Joker: Folie à Deux

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Ughhhhhhh…

Good morning blah blah ****

This movie hit me like an IPA called Juicey Locomotive!

The 1st one remains a masterpiece for me.

Joker 2.

I had to see it with my own eyes…I went in spoiler free but knew of the backlash obviously from hanging out in here.

I was hoping that I would interpret it differently than what was being described as a disastrous deconstruction of the character.

I didn’t interpret anything differently.

What a piece of ****!

Phillips, WTF dude like seriously.

That ending hnnnng.

It had potential to crescendo into super ruthless Joker but NOPE!!! :slap

My boy Phoenix was my favorite Joker in style and swagger.

Now he’s in one of the worst sequels ever.

Quick someone call FEMA to help Todd Phillips career…oh wait sorry Todd they’re broke you’re SOL!
I didn’t see the film.

I think the first is massively overrated

I have heard the spoilers

And IMO the ending sounds like the only good thing about the movie.

Now that’s my kind of Joker :)

I feel bad for all the peeps out there who spent a lot of money on Todd Philips “ Joker” statues. Yikes
 

Well, it least it made history lol....

In fact, Joker: Folie à Deux has been awarded a D CinemaScore by moviegoers. That's the worst rating for a comic book movie in CinemaScore history and means it places below Morbius (C+), Batman and Robin (C+), and 2015's Fantastic Four (C-). Even Madame Web got a C+.
 
if they cared about money, current star wars wouldn't exist.
current marvel wouldn't be where it is

those two prove Nick D. right. matrix 4 proves Nick D. right


star wars had problems even before COVID happened and they won't fix them. keep losing fans, keep losing money, keep pushing their weird ideas.

no they don't only care about profits. why does matrix 4 exist then?
They absolutely do care about money. And only money.

Star wars
-Disney bought the property. Tried to distill down star wars to its essence. Even George Lucas couldn't recapture the magic of his own trilogy in the prequels. They end up being wildly financially and critically successful with the force awakens. The biggest complaint was that it was too safe and too much of a retread of the original. They tried to correct things and give the audience what they wanted with the sequel, and brought in a director known for being subversive. The last jedi came out and was not as financially successful as they hoped - and there was piles of blowback from the fanbase. Disney then pivoted again to give the audience what they thought they wanted, and reverted back to being insanely safe, trying to undo everything the last jedi started- and it bombed even harder not appealing to anyone. Every step of that trilogy was an attempt to give the fanbase what it wanted, it being criticized, and the studio having no creative backbone and trying to just give the audience what it wanted. All they cared about was money- as they should. These studios and streamers for the most part dont actually care if they make "good" content. They only care if audiences like them and watch them. Thats why most netflix originals feel made in a lab by AI. They dont care if they make "good" content, they care if they can make content similar to other movies you liked so you will watch the new one they just made.

Artistic merit is something the creators care about, the writers, the directors etc. The studio may bend and give rope to the artists and let them do things they aren't crazy about, because they care most about putting that directors name in the marketing. This business is wildly cutthroat and all that matters is do you put asses in seats.

-Star wars since then has had ups and downs with its shows in terms of financial return. If what you're talking about is "wokeness" or something- the reason the studios, or any other company, leaned into that is because they thought there was money there. Also they were trying to appease the artists who make the all the content. For a long time companies couldn't grasp the difference between twitter outcry and actual reality. They thought everyone wanted things to be more "woke" due to social media metrics and so forth. As we are seeing now, companies are starting to pullback on the "woke" stuff because they're realizing its hurting their bottom line. Disney has come out as well as many other entertainment companies saying we are going to lean away from any perceived "messaging" in our content and get back to "entertaining"- aka were going to remove the "wokeness" from our future content. These things take a while to go into effect because the development process takes years so you wont see the changes immediately. They didn't lean into wokeness then lean away from it due to some moral inclination, they are just trying to follow the tide of where they think they can make a few more nickels. It's always the creators who are pushing the political narratives not the studio. The studios need to try to appease the creators, because they want big names attached to their projects to sell them. So if Joaquin Phoenix says I'm not going to be in your movie unless it has 'X' message, or Jordan Peele says I'm not going to make this movie unless it has "X" message, or Todd Phillips says I'm not going to make a joker sequel unless i can make it with "X" message- the studios will tend to bend a little because what they actually care about is the money those guys bring in the door.

Marvel- The same issues apply here. They are also the biggest success story in the history of movies. Their current issues are much more tied to losing focus after thanos and superhero fatigue, black panther is one of the most politically socially conscious marvel movies ever and also one of their most financially successful ones. Whatever "wokeness' you have percieved in their recent output will be going away soon.

Matrix 4 exists because the studio pinned its hopes that bringing back the original writer directors, and cast would lead to making money. The creators are the ones who chose to take it in a bizarre direction- and werent going to return unless they made the movie on their terms. At the end of the day studios ,and really no one, actually knows if any project is going to be successful. Everyone is just kind of guessing. Many people hated joker and thought it was awful, the studios didnt know it was going to be a hit. Thats why it had a small budget compared to other super hero movies- they were willing to take a calculated risk in financing an offbeat piece of content- and it should be said, it was incredibly difficult to get that movie funded. The studios are just always trying to limit their risk. So if the studio watched the first joker and said I dont know if this is going to be successful, but then its a huge hit, they are going to trust that the creators that made the first one knew what they were doing. You gave me 55 million for the first one and I made you a billion dollars. Trust that I know what the **** I am doing. The studios didnt know the first would be a hit or a bomb, so they also dont know if the second would be a hit or a bomb- all they know is that the team that made the first one made a billion dollars. We can invest more money there- and even if the second one bombs, atleast we can fallback on being able to market that the same team who made the first one is returning for the sequel, that will put asses in seats. It costs more money today to market a movie than actually make the movie. That's where we are at. The content is much less important than the ability to market it. Thats why everything is legacy sequels with the original cast and prequels. It has nothing to do with artist integrity, its about money. The artists are the ones with any sort of artistic integrity.

You need to recalibrate how you assume these things are produced.
 
They absolutely do care about money. And only money.

Star wars
-Disney bought the property. Tried to distill down star wars to its essence. Even George Lucas couldn't recapture the magic of his own trilogy in the prequels. They end up being wildly financially and critically successful with the force awakens. The biggest complaint was that it was too safe and too much of a retread of the original. They tried to correct things and give the audience what they wanted with the sequel, and brought in a director known for being subversive. The last jedi came out and was not as financially successful as they hoped - and there was piles of blowback from the fanbase. Disney then pivoted again to give the audience what they thought they wanted, and reverted back to being insanely safe, trying to undo everything the last jedi started- and it bombed even harder not appealing to anyone. Every step of that trilogy was an attempt to give the fanbase what it wanted, it being criticized, and the studio having no creative backbone and trying to just give the audience what it wanted. All they cared about was money- as they should. These studios and streamers for the most part dont actually care if they make "good" content. They only care if audiences like them and watch them. Thats why most netflix originals feel made in a lab by AI. They dont care if they make "good" content, they care if they can make content similar to other movies you liked so you will watch the new one they just made.

Artistic merit is something the creators care about, the writers, the directors etc. The studio may bend and give rope to the artists and let them do things they aren't crazy about, because they care most about putting that directors name in the marketing. This business is wildly cutthroat and all that matters is do you put asses in seats.

-Star wars since then has had ups and downs with its shows in terms of financial return. If what you're talking about is "wokeness" or something- the reason the studios, or any other company, leaned into that is because they thought there was money there. Also they were trying to appease the artists who make the all the content. For a long time companies couldn't grasp the difference between twitter outcry and actual reality. They thought everyone wanted things to be more "woke" due to social media metrics and so forth. As we are seeing now, companies are starting to pullback on the "woke" stuff because they're realizing its hurting their bottom line. Disney has come out as well as many other entertainment companies saying we are going to lean away from any perceived "messaging" in our content and get back to "entertaining"- aka were going to remove the "wokeness" from our future content. These things take a while to go into effect because the development process takes years so you wont see the changes immediately. They didn't lean into wokeness then lean away from it due to some moral inclination, they are just trying to follow the tide of where they think they can make a few more nickels. It's always the creators who are pushing the political narratives not the studio. The studios need to try to appease the creators, because they want big names attached to their projects to sell them. So if Joaquin Phoenix says I'm not going to be in your movie unless it has 'X' message, or Jordan Peele says I'm not going to make this movie unless it has "X" message, or Todd Phillips says I'm not going to make a joker sequel unless i can make it with "X" message- the studios will tend to bend a little because what they actually care about is the money those guys bring in the door.

Marvel- The same issues apply here. They are also the biggest success story in the history of movies. Their current issues are much more tied to losing focus after thanos and superhero fatigue, black panther is one of the most politically socially conscious marvel movies ever and also one of their most financially successful ones. Whatever "wokeness' you have percieved in their recent output will be going away soon.

Matrix 4 exists because the studio pinned its hopes that bringing back the original writer directors, and cast would lead to making money. The creators are the ones who chose to take it in a bizarre direction- and werent going to return unless they made the movie on their terms. At the end of the day studios ,and really no one, actually knows if any project is going to be successful. Everyone is just kind of guessing. Many people hated joker and thought it was awful, the studios didnt know it was going to be a hit. Thats why it had a small budget compared to other super hero movies- they were willing to take a calculated risk in financing an offbeat piece of content- and it should be said, it was incredibly difficult to get that movie funded. The studios are just always trying to limit their risk. So if the studio watched the first joker and said I dont know if this is going to be successful, but then its a huge hit, they are going to trust that the creators that made the first one knew what they were doing. You gave me 55 million for the first one and I made you a billion dollars. Trust that I know what the **** I am doing. The studios didnt know the first would be a hit or a bomb, so they also dont know if the second would be a hit or a bomb- all they know is that the team that made the first one made a billion dollars. We can invest more money there- and even if the second one bombs, atleast we can fallback on being able to market that the same team who made the first one is returning for the sequel, that will put asses in seats. It costs more money today to market a movie than actually make the movie. That's where we are at. The content is much less important than the ability to market it. Thats why everything is legacy sequels with the original cast and prequels. It has nothing to do with artist integrity, its about money. The artists are the ones with any sort of artistic integrity.

You need to recalibrate how you assume these things are produced.
the second that the last Jedi underperformed to the last one and got bad reviews, they could have course corrected.
why does the acolyte exist? it's not for money, no way. acolyte is not a project done for profit no way In hell.....

they literally say that they are hoping to change the way fans think ...... they literally say this.
 
Acolyte real budget: 320 million!

The Marvels real budget: 378 million budget!

I would rather give up Acolyte and The Marvels and give that money to the hurricane victims.
 
Phillips was literally trolling the audience

Wow, you're not kidding :lol

1728142769214.png
 
yes
So original script supposedly had Harley killing the Joker after he told her he was done with the persona.
yes and becoming the new joker
that's what I told ironwez. that was the rumor.

and I heard that James gunn requested the new ending
 
That would of been better then what we got cause people are saying it’s literally









Spoilers







Joker gets raped and killed in prison. Or Arthur or whatever

That’s pretty much the damn movie. What a mean spirited movie and a giant middle finger to the people that made it a success.

Crying that people idolized the joker. Dude. Nobody idolized him. People didn’t act like him. People enjoyed him being the villain.
But hey let’s not stop there. Let’s be shamed for liking a fictional villains from now on. Let’s make a darth Vader film where he’s constantly being beaten and berated by the people he hurt. And killed by the real darth Vader at the end. Yay!
 
That would of been better then what we got cause people are saying it’s literally









Spoilers







Joker gets raped and killed in prison. Or Arthur or whatever

That’s pretty much the damn movie. What a mean spirited movie and a giant middle finger to the people that made it a success.

Crying that people idolized the joker. Dude. Nobody idolized him. People didn’t act like him. People enjoyed him being the villain.
But hey let’s not stop there. Let’s be shamed for liking a fictional villains from now on. Let’s make a darth Vader film where he’s constantly being beaten and berated by the people he hurt. And killed by the real darth Vader at the end. Yay!
He was even disgusted by his followers :slap
 
That would of been better then what we got cause people are saying it’s literally









Spoilers







Joker gets raped and killed in prison. Or Arthur or whatever

That’s pretty much the damn movie. What a mean spirited movie and a giant middle finger to the people that made it a success.

Crying that people idolized the joker. Dude. Nobody idolized him. People didn’t act like him. People enjoyed him being the villain.
But hey let’s not stop there. Let’s be shamed for liking a fictional villains from now on. Let’s make a darth Vader film where he’s constantly being beaten and berated by the people he hurt. And killed by the real darth Vader at the end. Yay!

otTzHXs.jpeg
 
I genuinely don’t see how a single Joker fan or Batman fan for the matter, could finish this film without the feeling of wiping spit from their face.

It’s 100% a deconstruction of the character.

Just the same as Michael wearing a burnt mask covered in mold, being suplexed by a kid in high school. Or a 60 year old lady dropping a fridge on him while he squirms around like he did in H20 ( that was him when they were making it).

Or even having him parade around in broad daylight not even wearing the mask, showing half your face through it with a beard when it is on, screaming die as you die, making Laurie and Loomis, the two people out of this entire shitfest you’re meant to care about, insufferable a$$holes. The amount of screaming in that film, I’ll never view it again.

Joker 2, Halloween Ends and RZ H2 are absolutely not “artistic direction from offbeat stylistic conscious decision making”.

I don’t understand why fans appear blind to this, all three of these films were made out of spite for the fans, for the material,
for the character they themselves fabricated.

Deliberately withheld any Joker or Michael Myers scenes evocative of their character knowing you’re about to kill them off.

Rob Zombie -
Thought all the films before his were boring and garbage ( to his credit I agree with everything after 1981 HII), didn’t like how much influence the studio had over his first outting, nor the public’s or Carpenter’s response to it, reluctantly made the second film on his terms, not in good faith, but as a departing middle finger to the studios, fans, and franchise.

Green & Curtis -
Curtis has wanted him dead since HII.
Coming back for H20 because she was promised she could finish the job.
She signed on with Green under the stipulation that they’d kill him off.
He’s dead at the end of 2018 in the house fire, they just decided to milk the gullible fans who can’t say no, out of another two films because of it becoming the #1 grossing slasher of all time, at the time. Then Halloween Kills came around and people didn’t like it, so he changed the end of the trilogy completely out of spite sending Michael off in such a whimper that is too close for comfort in how Phillips dispatches Joker here.
I'd say it was more of a destruction of the character.
Seriously what the **** did I watch yesterday? If this version of the character was stopped by getting the Joker raped out of him then maybe it's a good thing Phillips never had him face off Batman, I don't think any of us would be able to recover from that.
 
Overweight middle aged cops too.
Yet in the first film he goes off on a rampage on Randall (a guy way bigger than him) simply because he lied and got him fired.
I don’t buy it, the film is garbage.
 
I just don’t buy it that Todd Phillips gave the middle finger to Warner Brothers.

I mean come on those dailies were watched every day no way Warner Brothers would’ve not stepped in and turned the ship around so the question remains, why did Warner Bros. approve this?
 
I just don’t buy it that Todd Phillips gave the middle finger to Warner Brothers.

I mean come on those dailies were watched every day no way Warner Brothers would’ve not stepped in and turned the ship around so the question remains, why did Warner Bros. approve this?

why did they approve matrix 4? in matrix 4 they literally insult the studio.
they literally have a wooden hand giving you the middle finger. they literally have a street sign saying " for those that love to eat poo"

matrix 4 literally has a scene mocking studio writers coming up with ideas for a matrix reboot.
 
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Imagine the outcry if it was Captain America that got raped and murdered in prison in Civil War.
 
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