1/6 Hot Toys Rogue One: JYN ERSO

[Cocoboloboy]

The new novel, Catalyst, doesn't shed much light on her character either unfortunately. Gives a nice background of her parents and Krennick and gives you a decent idea of what her motivation probably is though.

 

[DBoz]

I just hate the word..that's right Hate. When I hear that name I think of some dumb blonde hillbilly not a role model empowered woman for girls to look up too. Wish they would make another label for the term

Have no clue why that moronic term ever got popular in the SW universe

The origin of the term "Mary Sue" is actually kind of interesting. It came out of a Star Trek short fan fiction. You can find it if you google it. Kind of interesting to know where it came from.

I agree, though. It is way overused these days and applied to characters that it shouldn't be.

 

[guyver1]

The origin of the term "Mary Sue" is actually kind of interesting. It came out of a Star Trek short fan fiction. You can find it if you google it. Kind of interesting to know where it came from.

I agree, though. It is way overused these days and applied to characters that it shouldn't be.

The usage doesn't bother me, just hate the name..why can't they use Eva, Helen or something more prestigious

 

[WesMordine]

Turning out to be a difficult subject to get a feel for.

You'd want that, wouldn't you?

XD

 

[DBoz]

The usage doesn't bother me, just hate the name..why can't they use Eva, Helen or something more prestigious

Mary Sue was the name of the character in the Star Trek fan fic that started it all. By the way, the story is only like 1 page long and is a satire on the way most fan fiction was written at the time.

 

[guyver1]

Mary Sue was the name of the character in the Star Trek fan fic that started it all. By the way, the story is only like 1 page long and is a satire on the way most fan fiction was written at the time.

Star Trek huh..okay now I got to google this. Can't believe someone would link Star Trek with SW..that's like a cardinal sin

 

[screamingmetal]

Sure, in its most base argument, my problem with it is that for any Star Wars fan to throw around "Mary Sue" around at a Star Wars protagonist, whether it's Rey or Jyn, is lazy and rooted in stupid gender politics. Why?

Because Luke was the the original "Mary Sue" or "Marty Stus" and I never hear that argument made.

Yeah it's my first post and I called bulk***** on somebody. Doesn't make my point any less valid.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't want to derail this thread so I'll make this brief.

Rey grows up as a scavenger, she might know something about engineering but not believably where she knows how to fix the Falcon as easily as she does, even better than Han and Chewie it seems. She also shouldn't know how well to fly the Falcon as she does but she can fly that thing in battle better than trained TIE pilots, she does even better than Han's maneuvers of listing lazily to the left. She is force sensitive but she can fight and defeat a trained albeit wounded Sith with a lightsaber.

Luke has flown his T-16 on Tatooine for a while, so he at least has a history of flying. Luke also gets shot down in the battle of Hoth. He's trained briefly by Obi-Wan and later by Yoda in the Force and with a lightsaber, yet he losses to Vader in his first fight while on Bespin. Luke also gets his #*s handed to him by the Emperor. Luke's win in the battle of Yavin is a bit of a stretch, but he does use the Force so there's at least that.

I don't happen to believe Rey totally fits the term myself because she's Force sensitive, but I can see how the character is seen that way as opposed to Luke by others.

 

[Username]

I'd have to say from my understanding of the trope(And SW in general), that it can never be applied to a force sensitive character, surely? With what Jedi can do, it's not a real world analogue.

 

[screamingmetal]

Star Trek huh..okay now I got to google this. Can't believe someone would link Star Trek with SW..that's like a cardinal sin

The odds of that are 2228.7 to 1.

 

[ZE_501]

Rey grows up as a scavenger, she might know something about engineering but not believably where she knows how to fix the Falcon as easily as she does, even better than Han and Chewie it seems. She also shouldn't know how well to fly the Falcon as she does but she can fly that thing in battle better than trained TIE pilots, she does even better than Han's maneuvers of listing lazily to the left. She is force sensitive but she can fight and defeat a trained albeit wounded Sith with a lightsaber.

You can argue that Kylo was *very* badly wounded, and had already scrapped a bit with Finn. Rey clearly knew how to fight with a weapon as evidenced by her use of the staff to fight off thugs on Jakku. It's possible she had some kind of experience with staves or swords similar to a lightsaber.

She worked for the Falcon's last owner for long enough to know what he'd done to it, and may have had some experience fixing machines. Her piloting ability is the biggest stretch, but we don't know how much training she's had and been suppressed, or how strong in the Force she actually is.

Luke has flown his T-16 on Tatooine for a while, so he at least has a history of flying.

Just as she had history with weapons, prior knowledge of the Falcon, and possible mechanical experience. Also consider that flying a civilian craft during peacetime is categorically different from flying a fully-loaded combat fighter while under fire from turrets and enemy fighters with trained and presumably experienced combat pilots, not to mention Vader himself, a veteran and one of the best pilots in the galaxy.

Luke also gets shot down in the battle of Hoth. He's trained briefly by Obi-Wan and later by Yoda in the Force and with a lightsaber, yet he losses to Vader in his first fight while on Bespin. Luke also gets his #*s handed to him by the Emperor. Luke's win in the battle of Yavin is a bit of a stretch, but he does use the Force so there's at least that.

We don't yet know what trials Rey will face in Ep. 8 and 9.

I don't happen to believe Rey totally fits the term myself because she's Force sensitive, but I can see how the character is seen that way as opposed to Luke by others.

While I see what you're trying to say, and agree that the piloting is a stretch, I cite the above for why I think Luke and Rey are both Mary Sue's, give or take The Power of the Force.

 

[guyver1]

I don't want to derail this thread so I'll make this brief.

Rey grows up as a scavenger, she might know something about engineering but not believably where she knows how to fix the Falcon as easily as she does, even better than Han and Chewie it seems. She also shouldn't know how well to fly the Falcon as she does but she can fly that thing in battle better than trained TIE pilots, she does even better than Han's maneuvers of listing lazily to the left. She is force sensitive but she can fight and defeat a trained albeit wounded Sith with a lightsaber.

Luke has flown his T-16 on Tatooine for a while, so he at least has a history of flying. Luke also gets shot down in the battle of Hoth. He's trained briefly by Obi-Wan and later by Yoda in the Force and with a lightsaber, yet he losses to Vader in his first fight while on Bespin. Luke also gets his #*s handed to him by the Emperor. Luke's win in the battle of Yavin is a bit of a stretch, but he does use the Force so there's at least that.

I don't happen to believe Rey totally fits the term myself because she's Force sensitive, but I can see how the character is seen that way as opposed to Luke by others.

I will argue the point that it was strange that Rey knows so much..how did she know so much about Starkiller base like hiding in that scene and being able to unlock the corridor if she was a scavenger on another planet. It was also crazy that she knew how to use a light saber faster than Luke .

How to fix the falcon was strange as well. Everything came so naturally to her that was so bizarre.

Now to Jyn, I can't see her following in the exact same footsteps. Disney isn't stupid. No way would they want the fans to start thinking that Disney is making SW " Jump The Shark " with a character.

I think Jyn will not be a Mary Sue

 

[ZE_501]

I will argue the point that it was strange that Rey knows so much..how did she know so much about Starkiller base like hiding in that scene and being able to unlock the corridor if she was a scavenger on another planet.
How to fix the falcon was strange as well. Everything came so naturally to her that was so bizarre.
[...]

She would have been pretty familiar with Imperial architecture and hardware -- albeit decades old -- from her time spent inside old battleship hulks on Jakku. I suggested above she had prior knowledge of the Falcon since it was her employer's ship, and obviously had melee weapons training.

It's the combat flying that I find beyond explanation other than extreme Force-iness.

 

[guyver1]

She would have been pretty familiar with Imperial architecture and hardware -- albeit decades old -- from her time spent inside old battleship hulks on Jakku. I suggested above she had prior knowledge of the Falcon since it was her employer's ship, and obviously had melee weapons training.

It's the combat flying that I find beyond explanation other than extreme Force-iness.

But didn't she tell Finn she flew ships but never off the planet. Who'd give her a ship to fly

 

[ZE_501]

But didn't she tell Finn she flew ships but never off the planet. Who'd give her a ship to fly

Coulda flown transports for jobs. She was poor, but not a slave.

 

[guyver1]

Coulda flown transports for jobs. She was poor, but not a slave.

That's why Rey was such an interesting character. She grew up by herself. Luke had his Uncle and Aunt, Anakin had the mom. Rey had no one and she was more than capable of leaving Jakku anytime she wanted, but stayed because she thought her family was coming back.

And we still don't know everything about her. It's really intriguing to know if she is supposed to be evil or not. I think EP VIII will be the turning point. Hope they do it right.

For Jyn, if she is just a one shot character, I'm fine with it..if she doesn't have force powers, there is no reason to keep her around in the SW universe

 

[screamingmetal]

Good points ZE_501 and I agree. What I loved most about Finn was he did screw up and wasn't the perfect hero, hopefully Rey has some more grounding experiences in Ep VIII! I don't see Jyn as a Mary Sue either Guyver1, way too soon to judge anything yet!
Now lets look at this:

View attachment 305651

View attachment 305652

Oh and this!

It was a dirty job, but I was willing to step and search for photos of Felicity's derrière...

 

[guyver1]

Good points ZE_501 and I agree. What I loved most about Finn was he did screw up and wasn't the perfect hero, hopefully Rey has some more grounding experiences in Ep VIII! I don't see Jyn as a Mary Sue either Guyver1, way too soon to judge anything yet!
Now lets look at this:

Oh and this!

It's funny you mentioned Finn too. Weird how he knew how to use a light saber and didn't Hux say to Phasma he was supposed to be reprogrammed. So now we have to wonder where did Finn come from. Finn remembers he had a family

 

[WesMordine]

Call it whatever female name you want. To me, Rey is a character with the strongest connection to the Force since Anakin Skywalker (who could pilot podracers at 600+mph at age 8). The Force reveals to her what she needs as if by intuition. That's why she can understand BB-8 directly when no one else can. That's why she can pilot the Falcon like the best within minutes. That's how she instinctively "guessed" what door to close to free Finn from the rachtar. That's why she can handle herself with a lightsaber the moment she sees one, AND, that's why, when Kylo tells her he can teach her about the Force, it is revealed to her in that moment, that she can tap into the Force to effectively wield a lightsaber to overpower him.

That's how the Force works in such powerful individuals. Obi-Wan simply told Luke "your eyes can deceive you" and "act on instinct", and within a couple minutes he was deflecting blaster fire blindfolded. "Use the Force... let go", and he makes a one-in-a-million shot on the exhaust port. Out of need, he learns to Force-pull his lightsaber on Hoth. With no training he also forges a new lightsaber (Yoda sure didn't teach him that).

That is why to me, it is so clear that Rey is a Skywalker.

------

Now, if you don't like how the Force works in these characters and you feel you have to put demeaning names on them, I suggest you're choosing the wrong means of entertainment.

 

[guyver1]

Call it whatever female name you want. To me, Rey is a character with the strongest connection to the Force since Anakin Skywalker (who could pilot podracers at 600+mph at age 8). The Force reveals to her what she needs as if by intuition. That's why she can understand BB-8 directly when no one else can. That's why she can pilot the Falcon like the best within minutes. That's how she instinctively "guessed" what door to close to free Finn from the rachtar. That's why she can handle herself with a lightsaber the moment she sees one, AND, that's why, when Kylo tells her he can teach her about the Force, it is revealed to her in that moment, that she can tap into the Force to effectively wield a lightsaber to overpower him.

That's how the Force works in such powerful individuals. Obi-Wan simply told Luke "your eyes can deceive you" and "act on instinct", and within a couple minutes he was deflecting blaster fire blindfolded. "Use the Force... let go", and he makes a one-in-a-million shot on the exhaust port. Out of need, he learns to Force-pull his lightsaber on Hoth. With no training he also forges a new lightsaber (Yoda sure didn't teach him that).

That is why to me, it is so clear that Rey is a Skywalker.

------

Now, if you don't like how the Force works in these characters and you feel you have to put demeaning names on them, I suggest you're choosing the wrong means of entertainment.

See not sure if the ESB was following the pattern of the comics, books or EU because I know the time of ANH to ESB, Luke was having adventures and in his journeys he was practicing the force little by little, almost training but not quite, what I mean is by the time of Hoth, he knew how to summon the saber sort of

 

[WesMordine]

And he may very well have. But we never saw Obi-Wan teaching him to. Nor lightsaber combat, nor Force-jumping (to escape the carbon freeze), and surely neither Obi Wan nor Yoda taught him to Force-choke Jabba's guards. His Jedi mindtrick he learned from simply watching Obi Wan do it once.

So yeah, Luke has that same connection to the Force, like his father, and like his daughter/niece.