Joker: Folie à Deux

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ironwez20 said:
Did you like the movie zach?
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I liked the performances, the cinematography and the score.

I really only liked one musical segment out of them all (Always a Joker).

The cartoon it opened up with I liked a lot.

The first two acts were pretty slow, and I feel like the musical segments bogged it down more but for the most part was enjoyable.

I did not like the fact that they had Arthur admit there never was a Joker, I don’t mind him dying though.

Overall very mixed but I feel like we could have got more to chew on without the musical segments and if Todd worked out the kinks of what he was trying to say in a different way, or without having the protagonist straight up say it while looking at the audience. We could have walked out of the film not liking Arthur/Joker and have him still be Joker.

I’d say it’s a solid 6.5-7/10, doesn’t even come close to the first film though.
 
MarkKing said:
I remember Marvel did that clone saga in the 90s and implied our Spiderman was the fake spiderman all along, and fans hated it and revolted.

This Fake Joker is the same. Gave us that incredible performance in 2019, and then this garbage that unalieved any more Joker movies...and did more hard than good

People will lose their jobs because of this. Selling toys and movie merch should have been the priority.

Would have loved to see a more fun loving Joker like yeah because you now want to sell merch...

Joker could have started becoming zany like the comics or BTAS but nope, they chose the WORST idea and went "that's it, let's go with that."
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which is crazy cause the first movie was considered for an oscar. How on earth do you mess up this bad? I heard so many people are walking out of this.
 
ZaCHw117 said:
I liked the performances, the cinematography and the score.

I really only liked one musical segment out of them all (Always a Joker).

The cartoon it opened up with I liked a lot.

The first two acts were pretty slow, and I feel like the musical segments bogged it down more but for the most part was enjoyable.

I did not like the fact that they had Arthur admit there never was a Joker, I don’t mind him dying though.

Overall very mixed but I feel like we could have got more to chew on without the musical segments and if Todd worked out the kinks of what he was trying to say in a different way, or without having the protagonist straight up say it while looking at the audience. We could have walked out of the film not liking Arthur/Joker and have him still be Joker.

I’d say it’s a solid 6.5-7/10, doesn’t even come close to the first film though.
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I didn't mind if it was a musical. Musicals can enahnce a story if done right. But the music was awful and the songs were stupid so yea I guess musical wasn;t a good choice.
 
ironwez20 said:
I didn't mind if it was a musical. Musicals can enahnce a story if done right. But the music was awful and the songs were stupid so yea I guess musical wasn;t a good choice.
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I’m not a fan of musicals at all, but I was prepared to give this one a shot considering how much I like the first film. I was actually surprised I liked one of the segments, and a bit surprised how little of it there actually was. After Gaga was cast I was thinking it might singing from start to finish.
 
ZaCHw117 said:
And that film became a cult classic. :lol
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no, nononono no no
no no
I'm not talking about the quality of this piece of trash lol :ROFLMAO:

I'm talking about people worshipping villains
dexter had the same problem.
I'm talking about the show runner of Dexter having a problem with people falling in love with Dexter

or people praising the guy in clockwork orange

I'm sure there are others.
 
i
Wor-Gar said:
Uh... people love Hannibal Lecter.
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I don't know what the book writer has said or the movie director
I might Google it. yes that's a other example.

like how women love and have crushes on the bad guy from house of 1000 corpses
rob zombie and that actor say that women really love him.
 
crows said:
I needed to watch it to join the conversation and to see what the fuzz was about,
but I wish I never saw it. it's a gross movie to watch. it's boring. and the musicals are extremely annoying. it's too long.
BUT
Joaquin Phoenix does an amazing job. lady gagu does really excellent outside of the singing.
the court scenes are good
I say yeah, if you don't care about the problems yeah.

it's just trying to insult you so much. by the way they treat Arthur. they remove all the good things he had.



I guess that joker shooting a beloved night show host on live tv couldn't go unpunished.

you could not have this character go unpunished.
deniro was innocent. he was an innocent victim
I don't care how rude he was or how old. or how annoying.

deniro didn't deserve that. that scene needed to have consequences and punishment.
Todd Phillips put himself in a corner because he made that scene to shock audiences

but people in today's era weren't shocked.
they were happy.
people cheered or laugh at the deniro scene.


no it wasn't because they cut like 60% of her scenes
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Yeah, I think I mainly would just like to be able to join in the conversation more. :lol I might try and find a bootleg.
 
crows said:
no, nononono no no
no no
I'm not talking about the quality of this piece of trash lol :ROFLMAO:

I'm talking about people worshipping villains
dexter had the same problem.
I'm talking about the show runner of Dexter having a problem with people falling in love with Dexter

or people praising the guy in clockwork orange

I'm sure there are others.
Click to expand...
It’s probably because villains are much more relatable and have more genuine traits than some perfect dude in blue pajama’s saving the world… again.
 
Wor-Gar said:
Dracula is a sex symbol. Dracula....
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What?
I'm shocked! Shocked!

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shocked philip j fry GIF
 

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Gonna split this post in two - firstly why people like villains.....

People often like villains for really simple reasons - because they are powerful, often intelligent, and well-written characters with interesting motivations and stories with a pro-active/dynamic approach who set the plot in motion for the hero to react to, they are taboo and openly flaunt the rules that rigidly confine society - they also often get the coolest dialogue and scenes and character design.
A villain IS the plot of most stories, they ARE the movie/book/show/game - so if you enjoy the property, more often than not its at least partially due to the villain.
 
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Secondly - why this discourse of "why do people like villains" can be read too much into and cause self-created problems for critics and creatives, and why I think this impacted Joker.

So people like villains,
It doesn't mean people are secretly psychos and losers who want to watch the world burn and the idea that the masses need to be educated and uplifted/enlightened by content-creators and members of the literati has been debunked on a societal level more times than I can fathom.
Watching Tarantino movies doesn't encourage people into a life of crime, watching horror movies doesn't make serial killers, enjoying Hopkins performance as Hannibal Lecter doesn't make someone a cannibal, liking Darth Vader doesn't make people into space-fascists and enjoying the Joker as a character and perhaps even feeling a degree of empathy doesn't make someone a crazed anarchist.

I thought we all collectively got over this hurdle with the insane critical reaction and fear-mongering spread about the first film before its release...
and the audience I believe did get over it because, being rational and decent ordinary people who actually understand human nature and dont view their fellow humans as impressionable sheep who will follow whatever example is shown to them, they dismissed this fear-mongering hysteria by the critical class as the ******** it was.

Sadly it seems Phillips bought this hysterical school of thought hook-line-and-sinker.
This movie seems to be made with one purpose only = to "correct" the "mistakes" made by the last film in making the Joker character remotely relatable or sympathetic as clearly this is creating a false idol of deviance for the gullible masses to adopt as a symbol and it is the duty of the content-creator class to educate the masses on why a man who kills people is bad and we are bad for remotely liking him in a film that was crafted specifically to help audiences empathize with the character...
Because clearly an audience with such a capacity for empathy and sympathy are all ready to be moulded into psychopaths, incels and whathaveyou.
So the solution? deconstruct everything that drew people to the previous film's iteration of the character and furthermore deconstruct the fanbase itself with an audience surrogate....
Its just insulting at this point and betrays a condescending attitude from the director and writers.
 
ironwez20 said:
yay another scarred joker and this time he's ugly as sin
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Yeah, this is another design I'm not in love with - I think Barry Keoghan has an uncanny enough appearance that these prosthetics are just way too much, he is a good actor and it would be a shame to bury his appearance under all this.
They could easily just skip this design and frankly I think people wouldn't care, it was only mostly visible in a single deleted scene and in the stinger its pretty much just BK voice you can hear.
 

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