1/6 Hot Toys - TMS141 - The Clone Wars: Clone Commander Wolffe

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@TheClient

If we’re using your logic, then the HT 501st shouldn’t have brought a black helmet band. The visor should’ve been pointy and not rounded at the bridge. The mouth vent should’ve been more flat/thicker. Among other details present on the animated TCW design. All of these things to match “his actual onscreen appearance”.

Note: The HT 501st is a TCW branded clone.

4CA926DD-D5B8-497E-8572-642F5CA6EC28.jpeg
 
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Man, this discussion of inaccuracy vs accuracy happens on legitimately every thread regarding a clone, and it's truthfully tiring for me. That said, as you are complaining, there obviously are things that are not truthful to a live-action imagining. I'm just thankful I'm not part of the crowd that really notices that stuff. When Wolffe eventually gets home to me, if he does, I know I'm good without any further accuracy mods.
 
Man, this discussion of inaccuracy vs accuracy happens on legitimately every thread regarding a clone, and it's truthfully tiring for me. That said, as you are complaining, there obviously are things that are not truthful to a live-action imagining. I'm just thankful I'm not part of the crowd that really notices that stuff. When Wolffe eventually gets home to me, if he does, I know I'm good without any further accuracy mods.
It’s just something I’ve noticed or picked up on ever since I was a kid when I watched the 2008 Clone Wars film opening night on the big screen (in my mid-twenties now). I realized/deduced the differences between the animated and live-action designs when I’d refer back to ROTS/AOTC. I just know it like the back of my hand lol. It’s not like I’m over here fixating or stressing myself out, finding out about all this. What others and I here are arguing (“complaining” in your words) isn’t misguided or incorrect. It’s objective.

And yeah that’s cool if you’re content with the current figure (that’s wrong for live-action). I hope HT makes ROTS Neyo (ROTS clone commanders/clones in general) one day. Only then could it possibly click for you and others.
 
It’s just something I’ve noticed or picked up on ever since I was a kid when I watched the 2008 Clone Wars film opening night on the big screen (in my mid-twenties now). I realized/deduced the differences between the animated and live-action designs when I’d refer back to ROTS/AOTC. I just know it like the back of my hand lol. It’s not like I’m over here fixating or stressing myself out, finding out about all this. What others and I here are arguing (“complaining” in your words) isn’t misguided or incorrect. It’s objective.

And yeah that’s cool if you’re content with the current figure (that’s wrong for live-action). I hope HT makes ROTS Neyo (ROTS clone commanders/clones in general) one day. Only then could it possibly click for you and others.
Ah, I did not mean complaining in the negative sense, more like a "this is wrong and I don't really like they did this"-complaint, which is the vibe I am getting.

For me, it's not a matter of it clicking, but more just not caring enough about clones, (I'm in SW for the lightsabers) unfortunately, and never seeing any results from fan feedback (think the outcry from mk 85s updated sculpt was a result of chinese fans complaining, for example). That said I'll always support anyone clamoring for more accuracy, we do deserve it for this price point.

I was all set on getting a Commander Bly-type pauldron for Rex and all, but seeing his pauldron in Ahsoka made me handwave it in my head as "ah military variances in gear". I can extend the same thought to Wolffes helmet here as well.
 
You already admitted HT blend realistic and animated which is what we are pointing out. By blending it is not accurate to realistic nor animated designs, it is the lesser of its parts
Never said they didn't. I know very well that is what they do.

It just seems to me that Wolffe's helmet is a special case. Unique design, never ever appeared outside the cartoon, and imagining a "live-action" appearance requires a little logic and deduction. It can be done, and I get what you are saying, but I don't know why anyone expected Hot Toys to do that. You consider it a failure on their part, ok. I consider it a pragmatic choice.

Black headband or no black headband, if you take away the "nose grill" from Wolffe that makes a pretty big difference in the overall look, imo. Might as well stick closer to the version Wolffe fans have seen before.
 
notice that the HT has the animated style of chin piece and thick visor like animation for example. then there is the "mouth and teeth" that is again from the animation

View attachment 745819
View attachment 745821
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D Woon customs for an example of how Rex and Wolffe should look. realistic helmets, pauldron, kamas etc

View attachment 745830
I appreciate you posting all of this because at least now I see what the other side of this argument is getting at.

In no way does it change my mind about buying, I still think the figure looks stellar and none of the inaccuracies feel like a big problem to me. He's going to look stellar on the shelf with all of the other Clones and after having him for a week I doubt I'll even think about the last of black band or the mouthpiece or whatever.

At the end of the day I'm grateful I don't find myself in the crowd that little things like that don't matter to, but I did want to thank you for the detailed breakdown on what your griping about.
 
@TheClient

If we’re using your logic, then the HT 501st shouldn’t have brought a black helmet band. The visor should’ve been pointy and not rounded at the bridge. The mouth vent should’ve been more flat/thicker. Among other details present on the animated TCW design. All of these things to match “his actual onscreen appearance”.

Note: The HT 501st is a TCW branded clone.

View attachment 745899
Wow I just realized that the 332nd deluxe helmet does not have the black band, even though these are presumably the same helmet with different paint jobs? That's quite a compromise, lol.
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I was all set on getting a Commander Bly-type pauldron for Rex and all, but seeing his pauldron in Ahsoka made me handwave it in my head as "ah military variances in gear". I can extend the same thought to Wolffes helmet here as well.
This is wrong though.. lol. That’s just a matter of Disney Lucasfilm not knowing. I mean, they're the ones who placed backwards armor pieces on Ahsoka Rex for crying out loud. There isn’t supposed to be variance in gear, but if that helps making it sense in your head. All I’ll say, is that this line of thinking is not precise.
Never said they didn't. I know very well that is what they do.

It just seems to me that Wolffe's helmet is a special case. Unique design, never ever appeared outside the cartoon, and imagining a "live-action" appearance requires a little logic and deduction. It can be done, and I get what you are saying, but I don't know why anyone expected Hot Toys to do that. You consider it a failure on their part, ok. I consider it a pragmatic choice.

Black headband or no black headband, if you take away the "nose grill" from Wolffe that makes a pretty big difference in the overall look, imo. Might as well stick closer to the version Wolffe fans have seen before.
Wow I just realized that the 332nd deluxe helmet does not have the black band, even though these are presumably the same helmet with different paint jobs? That's quite a compromise, lol.
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You still really haven’t answered the question yet though. You claim since we haven’t seen Wolffe in live-action, then therefore we shouldn’t have expected Hot Toys to base it on a design-never-before seen. But why is it that you accept those live-action elements for the other clone figures? Just because they HAVE had an appearance outside the cartoon? Imo, this is picking and choosing and flawed logic. Wouldn’t the same treatment be applied to everyone? If Hot Toys are taking the design elements from live-action clones for their CW based clone trooper figures, they should be doing that for all. Why only select clones? When you take a step back, you’ll find that all clones have base armor that most troopers share, and yeah you then have specialty designs that are cross-shared as well. Wolffe’s helmet is unique, no question, but aside from what makes his own helmet unique, everything else should’ve been the same.

I guess I’m just not sure why you’re giving some preferential treatment but you don’t with others like Wolffe.

On the black headband topic, you also don’t have a problem with how Wolffe doesn’t have it? Literally every other clone does – they’re supposed to…. And I had a feeling you’d bring up the Ahsoka painted 332nd bucket, but that doesn’t count. In the story, that can easily be chalked up to the fact that the 501st clones painted over it so it’s all orange. You can’t possibly tell me otherwise. Those guys wouldn’t have carefully avoided painting the band, and they wanted their buckets to match Ahsoka’s skin tone to “convey” her whole face so it makes sense they simply painted over them.
 
You still really haven’t answered the question yet though. You claim since we haven’t seen Wolffe in live-action, then therefore we shouldn’t have expected Hot Toys to base it on a design-never-before seen. But why is it that you accept those live-action elements for the other clone figures? Just because they HAVE had an appearance outside the cartoon? Imo, this is picking and choosing and flawed logic. Wouldn’t the same treatment be applied to everyone? If Hot Toys are taking the design elements from live-action clones for their CW based clone trooper figures, they should be doing that for all. Why only select clones? When you take a step back, you’ll find that all clones have base armor that most troopers share, and yeah you then have specialty designs that are cross-shared as well. Wolffe’s helmet is unique, no question, but aside from what makes his own helmet unique, everything else should’ve been the same.

I guess I’m just not sure why you’re giving some preferential treatment but you don’t with others like Wolffe.

On the black headband topic, you also don’t have a problem with how Wolffe doesn’t have it? Literally every other clone does – they’re supposed to…. And I had a feeling you’d bring up the Ahsoka painted 332nd bucket, but that doesn’t count. In the story, that can easily be chalked up to the fact that the 501st clones painted over it so it’s all orange. You can’t possibly tell me otherwise. Those guys wouldn’t have carefully avoided painting the band, and they wanted their buckets to match Ahsoka’s skin tone to “convey” her whole face so it makes sense they simply painted over them.
I'm not talking about other clones. I'm not even talking about the rest of Wolffe's armor. Only his helmet. The only reason I waded into this is because I saw people complaining that Wolffe's helmet looked too much like the source material, and I thought I was going crazy. I wanted to understand. Now I do.

It looks like Hot Toys is taking an approach just like you describe: live-action takes precedence, and if no canon reference for that particular character is available, use what is. We saw 501st in ROTS, so let's use that design. We did not see the Ahsoka helmets outside of the cartoon, so we'll use the cartoon as reference. Simple. (Yes, you could say the headband was painted orange, but the back would have had to be repainted gray as well. I did not bring this up as a "gotcha", it was just something funny I had not noticed until this discussion).

Should Hot Toys put more thought into this process? Probably. And I understand being disappointed. But I still don't understand being incredulous. I don't have much else to say on the subject.

Anyway, I'll dip out, but thanks for all the helpful info. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays, everybody!
 
Wolffe is up with Kit. $297.

$280 at Sideshow - you can add like another $40 in tax and shipping, plus the long wait for the boat. Highly recommend buying through Kit, if you haven't bought yet.
 
It’s already been discussed and I had deleted my post before cause I was wanted to touch up my rough edit of what a Hot Toys live-action Wolffe Phase 2 helmet could’ve looked like, more or less on the left vs stock on the right.

But here it is (Yes, I used my iPhone photos app editing tool lol)
EC30E53C-F1EC-4D73-A1CF-5893671B1BEB.jpeg




It’s been observed thanks to @jaztermareal but just wanted to reiterate the following:

• Addition of black helmet band (all HT clone figures have this, even stock Wolffe should’ve had it as well……). This is a typical/standard detail that ALL live-action clones share.
• Visor redesign in the center matching ROTS Neyo. Thinner lens, thinner trim piece with addition of bridge. Wolffe’s inner visor spikes remain.
• Redesigned “frown” mouth matching ROTS Neyo with “shark tooth” vents. The entire lower mouth section has been elongated slightly with the frown sitting higher on the “face” of the helmet just like ROTS Neyo.
• Redesigned rounded chin opening matching ROTS Neyo.

Open to interpretation – 104th Battalion markings. Because the bottom half was elongated, I felt appropriate to lengthen the white painted spikes further down.

I know most will disagree that this is how Hot Toys P2 Wolffe should’ve looked like, but when considering all the facts and source material, on the left is what he would’ve looked like if translated properly (more or less).

IMO, if they use other live-action elements for other HT TCW based clone figures, they (including Disney Lucasfilm) should’ve done their due diligence and recreated him in this manner. Also, IMO, he just looks more badass. It looks better. It feels better. The design isn’t as angled and wacky since it’s in line with live-action and not the animated model for Wolffe!

That’s all, folks :nana:

Edit: I hope this ends up getting the message across. Looks like @TheClient is dipping out, and that’s cool! I get it, most of this discourse is annoying to most even if what’s being said is how it should’ve been...for live-action.. lol

Merry Christmas, sincerely!!
 
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It’s already been discussed and I had deleted my post before cause I was wanted to touch up my rough edit of what a Hot Toys live-action Wolffe Phase 2 helmet could’ve looked like, more or less on the left vs stock on the right.

But here it is (Yes, I used my iPhone photos app editing tool lol)
View attachment 745954




It’s been observed thanks to @jaztermareal but just wanted to reiterate the following:

• Addition of black helmet band (all HT clone figures have this, even stock Wolffe should’ve had it as well……). This is a typical/standard detail that ALL live-action clones share.
• Visor redesign in the center matching ROTS Neyo. Thinner lens, thinner trim piece with addition of bridge. Wolffe’s inner visor spikes remain.
• Redesigned “frown” mouth matching ROTS Neyo with “shark tooth” vents. The entire lower mouth section has been elongated slightly with the frown sitting higher on the “face” of the helmet just like ROTS Neyo.
• Redesigned rounded chin opening matching ROTS Neyo.

Open to interpretation – 104th Battalion markings. Because the bottom half was elongated, I felt appropriate to lengthen the white painted spikes further down.

I know most will disagree that this is how Hot Toys P2 Wolffe should’ve looked like, but when considering all the facts and source material, on the left is what he would’ve looked like if translated properly (more or less).

IMO, if they use other live-action elements for other HT TCW based clone figures, they (including Disney Lucasfilm) should’ve done their due diligence and recreated him in this manner. Also, IMO, he just looks more badass. It looks better. It feels better. The design isn’t as angled and wacky since it’s in line with live-action and not the animated model for Wolffe!

That’s all, folks :nana:
Okay, just one more reply.

This is a good representation of what you wanted, thank you. If Hot Toys were to see this and use your design, would they owe you money? Would they be opening themselves and Lucasfilm to a lawsuit for manufacturing and selling your design?

If this illustration does not exist in the Lucasfilm archives, created by a Lucasfilm employee under a legal agreement with Lucasfilm, are they legally allowed to use it as the basis for a figure?

Just wondering.
 
This is wrong though.. lol. That’s just a matter of Disney Lucasfilm not knowing. I mean, they're the ones who placed backwards armor pieces on Ahsoka Rex for crying out loud. There isn’t supposed to be variance in gear, but if that helps making it sense in your head. All I’ll say, is that this line of thinking is not precise.
Yeah that's a fair point regarding the backwards armor, but my line of thinking is good enough for me.
 
Okay, just one more reply.

This is a good representation of what you wanted, thank you. If Hot Toys were to see this and use your design, would they owe you money? Would they be opening themselves and Lucasfilm to a lawsuit for manufacturing and selling your design?

If this illustration does not exist in the Lucasfilm archives, created by a Lucasfilm employee under a legal agreement with Lucasfilm, are they legally allowed to use it as the basis for a figure?

Just wondering.
No problem.

But hmm, I don’t think I ever disputed as to the “why” the stock figure looks the way it does. I do understand why it’s the way it is, and it’s because they, as in Hot Toys and Disney Lucasfilm, simply don’t understand OG Lucasfilm Prequels designs, especially when not apparently or readily shown, like you mentioned earlier.

I was merely pointing out this is what the helmet should’ve looked like IF both Hot Toys and Disney Lucasfilm done their research.

For the most part, if a clone trooper has additional accessories beyond their standard armor, most of these TMS TCW based figures are interpreted wrong, but it’s due to them not understanding the translation. There’s no such thing as variance here. And both Hot Toys and Disney Lucasfilm should’ve known that. That’s why I keep saying that if Hot Toys ends up diving into the ROTS line and make clone commanders with pauldrons and kamas or Neyo himself, they’ll be correctly live-action based (already seeing that with the “Legends” Appo figure) but you’d have inconsistency. I harp on this because most collectors think what Hot Toys are producing are meant for live-action. Nah, they’re animated based.

I also keep reiterating that they ‘pick and choose’, taking certain things that they know from the live-action, but they don’t with others just cause they weren’t shown? If they thought about it a little longer, they would have realized certain designs were intended to be the same. Sure, some things would’ve been left to creative liberty but not the entire thing!

I know you solely wanted to talk about Wolffe, but like I said before, it’s the same concept here with other clones that are seen in ROTS.

I’ve even heard the argument that there’s different pauldron types. Erm, no… case in point below:

D2D8FA2D-B2D9-46D8-8CC6-237552AE1606.jpeg


Here we have Aayla Secura and Commander Bly during their Felucia campaign in both animation (TCW S7) and live-action (ROTS). If the Hot Toys clones figures are “realistic” and using live-action armor (MMS Cody), then everything else should also match, like the pauldron in this instance.

I’m all over the place now, but just wanna drive the point home.

We saw both Wolffe and Neyo together in TCW. Looks like they were good buds, and sharing the same base helmet.

8476EA2C-BC16-4454-82F3-E195AF5C3CE7.jpeg


What I’m trying to say is that Hot Toys and Disney Lucasfilm should’ve done their due diligence. Ideally, yes, they should’ve designed an official model for what these clone characters would’ve looked like to house in their archives. At this point in time, I understand it’s most likely a lost cause. It’s completely f*cked now given the fact how they botch designs all over their licensed and official media like Battlefront games, the Ahsoka show, even Hasbro merchandise, etc.

I guess I’d appreciate if these things were at least acknowledged and not berated upon. or making excuses for erroneous designs and design intent.

In conclusion lol, back to your remark if I should expect any royalties.. no, I wouldn’t. I just hoped Hot Toys and Disney Lucasfilm put some respect on the OG prequels designs and cared to properly translate them. Would’ve been a win-win for all, IMO. And imo, fans and collectors would’ve been like: ohhhh, that’s how Fox/Wolffe/etc, would’ve looked like if they were in Revenge of the Sith, in the “real life movies”! “That’s how Wolffe would’ve liked like battling alongside Plo as we see him in the Prequels.” And so on. Would’ve been a sweet lightbulb aha moment. A small epiphany (lol) I personally experienced when I was like 10.

I’m out.
 
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It’s already been discussed and I had deleted my post before cause I was wanted to touch up my rough edit of what a Hot Toys live-action Wolffe Phase 2 helmet could’ve looked like, more or less on the left vs stock on the right.

But here it is (Yes, I used my iPhone photos app editing tool lol)
View attachment 745954




It’s been observed thanks to @jaztermareal but just wanted to reiterate the following:

• Addition of black helmet band (all HT clone figures have this, even stock Wolffe should’ve had it as well……). This is a typical/standard detail that ALL live-action clones share.
• Visor redesign in the center matching ROTS Neyo. Thinner lens, thinner trim piece with addition of bridge. Wolffe’s inner visor spikes remain.
• Redesigned “frown” mouth matching ROTS Neyo with “shark tooth” vents. The entire lower mouth section has been elongated slightly with the frown sitting higher on the “face” of the helmet just like ROTS Neyo.
• Redesigned rounded chin opening matching ROTS Neyo.

Open to interpretation – 104th Battalion markings. Because the bottom half was elongated, I felt appropriate to lengthen the white painted spikes further down.

I know most will disagree that this is how Hot Toys P2 Wolffe should’ve looked like, but when considering all the facts and source material, on the left is what he would’ve looked like if translated properly (more or less).

IMO, if they use other live-action elements for other HT TCW based clone figures, they (including Disney Lucasfilm) should’ve done their due diligence and recreated him in this manner. Also, IMO, he just looks more badass. It looks better. It feels better. The design isn’t as angled and wacky since it’s in line with live-action and not the animated model for Wolffe!

That’s all, folks :nana:

Edit: I hope this ends up getting the message across. Looks like @TheClient is dipping out, and that’s cool! I get it, most of this discourse is annoying to most even if what’s being said is how it should’ve been...for live-action.. lol

Merry Christmas, sincerely!!
I have have to say as a less invested detail orientated person your edit is actually way better and more badass looking, the thinner visor really stands out
 
I have have to say as a less invested detail orientated person your edit is actually way better and more badass looking, the thinner visor really stands out
Thanks man! ‘Preciate it. I agree he looks more badass.

For things like this, I should just get Photoshop or something vs my edit lmao. But yeah Hot Toys went overboard with the thick visor..
 
What I’m trying to say is that Hot Toys and Disney Lucasfilm should’ve done their due diligence. Ideally, yes, they should’ve designed an official model for what these clone characters would’ve looked like to house in their archives.
Actually, I think they did have such references but most arent public. One was made for Captain Rex for example when they were designing him. They started with a AOTC/ROTS accurate render then translated it to animated. will share pic if I can find where I saved it



EDIT: Here it is. This is what Rex looked like before they ever made the cartoon design. ROTS accurate pauldron and kama. AOTC accurate helmet. Likely the same thing exists for Wolffe it just hasn't been shown to public yet.
photo_2024-12-24_18-24-30.jpg
 
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Actually, I think they did have such references but most arent public. One was made for Captain Rex for example when they were designing him. They started with a AOTC accurate render then translated it to animated. will share pic if I can find where I saved it
I would love to see that.

Not bang on fan-made renderings here, but oh, what could’ve been..
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5ED90A20-8797-4F77-BBC0-5BAA4A171325.jpeg
EDB0A988-D608-423E-9A11-50E002D9B16B.jpeg
 
edited my post above to show it. funnily enough you posted an edited version of it. not sure where your edit is from, wonder if that was a v2 from lucasfilm??


Edit again: They did the same with Durge. they started with realistic design that made into a realistic Maquette before it was then translated into the cartoon style. so there is 2 examples, Rex and Durge
 
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