Budget Stark - Why do Hot Toys figures cost more now, than 5 years ago.

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Budget Stark

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Hi guys

This is a common discussion I see every week. So I thought I would do this video to explain some more of the business aspects so collectors have a better understanding.

Thanks for watching.

 
At 2 million for Downey's license, Hot Toys would have to sell ten-thousand Iron Man figures at $200 a pop just to break even. Wow. And that's not counting Marvel's licensing fees on top of it, and the cost of labor, production materials, and so on.

This sheds some light on why some characters get multiple releases--not just popularity, but the cost of licensing that actor, factor into it as well. If Chris Evans' likeness, for example, is going to cost a pretty penny in licensing fees, then the best way to make money is to keep going back to the well and release lots of Captain Americas...
 
At 2 million for Downey's license, Hot Toys would have to sell ten-thousand Iron Man figures at $200 a pop just to break even. Wow. And that's not counting Marvel's licensing fees on top of it, and the cost of labor, production materials, and so on.

This sheds some light on why some characters get multiple releases--not just popularity, but the cost of licensing that actor, factor into it as well. If Chris Evans' likeness, for example, is going to cost a pretty penny in licensing fees, then the best way to make money is to keep going back to the well and release lots of Captain Americas...

It is not 10,000 at $200, as that is assuming 100% of the money goes to the licence, which obviously it doesnt.

If you assume 25% of the figure money goes towards the RDJ licence, you need 4 times the amount, so 40,000 figures to break even on that RDJ licence.
 
Yeah, but lets keep this real. Howard does not drive a Toyota Prius. He is making plenty of money. Inflation has not been that rampant over the last few years. It had been relatively flat during the economy bust. Oil is at a low right now. Plenty of people I know have not had a raise in several years or very minimal at best. Rent has not gone up that much. Even if there were raises, The Chinese make so little, it would be negligible in terms of impacting costs. Licensing is a big part of the fees, but still HT is raking it in.
 
Yeah, but lets keep this real. Howard does not drive a Toyota Prius. He is making plenty of money. Inflation has not been that rampant over the last few years. It had been relatively flat during the economy bust. Oil is at a low right now. Plenty of people I know have not had a raise in several years or very minimal at best. Rent has not gone up that much. Even if there were raises, The Chinese make so little, it would be negligible in terms of impacting costs. Licensing is a big part of the fees, but still HT is raking it in.

Darth Mangler, it seems you are only saying those points from a USA perspective with no basis of foundation for what happens in HK. Hot Toys are not based in USA, so your points are kind of not applicable to a product manufactured in HK/ China, right?

Howard drives a Japanese car, Honda or Toyota I think, so it could be a Prius. If Hot Toys are "raking it in" then that is a well run business!

Oil price in USA is low, not in HK/ China as it is around 2 times the price compared to USA.
Minimum wage has increased considerably in HK/ China, along with rent, manufacturing, expenses in the last 4-5 years.
Rent maybe has not gone up in USA, but it has in HK quite considerably.

Maybe you just dont want to take on board those facts from the video, which is fine as that is your choice.

The interesting thing about the collectors who have that feeling towards Hot Toys, is that they are generally all from USA. Possibly the mentality of some USA collectors don't want to learn the reasons behind it, or maybe they just like to moan.

I dont understand why USA collectors moan so much, as USA collectors pay pretty much the lowest cost for HT figures due to the great job that Sideshow do. UK and European collectors pay considerably more.
 
Yeah, but lets keep this real. Howard does not drive a Toyota Prius. He is making plenty of money. Inflation has not been that rampant over the last few years. It had been relatively flat during the economy bust. Oil is at a low right now. Plenty of people I know have not had a raise in several years or very minimal at best. Rent has not gone up that much. Even if there were raises, The Chinese make so little, it would be negligible in terms of impacting costs. Licensing is a big part of the fees, but still HT is raking it in.

Yeah, and what was your point, anyway? He is running a business here, why he wouldn´t making money from it? Love for the collectors?
 
Where does the 2 mil figure come from? is it a confirmed ammount? is it what RDJ wanted from Hot Toys? or is it what he wanted from Marvel? because if it was from Marvel then that 2 mil would be divided between all sorts of merchandising wouldn't it?
 
You mention that you are not affiliated with Hot Toys yet you seem to have become the voice of them for the collectors. In curious as to how HT feels about that. As for me the radically increasing (and somewhat ridiculous) pricing has distance me from collecting. Rather than thinking of another figure for my collection i tend to think another figure I'm not buying. This thought slowly developed into a layer of "fat". Meaning I don't care about new releases aka Star Wars.
 
I'm sure HT has their budget drawn out. If they can't profit out of RDJ, they probably wouldn't even do him, anyway i'm not sure the rights for RDJ is used for everything Ironman from the movies, or just the ones that bears his facesculpt, since most of the new suits doesn't come with his sculpt. But i guess HT realize that and has to rely on making lots of ironman just to cover RDJ's cost.

RDJ's accountant probably drew up some charts depicting the estimated sales of the figure & price per figure before coming up with the $2mil number. To be hones $2mil is not alo, you'd have to pay him more just to have a 10secs appearance on an advert.

Imagine Enterbay Michael Jordan, if that's the case, the number of release is way lower than Ironman and we all know Michael Jordan charges one of the highest premium when it comes down to licensing, and not forget NBA, Spalding, Chicago Bulls, he's no longer under NBA so it's not like you can purchase an all in 1 package from NBA.


It is not 10,000 at $200, as that is assuming 100% of the money goes to the licence, which obviously it doesnt.

If you assume 25% of the figure money goes towards the RDJ licence, you need 4 times the amount, so 40,000 figures to break even on that RDJ licence.
 
You mention that you are not affiliated with Hot Toys yet you seem to have become the voice of them for the collectors. In curious as to how HT feels about that. As for me the radically increasing (and somewhat ridiculous) pricing has distance me from collecting. Rather than thinking of another figure for my collection i tend to think another figure I'm not buying. This thought slowly developed into a layer of "fat". Meaning I don't care about new releases aka Star Wars.

I am not the voice of Hot Toys, but explain the information that anyone can find out if they lived in Hong Kong, spoke Cantonese, spoke English and if there were polite and courteous to people. If you had the same 4 criteria above, you could get the same info yourself.

I don't see anyone else on Facebook, youtube nor in these forums from Hong Kong explaining info like what I have explained. Why not, maybe because not many collectors fit in the above 4 main criteria, ie live in HK, speak English, speak Cantonese and polite.

Hot Toys I think welcome this as USA collectors have a poor understanding of what goes on. Kids Logic just approached me to requested to use one of my youtube videos to put onto their website and Facebook page. Of which I dont get paid, I dont get any discounts, I pay the same as everyone else.

I know most of the staff at Hot Toys and some subscribe my Youtube channel. I have been told some people at Sideshow know of me too.

These "ridicolous" pricing we dont really see if you are buying direct in HK. Starlord is about USD $200, Gamora is about USD $150, Falcon is about USD $210, Iron Man MK43 USD $285. But only available if you lived in HK and pre-ordered 6 months to 1 year in advance and ordered and picked up in person.

This is simply geographical variations in price.
 
I do appreciate you posts, effort and informative information, however I do think you should have a disclaimer in front of your video saying the research, views and opinions are entirely your own and don't represent Hot Toys etc.


Everywhere is expensive. Where I live we have Dollar Stores closing down and moving to another city because the rent is too high. One bedroom 800sf for $500,000 (no yard house butted next to another starting at 1 million).

My point is that I have been a action figure collector all my life. Star Wars is the heart and soul. The epicentre of my collecting passion. But at today's prices I already know and don't care what figure they release as I know I do not want to pay over $250 for a action figure. I have the money but the ridiculous increases have gone past the borders of what I will pay for a figure.

Sure I will still collect but my selection is now extremely selective (i.e. BD Robocop and Chewbacca for 2015). Anything else I can't care for. Put it this way "who buys Chewbacca without Han Solo?".....me!
 
I do appreciate you posts, effort and informative information, however I do think you should have a disclaimer in front of your video saying the research, views and opinions are entirely your own and don't represent Hot Toys etc.


Everywhere is expensive. Where I live we have Dollar Stores closing down and moving to another city because the rent is too high. One bedroom 800sf for $500,000 (no yard house butted next to another starting at 1 million).

My point is that I have been a action figure collector all my life. Star Wars is the heart and soul. The epicentre of my collecting passion. But at today's prices I already know and don't care what figure they release as I know I do not want to pay over $250 for a action figure. And I do have the money

Market drives the force. You have been in the game long enough to know how much they are worth, but new comers don't, they think it's ok to pay such a price, everything gets hyped up, old timers like you stop paying for what they are asking, but new players still buy them, so in the end companies figured out that even if they lost some of their old customers, they are still making more profit thanks to the new comers. End of the day it's about maximizing profit. It's all business.
 
I just don't believe this information is correct.

For these big budget franchises, the actors likeness rights are tied up in their movie contract. Actors don't negotiate that separately for each piece of merchandise that comes out. Merchandising is how the studios make a ton of their money and justify spending $200M on these tent pole movies.

Potentially RDJ may not have signed his likeness away because when he did Iron Man 1, it wasn't exactly a big deal to be in a Marvel movie....but the flip side is that he signed because he had no career at that point, so I don't know if he negogiated to separate likeness rights for Iron Man toys.
He 'was told' RDJ requested $2m for likeness rights from Hot Toys. By who? And when?
Remember to 99% of the world, the 1/6 market is still totally unknown. But he wanted $2M from Hot Toys directly? That seems ....weird....
Until I see Howard Chan state that in an interview, I'm going to take that with a grain of salt.

I work for a huge company, people are always wrong, even about topics they should know about ....just because someone works for a company and tells you something, doesn't mean they know what they are talking about.

And you can be sure that even if it is the case for Downey, once the Marvel movies exploded, the merchandise likeness rights would have been tied into the contract the actors are signing. Toy companies are not negotiating individually with Chris Pratt to make Starlord figures or Chris Evans to make Captain America figures.

(Note: an actors approval on the quality of their likeness on a product is different from negotiating the products themselves. That is why we see 'pending final approval' on some products ....although on this end we can't tell in each case whether it is the actor themselves or simply the merchandise department)

Mark Hamill is brought up as an example of someone who wouldn't request as much as Robert Downey?
The Star Wars actors signed away their likeness rights forever in the 1970s. I don't think Hamill would have been involved in the Hot Toys deal.
Actors like Carrie Fisher have joked publicly that she doesn't own her face, George Lucas does (now Disney I guess....)
The idea that Mark Hamill was happy to sign with Hot Toys because he hasn't done a movie for years and 'would probably work for a peanut butter sandwich' is silly. The original trilogy cast worked on % of profit deals .... % of profit from Star Wars movies ....

And then there is this gem:

"Arnold Schwarzenegger who obviously went into politics and didn't do much acting, he probably didn't get paid a huge amount for Terminator 5"

What? Arnie got one of the biggest paycheques of all time for Terminator 3. You think he is working for a lot less now? Or that he is pretending to be a robot again for the love it? I haven't seen info on his deal for this new one but his paycheque and % of profit deal for Terminator 5 will likely be one of the biggest Hollywood has ever seen.

Budget Stark obviously knows about the rising costs of Hong Kong but I question some of the other stuff.
 
I just don't believe this information is correct.

For these big budget franchises, the actors likeness rights are tied up in their movie contract. Actors don't negotiate that separately for each piece of merchandise that comes out. Merchandising is how the studios make a ton of their money and justify spending $200M on these tent pole movies.

Potentially RDJ may not have signed his likeness away because when he did Iron Man 1, it wasn't exactly a big deal to be in a Marvel movie....but the flip side is that he signed because he had no career at that point, so I don't know if he negogiated to separate likeness rights for Iron Man toys.
He 'was told' RDJ requested $2m for likeness rights from Hot Toys. By who? And when?
Remember to 99% of the world, the 1/6 market is still totally unknown. But he wanted $2M from Hot Toys directly? That seems ....weird....
Until I see Howard Chan state that in an interview, I'm going to take that with a grain of salt.

I work for a huge company, people are always wrong, even about topics they should know about ....just because someone works for a company and tells you something, doesn't mean they know what they are talking about.

And you can be sure that even if it is the case for Downey, once the Marvel movies exploded, the merchandise likeness rights would have been tied into the contract the actors are signing. Toy companies are not negotiating individually with Chris Pratt to make Starlord figures or Chris Evans to make Captain America figures.

(Note: an actors approval on the quality of their likeness on a product is different from negotiating the products themselves. That is why we see 'pending final approval' on some products ....although on this end we can't tell in each case whether it is the actor themselves or simply the merchandise department)

Mark Hamill is brought up as an example of someone who wouldn't request as much as Robert Downey?
The Star Wars actors signed away their likeness rights forever in the 1970s. I don't think Hamill would have been involved in the Hot Toys deal.
Actors like Carrie Fisher have joked publicly that she doesn't own her face, George Lucas does (now Disney I guess....)
The idea that Mark Hamill was happy to sign with Hot Toys because he hasn't done a movie for years and 'would probably work for a peanut butter sandwich' is silly. The original trilogy cast worked on % of profit deals .... % of profit from Star Wars movies ....

And then there is this gem:

"Arnold Schwarzenegger who obviously went into politics and didn't do much acting, he probably didn't get paid a huge amount for Terminator 5"

What? Arnie got one of the biggest paycheques of all time for Terminator 3. You think he is working for a lot less now? Or that he is pretending to be a robot again for the love it? I haven't seen info on his deal for this new one but his paycheque and % of profit deal for Terminator 5 will likely be one of the biggest Hollywood has ever seen.

Budget Stark obviously knows about the rising costs of Hong Kong but I question some of the other stuff.

:goodpost:
 
I don't see anyone else on Facebook, youtube nor in these forums from Hong Kong explaining info like what I have explained.

Frankly, stating that figures are expensive now because of licensing and increased manufacturing costs isn't anything we didn't already know. Some of us already know that and understand it. The rest of the forum-goers here just need something to talk about.
 
I just don't believe this information is correct.

For these big budget franchises, the actors likeness rights are tied up in their movie contract. Actors don't negotiate that separately for each piece of merchandise that comes out. Merchandising is how the studios make a ton of their money and justify spending $200M on these tent pole movies.

Potentially RDJ may not have signed his likeness away because when he did Iron Man 1, it wasn't exactly a big deal to be in a Marvel movie....but the flip side is that he signed because he had no career at that point, so I don't know if he negogiated to separate likeness rights for Iron Man toys.
He 'was told' RDJ requested $2m for likeness rights from Hot Toys. By who? And when?
Remember to 99% of the world, the 1/6 market is still totally unknown. But he wanted $2M from Hot Toys directly? That seems ....weird....
Until I see Howard Chan state that in an interview, I'm going to take that with a grain of salt.

I work for a huge company, people are always wrong, even about topics they should know about ....just because someone works for a company and tells you something, doesn't mean they know what they are talking about.

And you can be sure that even if it is the case for Downey, once the Marvel movies exploded, the merchandise likeness rights would have been tied into the contract the actors are signing. Toy companies are not negotiating individually with Chris Pratt to make Starlord figures or Chris Evans to make Captain America figures.

(Note: an actors approval on the quality of their likeness on a product is different from negotiating the products themselves. That is why we see 'pending final approval' on some products ....although on this end we can't tell in each case whether it is the actor themselves or simply the merchandise department)

Mark Hamill is brought up as an example of someone who wouldn't request as much as Robert Downey?
The Star Wars actors signed away their likeness rights forever in the 1970s. I don't think Hamill would have been involved in the Hot Toys deal.
Actors like Carrie Fisher have joked publicly that she doesn't own her face, George Lucas does (now Disney I guess....)
The idea that Mark Hamill was happy to sign with Hot Toys because he hasn't done a movie for years and 'would probably work for a peanut butter sandwich' is silly. The original trilogy cast worked on % of profit deals .... % of profit from Star Wars movies ....

And then there is this gem:

"Arnold Schwarzenegger who obviously went into politics and didn't do much acting, he probably didn't get paid a huge amount for Terminator 5"

What? Arnie got one of the biggest paycheques of all time for Terminator 3. You think he is working for a lot less now? Or that he is pretending to be a robot again for the love it? I haven't seen info on his deal for this new one but his paycheque and % of profit deal for Terminator 5 will likely be one of the biggest Hollywood has ever seen.

Budget Stark obviously knows about the rising costs of Hong Kong but I question some of the other stuff.

Hi SAB, thanks for your post.

You are right, I may well be inaccurate about some points. I dont work in the toy sector, nor the movie business, nor in toy manufacturing. The information I discussed are my own thoughts and if they are inaccurate then so be it, as it is to the best of my knowledge at the time of making the video.

Some of those points were mentioned in jest. I have no interest in finding out about the exact movie rights and financial deals for Mark Hamill and the real costs of things that happened several years back. It does not interest me.

You could rectify the info regarding Arnie in due course and then you could post a video so you can share your views and findings for us to see.

For me and possibly most collectors, it is pretty simple, how much does a figure costs and if I want it and can afford it, I buy it. It doesn't really matter that much to me regarding all the background admin, legalities, if RDJ got paid $10 million and Hot Toys decide to make a huge loss as they have other means to recoup the money, or if RDJ got paid with a free MK43 one of a kind Uber special edition.

The behind the scenes activity doesn't really affect me, so I am not particularly that interested in it. But I can understand that some collectors are very interested in it.
 
Frankly, stating that figures are expensive now because of licensing and increased manufacturing costs isn't anything we didn't already know. Some of us already know that and understand it. The rest of the forum-goers here just need something to talk about.

SwedishHeat - I think you are probably correct with that comment.
 
So I guess general HK wages went up during these four years too.
Because otherwise it'd pretty dumb of a company to raise prices knowing that customers aren't able to keep up.
 
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