EXO-6 Star Trek "General Discussion" 1/6 Line

[HPGR_Thrawn]

I'm still not over Ariam's death. Although I kind of saw it coming with how much backstory they tried to develop. But rather than do it little by little over the course of the season they tried to cram it all into a few story beats. This is why I liked SNW's pacing more than DIS.

 

[davejames]

I didn't mind the singular focus on Burnham in the first couple seasons, when she was this edgier character that no one else quite trusted or understood, as she was far more interesting and it was a unique storytelling perspective. But once the new showrunner came onboard and made the show a whole lot more touchy feely, and Burnham this more lighthearted, gung-ho Captain, I thought she because rather... insufferable and hard to spend time with. And at THAT point I really wish we could have spread the stories out more among the other characters and gotten to know the bridge crew more.

That said, I'd still put DSC's storytelling and character development over the majority of VOY and ENT, which felt so generic and by the numbers to me back in the day, and still do.

 

[Skyroes]

That said, I'd still put DSC's storytelling and character development over the majority of VOY and ENT, which felt so generic and by the numbers to me back in the day, and still do.

Does that include “The Burn”?

 

[Brunt FCA]

Actually, they spent a few episodes prior establishing some character for Ariam, I remember the whole thing about her loading her memories, and holding onto that one with her Fiancé/boyfriend in particular.

That was all in the same episode that she died in. The show waited until the very last moment to bother to give the character any interior life.

 

[StarDude]

Actually, they spent a few episodes prior establishing some character for Ariam, I remember the whole thing about her loading her memories, and holding onto that one with her Fiancé/boyfriend in particular.

You brought something to mind though. In TOS you have episodes like Balance of Terror, where you meet a young couple for the first time, and the groom dies. A emotional impact happens, even though we have never seen either of these crew before and have no emotional attachment to them. We see this happen all through Trek. Characters who appear for one episode have something tragic happen which is supposed to trigger a emotional response.

But here in DISCO with Ariam's death many of you are saying it meant nothing, even though they spent more time developing some bit of character for her, then older Trek ever did.

I'm curious on why that is. I could argue that in my example TOS was better acted, Shatner was THE MAN IMO, he brought the weight of being a Captain in that scene. But I'm biased, because I too am one of the grumpy old men, TOS, DS9 are my top two. But I do see where DISCO at least tried to build on what came before, even if most of it was forgettable for me.

It's perhaps just worse storytelling.
Ariam was just a prop in my eyes. She wasn't successful as a character at all. I felt nothing when she died.

Then in TNG there's Sito Jaxa who got less time, less episodes, just less overall. Yet the episode was 100x more successful at making you feel for her and Picard. Picard BARELY emoted but you could SEE the pain. On the other hand Michael is running around saying "I love you!" and everyone is practically crying, it's just so over the top... Maybe that makes it less believable? Honestly haven't watched the episode for years now, I just remember it failing.

Another comparison I could make is the little girl in the first hunger games. People hated that she was killed and would cry. But those people read the book. They had some context. I, who had no context from the book having never read it was like "that girl had like 4 lines so I don't care". Context matters.

Sito Jaxa was done better than both.

 

[Kebron]

That was all in the same episode that she died in. The show waited until the very last moment to bother to give the character any interior life.

That was only one example. I didn't say it was a previous episode. They did have her do other things in other episodes, and she certainly had more screentime then the one and done characters in previous Treks.

 

[Kebron]

It's perhaps just worse storytelling.
Ariam was just a prop in my eyes. She wasn't successful as a character at all. I felt nothing when she died.

Then in TNG there's Sito Jaxa who got less time, less episodes, just less overall. Yet the episode was 100x more successful at making you feel for her and Picard. Picard BARELY emoted but you could SEE the pain. On the other hand Michael is running around saying "I love you!" and everyone is practically crying, it's just so over the top... Maybe that makes it less believable? Honestly haven't watched the episode for years now, I just remember it failing.

Another comparison I could make is the little girl in the first hunger games. People hated that she was killed and would cry. But those people read the book. They had some context. I, who had no context from the book having never read it was like "that girl had like 4 lines so I don't care". Context matters.

Sito Jaxa was done better than both.

View attachment 707093

Perhaps it is storytelling. I remember that episode of TNG, but I couldn't tell you that character's name, just like most of the one and done characters. Ariam though I remember probably because she stuck around. Granted, I couldn't tell you any of the other non main cast bridge crew, aside from Linus. Maybe I remember it cause the characters were different and stood out to me.

As for the affirmations and crying, I think that might be the generational differences in target audiences again. I see in both my family, and in coworkers who are way younger than me this need to constantly, tell each other how loved they are, how valued they are, etc. Most people my age, don't need that and for me it feels fake unless its coming from a select few that I know I'm close to.

 

[davejames]

Does that include “The Burn”?

Ha no, not my favorite story, but at least it felt different and original.

 

[Skyroes]

It's perhaps just worse storytelling.
Ariam was just a prop in my eyes. She wasn't successful as a character at all. I felt nothing when she died.

Then in TNG there's Sito Jaxa who got less time, less episodes, just less overall. Yet the episode was 100x more successful at making you feel for her and Picard. Picard BARELY emoted but you could SEE the pain. On the other hand Michael is running around saying "I love you!" and everyone is practically crying, it's just so over the top... Maybe that makes it less believable? Honestly haven't watched the episode for years now, I just remember it failing.

Another comparison I could make is the little girl in the first hunger games. People hated that she was killed and would cry. But those people read the book. They had some context. I, who had no context from the book having never read it was like "that girl had like 4 lines so I don't care". Context matters.

Sito Jaxa was done better than both.

View attachment 707093

Good points. I would also throw in DS9’s The Ship into this comparison as well. Ensign Muniz was a one and done character, and very much like TNG was successful in having the audience invest in that loss.

 

[DParga21]

Good points. I would also throw in DS9’s The Ship into this comparison as well. Ensign Muniz was a one and done character, and very much like TNG was successful in having the audience invest in that loss.

Let me put on my nerd glasses for a minute:
"Ack-shew-ally", Muniz had shown up for 2 or 3 episodes by then, though not very heavily featured.

 

[localmonkey]

That said, I'd still put DSC's storytelling and character development over the majority of VOY and ENT, which felt so generic and by the numbers to me back in the day, and still do.

 

[QuiGonFishing]

View attachment 707200

 

[StarDude]

While I think DISC is garbage compared to VOY and even ENT... There's something about VOY and ENT that makes them age worse than TNG and DS9. Outside of the earliest seasons of both TNG and DS9, later seasons of both shows have aged better than VOY and ENT in my opinion. There's something really... "TV show" about them sometimes.
In fact I'd say (again outside the first two seasons or so of TNG and DS9) that the shows have aged in reverse. ENT the most, followed by VOY, then DS9, then TNG.

Hard to examplain. Maybe I'm crazy.

I do know that when I was a kid/young adult I thought characters like Tom Paris were about a decade outdated even when VOY first showed. Something about some characters like Tom screamed "this is what adults think kids think is cool". Also the terrible cases of 90s slightly too poofy hair to so many characters. TNG's S3-7 I swear are timeless like Star Wars.

 

[Kebron]

While I think DISC is garbage compared to VOY and even ENT... There's something about VOY and ENT that makes them age worse than TNG and DS9. Outside of the earliest seasons of both TNG and DS9, later seasons of both shows have aged better than VOY and ENT in my opinion. There's something really... "TV show" about them sometimes.
In fact I'd say (again outside the first two seasons or so of TNG and DS9) that the shows have aged in reverse. ENT the most, followed by VOY, then DS9, then TNG.

Hard to examplain. Maybe I'm crazy.

I do know that when I was a kid/young adult I thought characters like Tom Paris were about a decade outdated even when VOY first showed. Something about some characters like Tom screamed "this is what adults think kids think is cool". Also the terrible cases of 90s slightly too poofy hair to so many characters. TNG's S3-7 I swear are timeless like Star Wars.

IMO Voyager and Enterprise never really committed to serial story telling like DS9 did. They also didn’t fully commit to an episodic formula like TNG. They kind of floated in this middle territory between the two. Which just makes both ok instead of excellent.

 

[DParga21]

IMO Voyager and Enterprise never really committed to serial story telling like DS9 did. They also didn’t fully commit to an episodic formula like TNG. They kind of floated in this middle territory between the two. Which just makes both ok instead of excellent.

Voyager had directives from the executives to be episodic, in spite of the basic premise of the show. Likewise, the Temporal Cold War stuff was basically forced on Brannon Braga from the Paramount executives. Braga was more interested in the story revolving around the Vulcans and Andorians. By the time season 4 came around, Les Monves was in a pissing match with Rick Berman, and Monves canceled Enterprise mostly out of spite.
I don't know of that changes how you view the series, but when I hear stories like that, I marvel that we got anything watchable at all.

 

[davejames]

For me the best thing about Voyager is that it kept Berman and the studio distracted enough that Behr was free to do whatever he wanted with DS9.

 

[StarDude]

For me the best thing about Voyager is that it kept Berman and the studio distracted enough that Behr was free to do whatever he wanted with DS9.

Amen!

 

[S. Griffin]

For me the best thing about Voyager is that it kept Berman and the studio distracted enough that Behr was free to do whatever he wanted with DS9.

Mostly. It didn't stop him from harassing Terry Farrell into quitting the show. And according to Ira he and Rick definitely fought some battles about things on the show.

 

[Mike86]

So apparently Nanjin is saying there are going to be three versions of Spock from TWOK. Not sure if that applies to Kirk and McCoy too. Seems a bit excessive in my view and like he really wants to milk the TOS fans for every extra accessory he can.

I guess having the options are nice if you don’t want everything and don’t want to pay top dollar but not even sure what he all has to come with to justify three versions. The big accessory I can see is the warp core. Other than that a second sculpt and the gloves.

 

[Skyroes]

Three versions does seem excessive. Aside from the standard accessories, I can see the top tier version including everything below with the white gloves and the second sculpt (radiated). Maybe the diorama that was shown off long ago will be included as well.

I think having Spock alone is enough for me.