Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)

[SNIKT1950]

Oh my goodness [emoji24][emoji24][emoji24] if you have a chance relay to Snyder he did a good job and let the numbers speak for himself. I'm sure he already knows that, both times people reacted to this movie at all times I even heard claps after the batmobile chase and batman scenes, people will like this time will tell.

This.

All this "fire Snyder" crap is pointless. The film will gross over a billion bad reviews or not. WB won't even bat an eye over the critics reviews.

 

[DiFabio]

This thing where each sequel has to out do the last movie with high stakes also bugs me. I yearn for a smaller Batman story or Superman movie but we're never going to get that.

Look how humble Batman 1989 and The Dark Knight look in comparison to Man of Steel and Dawn of Justice. Instead of the hero climbing up a Cathedral all battered and beaten or trying to stop two ferries from blowing up during a hostage situation you have THE CITY IS GOING TO BLOW UP, A GIANT ALIEN INVASION IS HAPPENING and DOOOMSDAY an' NUKES. Tone it down. I've mentioned the same thing with the Marvel movies. Thankfully instead of an Alien invaded New York or a giant Sokovia island meteor impacting earth, you have Earth's Mightiest heroes duking it out in an airport. Or so it seems.

Here's hoping Suicide Squad is good. Honestly, as long as they tell an actual story and it isn't a disjointed mess, it can't be as bad as BvS. It's a great concept and I hope they follow through with it.

 

[IrishJedi]

Another question if you don't mind.... Did WB have a big influence over Snyder? Was there any tension? Did they keep adding and taking out scenes?

I wouldn't say there was tension... But they did basically say that this film needed to get to JUSTICE LEAGUE with this one movie and it had to be under 3 hours. But other than that kind of stuff they seemed to be fairly hands-off.

It will be interesting to see how the "Ultimate Cut" is received.

 

[a-dev]

It really has been pretty fascinating seeing who liked and didn't like this film. So damn polarising.

 

[karamazov80]

I loved the ending with Bats and Lex.

I loved Lex as a villain but didn't care for hims as "Lex Luthor", anyway, at the end, him going autistic with the "ding ding ding ding He's coming ding ding ding" and seeing the ****ing painting upside down with the demons coming from above was waaaaay more frightening and menacing that anything related to foreshadowing Thanos, including seeing Thanos himself, Darkseid is legitimately scary and I haven't even seen him yet.

I thought that was probably the single worst scene in the movie. Plus, they're doing precisely the same thing that Marvel has been doing--let's forecast this unbelievably powerful cosmic threat with end of movie teases. Feels a bit lazy, though I guess it's no surprise that they're going to ape the Marvel strategy in this regard.

 

[GasparZizou]

Jezuzzzz...Christ

The apokolips thing is a mental ***, but the ship's AI is straight from the Supes animated series.

 

[JAWS]

I saw it in it's entirety with the family. I absolutely hated it.

This is really an odd experience for me because I had been seeing bits and pieces of this thing since the fall as some of you know. I was privy to a bunch of spoilers and got to see the "best" scenes that weren't being shown in the trailers and such thanks to an insider, a good friend. The only thing I didn't know about was the ending with Superman and Doomsday, nor did he. So once everything is in context, man oh man, what a **** show. I will never see this movie again.

It's a disjointed mess. There are like 6-7 elements running throughout this thing, which would be fine on their own if it was allowed to breathe. You have,

- a sequel to Man of Steel
- a solo Batman story
- a Batman vs. Superman story
- a cool apocalyptic "Mad Max" future Batman movie
- an adaptation to the Dark Knight Returns
- an adaptation to The Death of Superman
- little advertisements for the Justice League
- Wonder Woman

It's a cluster ****. I was getting frustrated sitting there because there is zero flow. The editing from scene to scene makes no sense whatsoever. One minute we're following Batman on his crusade to take down Superman, then they stuff a random plot about a bullet from that Africa scene into it. This movie made me feel retarded because I was struggling to follow it.

There are some legitimately good scenes here and there. Batman's "Jeeper's Creepers" entrance abducting that pedophile that was trafficing those girls with the two cops was creepy and cool. The Bruce and Alfred chemistry and banter was perfect and rivaled the other Batmen. I liked the crippled Wally guy as this disenfranchised man that lost everything and blamed Superman while a guilt ridden Bruce Wayne blamed himself. The sadistic jar of piss? That could be suspenseful in another movie. There are some great moments throughout that are worth seeing. I LOVED the Mad Max "Knightmare" sequence where Batman and his crew go to make the exchange with the soldiers with the Kryptonite, but they end up being tricked when it's just a little green light. Batman's reaction and the fight that results is really suspenseful and great but . . . for another, different movie.

Then the next scene plays and it sucks you right out of the thing and you don't know where you are. You don't care where you are. The pacing for this movie is ****ing horrible. Remember when Batman and Superman are getting ready to duke it out? What does it do? We're introduced to another subplot involving the Kryptonian magic ship and Zod's corpse with Luthor acting like some kind of witch doctor. THEN we go to Diana and her ****ing laptop watching scenes from the Flash, Aquaman and Cyborg movies. Then we're at Kansas where Martha is closing the diner and gets abducted. JUST get to Batman's "hunt" and trap for Superman. That could have been a great scene if I actually cared about everything leading up to it. That should have been the climax of the movie, not Doomsday and the Death of Superman.

You have this great potential with this broken, bloated, cynical, Johnny Cash Batman and a Superman that's trying to do the right thing but is getting **** on and misinterpreted by the media every step of the way. There is a good story to tell there, but this movie just refuses to do it. It asks questions and ponders philipspical ideas but never does anything with them. Things that are established end up getting thrown aside. There is no story here. There's nothing to take away from it. You have a few quality scenes sprinkled out and some interesting scenes that would be great in a different movie, but none of it works as a whole.

I don't like The Dark Knight Rises, but ****, atleast it had a story with a clear 1st act, 2nd act and climax that was building up to something. The Schumacher movies? I never want to see someone insult Batman Forever or Batman and Robin again. Atleast those are competent movies with a clear intention and a good flow and consistent tone. Like them or hate them, they're actually telling a story that you can follow and not an incoherent mess.

Like I said, the frustrating thing is that there's a great movie in there somewhere but they're just juggling too many things. It really reminds me of The Dark Knight Rises (which to be fair atleast followed through with A STORY it was trying to tell) where it had all these cool ideas but does nothing with them. It just drives right through the plot instead of letting any of the concepts simmer. Nothing interesting anyway. Simply throwing out these philosophical themes and having characters pondering God complexes for a few seconds with exposition isn't enough. You have over two hours to flesh these things out, so do it. Don't throw in as much as you can and set things up for a sequel.

The third act isn't how I would have ended it. Doomsday was completely unnecessary and doesn't fit what the movie established itself as in the beginning. This should have been a Batman and Superman movie, PERIOD. I don't care for the Cavill Superman since I don't like MoS, but he got the short end of the stick here. They ****ed Cavill's superman over pretty hard. He doesn't have any great scenes, he never gets to speak his piece of mind. He never gets to defend himself or prove his worth. He gets blamed for everything. Batman kicks his ass. And he dies. Cavill is wooden as ****, but like this movie itself, there's a Clark Kent/Superman in him that's worth seeing. I know if there was material for him he could do it.

This movie doesn't know what it wants to be, so I don't care. I was sitting in there with disbelief when Lex is mocking the senator, or feeding jolly ranchers to a government politician to get access to the ship, or cutting himself with a naked Zod body, or Doomsday blowing up with huge electrical CGI explosions. It was a **** fest, all of it. Is it exploring the ideologies between Batman and Superman? Kind of. Is it a quasi-adaptation of The Dark Knight Returns? Kind of. Is it a sequel to Man of Steel? Kind of. Is it just there to set up the Justice League? Kind of. Is it a trippy movie with visions of the future (which goes completely unexplained)? Kind of. I bet there was actually a draft where there was a legit movie with a story at one point in the development and production process until the powers at be wanted Lex Luthor's trump card and all the Justice Legause **** to came into play. I dunno. I'm sick of all these movies really. None of them ever feel definitive or conclusive like they're giving it their all right out of the gate. It's always setting up more BS for people to get hyped up for the next couple of years. It's annoying. This should have been THE event of 2016, it's ****ing Batman and Superman. Instead it just feels like another bad movie that's come and gone.

It's actually really hard to describe the movie once you get out too. Try typing out the synopsis. I did that for a few of you guys around the holidays based on what I knew, and honestly, it made more sense and had drama out of context compared to the final produc. What a mess. It's just that there are scenes and set pieces that are great on their own. You know, if you were like watching just the scenes in a stand alone, non-comprehensive movie. The movie in it's entirety though? Awful. It's not cohesive at all. I don't know if it was the editing or what but it seemed like the movie was jumping from character to character randomly, almost like the next scene didn't matter and it was just going from A to B to C, etc. There wasn't a flow or logic to it.



They should have kept it simple. Batman against Superman (maybe with Luthor acting as a catalyst with a CLEAR goal, played by a charming and RUTHLESS guy like Bryan Cranston or something) for the two of them to clash. That's all it needed. No Doomsday, no Wonder Woman, no Justice League set up. It all made it too muddled.

OR

Make a straight up adaptation of The Dark Knight Returns ala Wathcmen. Have the Joker, Two-Face, the president, the Mutant Leader, girl Robin and Superman.

OR

A balls to the wall apocalyptic Batman movie directed by George Miller


Dunno how you **** up something this simple, but they managed to do it. The people I feel bad for the most are the actors. Affleck and Irons are good in it. The Russian guys could have made for great thugs in a seperate movie. Fishburne does his thing and makes for a cool Perry. All these elements together though just don't fit at all.

I really thought this would have been me after seeing the film... For some reason I was able to get past a lot of that and it worked for me...

 

[bonestockbrz]

It's this this thread that makes me hate the movie more and more . I actually left the movie and enjoyed it. Then slept on it and woke up hating it

 

[WWEJedi]

I wouldn't say there was tension... But they did basically say that this film needed to get to JUSTICE LEAGUE with this one movie and it had to be under 3 hours. But other than that kind of stuff they seemed to be fairly hands-off.

It will be interesting to see how the "Ultimate Cut" is received.

Thanks again The more I know, the more I am forgiving

I assume you watched the ultimate/director's cut? Can you share anything?

 

[SNIKT1950]

Too specific how? The thing about dreams is that they feel real, but are often surreal and exaggerated, having a bizarre logic of their own. I felt it perfectly fit that criteria.

The Parademons, warlord Superman, Lois dying as the trigger, the Omega symbol branded over the land...

Too many specific things for a random nightmare.

 

[IrishJedi]

This thing where each sequel has to out do the last movie with high stakes also bugs me. I yearn for a smaller Batman story or Superman movie but we're never going to get that.

Look how humble Batman 1989 and The Dark Knight look in comparison to Man of Steel and Dawn of Justice. Instead of the hero climbing up a Cathedral all battered and beaten or trying to stop two ferries from blowing up during a hostage situation you have THE CITY IS GOING TO BLOW UP, A GIANT ALIEN INVASION IS HAPPENING and DOOOMSDAY an' NUKES. Tone it down. I've mentioned the same thing with the Marvel movies. Thankfully instead of an Alien invaded New York or a giant Sokovia island meteor impacting earth, you have Earth's Mightiest heroes duking it out in an airport. Or so it seems.

Here's hoping Suicide Squad is good. Honestly, as long as they tell an actual story and it isn't a disjointed mess, it can't be as bad as BvS. It's a great concept and I hope they follow through with it.

You'll be happy to hear that the Batman solo film idea that's being tossed around is pretty street-level in comparison. Which makes sense if Affleck does it, because he already excels at that.

 

[GasparZizou]

I thought that was probably the single worst scene in the movie. Plus, they're doing precisely the same thing that Marvel has been doing--let's forecast this unbelievably powerful cosmic threat with end of movie teases. Feels a bit lazy, though I guess it's no surprise that they're going to ape the Marvel strategy in this regard.

But that's what I'm saying, I liked this one better, it was better done and with more artistry. Admittedly this could be ruined for most because of this unrecognizable Luthor.

 

[a-dev]

It's this this thread that makes me hate the movie more and more . I actually left the movie and enjoyed it. Then slept on it and woke up hating it

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

This thing where each sequel has to out do the last movie with high stakes also bugs me. I yearn for a smaller Batman story or Superman movie but we're never going to get that.

Look how humble Batman 1989 and The Dark Knight look in comparison to Man of Steel and Dawn of Justice. Instead of the hero climbing up a Cathedral all battered and beaten or trying to stop two ferries from blowing up during a hostage situation you have THE CITY IS GOING TO BLOW UP, A GIANT ALIEN INVASION IS HAPPENING and DOOOMSDAY an' NUKES. Tone it down. I've mentioned the same thing with the Marvel movies. Thankfully instead of an Alien invaded New York or a giant Sokovia island meteor impacting earth, you have Earth's Mightiest heroes duking it out in an airport. Or so it seems.

Here's hoping Suicide Squad is good. Honestly, as long as they tell an actual story and it isn't a disjointed mess, it can't be as bad as BvS. It's a great concept and I hope they follow through with it.

I dodn't even see how The Joker is a top villain or a threat in this universe after watching BVS...or how is he even still alive

 

[karamazov80]

This thing where each sequel has to out do the last movie with high stakes also bugs me. I yearn for a smaller Batman story or Superman movie but we're never going to get that.

Look how humble Batman 1989 and The Dark Knight look in comparison to Man of Steel and Dawn of Justice. Instead of the hero climbing up a Cathedral all battered and beaten or trying to stop two ferries from blowing up during a hostage situation you have THE CITY IS GOING TO BLOW UP, A GIANT ALIEN INVASION IS HAPPENING and DOOOMSDAY an' NUKES. Tone it down. I've mentioned the same thing with the Marvel movies. Thankfully instead of an Alien invaded New York or a giant Sokovia island meteor impacting earth, you have Earth's Mightiest heroes duking it out in an airport. Or so it seems.

Here's hoping Suicide Squad is good. Honestly, as long as they tell an actual story and it isn't a disjointed mess, it can't be as bad as BvS. It's a great concept and I hope they follow through with it.

I feel similarly. You can only go so far constantly re-upping the massive, world and universe-destroying threats. At some point it just becomes Dragonball Z, which isn't a good thing narratively IMO. And Marvel Studios is a terrible offender.

After the thing at the end with Lex, I fear Suicide Squad may be forced into this arc, by having the enemy they face be related to Darkseid somehow. But Irish said it is fairly self-contained, so fingers crossed!

 

[IrishJedi]

Thanks again The more I know, the more I am forgiving

I assume you watched the ultimate/director's cut? Can you share anything?

I saw a longer (unfinished) cut a couple of months ago, but I'm honestly not sure how different that will be from the "Ultimate Cut", so I'm eager to see that as well. I can tell you that the opening scene in Africa was longer and the Batman warehouse fight was more violent and Watchmen-like.

 

[GasparZizou]

I dodn't even see how The Joker is a top villain or a threat in this universe after watching BVS

But it's not about being bigger, they can still do small stuff. Plus the Joker has rarely been a doomsday device kind of villain, he's better off in smaller, more personal stories. So he remains unaffected imo.

 

[JAWS]

Question... So the film kept showing what looked like a burnt down Wayne manor... Does this happen in the comics or are we supposed to somehow tie this with TDK trilogy.. Like Batman came back after hanging with Catwoman for awhile ... I know it's not supposed to be exact sequel. It just seemed to go out of it way to show us that building... Of course I would have liked to see how Bruce explained coming back form the dead...

I am not saying it is definite.. But perhaps it's a way you can except the other films as a part of the Universe just fill in the blanks for yourself



OR has Wayne Manor get burned down in the Comics I don't recall that happening but I have not read every Batman story.

 

[GasparZizou]

Question... So the film kept showing what looked like a burnt down Wayne manor... Does this happen in the comics or are we supposed to somehow tie this with TDK trilogy.. Like Batman came back after hanging with Catwoman for awhile ... I know it's not supposed to be exact sequel. It just seemed to go out of it way to show us that building... Of course I would have liked to see how Bruce explained coming back form the dead...

I am not saying it is definite.. But perhaps it's a way you can except the other films as a part of the Universe just fill in the blanks for yourself



OR has Wayne Manor get burned down in the Comics I don't recall that happening but I have not read every Batman story.

It's not related to the TDK trilogy, I reckon something horrible happened and now Wayne manor is all burnt down and crumbling... Same as Bats/Bruce.

 

[WWEJedi]

I saw a longer (unfinished) cut a couple of months ago, but I'm honestly not sure how different that will be from the "Ultimate Cut", so I'm eager to see that as well. I can tell you that the opening scene in Africa was longer and the Batman warehouse fight was more violent and Watchmen-like.

Batman fight sounds awesome! Can't wait to watch it