Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (June 30th, 2023)

[Bleah]

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[LiamNeesons112]

I have no idea who this man is and yet I feel like I know exactly what he will say (but maybe I am being harsh - maybe he is alright).

I have a friend (who is also into movies) recommend 'The Critical Drinker' to me a little while back, and I watched a few of his videos in a row and while I found some of his criticism valid and his delivery funny, it became very clear what his political views were and what message he was trying to broadcast (in spite of his own vitriol at movies spreading 'the message') and I am just soooo sick of these rage-baity Youtubers who promote themselves as free thinkers yet seem to exist in their own echo chambers. Don't get me wrong on some things they get it right, there is plenty to criticize in modern cinema and I found Drinker's opinions on movies themselves (rather than thinly veiled attacks on the "politics" of the movie's he's reviewing) to be worth a listen... but I cannot stand when people unironically use the word woke, instantly call any main female character a mary sue (dont get me wrong they do happen and Disney is particularly prone to them in recent years) and basically try to hide their thinly veiled vitriol under critical analysis.

Joe definitely isn’t very political on his channel. However, when it’s been necessary, he has had to call out some of his followers in the comment section for acting like the man you’re describing.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I feel sorry for Joe. He's clearly on meds. Joe's the goof, right? With his two McMahons.

 

[lordnastrond]

Joe definitely isn’t very political on his channel. However, when it’s been necessary, he has had to call out some of his followers in the comment section for acting like the man you’re describing.

That's good to hear, he sounds alright - I'll check his channel out.

 

[Felinx]

Four things I took away from DoD:

1. they pretty much now have the technological option available to make a 1930s/1940s set Indy live action movie - not just an opening sequence. The digital de-ageing/CGI face work in this movie wasn't perfect 100% of the time, but it was the closest I've seen, and it was staggering/exciting to see it continuously and (mostly) convincingly used in a nearly 20 min sequence that was a TON of fun and was easily worth the price of admission (it's a little standalone Indy movie) and clearly illustrated that an all-digital Indy movie could work.

2. The macguffin in this movie lacked stakes and was incomprehensible in a really fundamental way. That problem seeped out into the wider movie, diluting tension and even believability at every turn. What it actually was, how it worked, how it came to be... why we should care. Hard to get into without plot spoilers, but to me this was the central thing that weakened the movie.

3. The entire end sequence is one the most bizarre, completely non-sensical, seemingly pot-induced climaxes to any major movie I've seen in years, despite being sort of silly fun and visually spectacular at a few points. It plays like an action thriller version of a Monty Python movie.

4. It's not a good thing where the movie's villain's plan might have actually saved millions of lives had he succeeded.

 

[Felinx]

Well I've stayed out of the thread for close to a month now to avoid spoilers.
My last still hopeful post above^, based on one of the last trailers was from May. Havn't since read any spoilers, comments or reviews going in.
Movie was entertaining, but not great, thrilling ride in some parts, dragged in others, rickety old Ford playing rickety old Jones, was about what I expected. Actually fun, and always seemed true to the character.
I liked the McGufin device that ropes him into one last adventure, and a bizarre opportunity to expericance the past.
Waller made for a great adversarial foil / common goal. Wish we'd seen more of Rhys-Davies, and something more substantial with Banderas, though he served the small role. And seeing Marion at the end was charming.
I enjoyed it more than Crystal.
Franchise should have ended with last crusade, but I love the character, and this was another fun ride.

Yeah poor Antonio Banderas - like ten forgettable grunts of dialogue. Hey, he did get an action figure of himself though.

Yes it was certainly a bit of an improvement over KOTCS, though as everyone always says, that's not exactly praise.

But I will say one thing - if a pilot at a noisy nightclub offers to use some paper cups with sharpied dials to teach you how to fly a plane in a five minute lesson, even if you're like 13 years old, go ahead and take him up on it, because yes: you really could get a plane off the ground and fly it in the midst of a massive electrical storm.

 

[Felinx]

I can tell you this; my kids are 10 and 6 and have zero interest in anything Indiana Jones and I’ve truly tried; the only came to to see it with me for soda and popcorn. I think that plus how terrible KotCS is why this movie won’t do good box office numbers. Half the people who might see this in theater are probably just going to pirate it as well.

I really didn’t find this movie boring at all and Helena was def no Mary Sue. I will say this movie does nothings extraordinary, but I wasn’t expecting it to. I don’t know why anyone would expect groundbreaking cinema for the fifth installment of a franchise that really only people born before 1990 may have an affinity for.

I’ll take this as a proper closing to right the mistake of that horror show we called Indy 4. I think if you're looking for anything more than that, you’re just setting yourself up for disappointment. Raiders, ToD and Crusade still reign supreme, but this does the job for me to set Indy off into the sunset. You’re not wrong if you disagree, but I hope anyone who hasn’t seen it yet goes in with an open mind.

My wife (who fell asleep several times in this movie) went to dinner just before the movie and there was a large table of maybe ten guys who were clearly going to see the movie - all talking Indy stuff - and they were all of a "certain age" (over 40,) with not a wife nor kid in sight. They were in our half-full Friday night 8pm session.

 

[jye4ever]

Almost 90% audience rating!

I’m seiing romoorrow night right now i’m super intoxicated lol

 

[Mandible]

LOL

LOLOLOL

Ask yourself this....why isnit always you and your 3 fan-club members who are all posting non stop about them?

Same guys, hating every modern hero thats not male, bashing any film thats not the great white hero trope.

We know who we are talking about.

I could cut and paste your typical replies to female film stars that do anything besides look like a *** object.

And yet you tell Raymond to stop wasting his breath, yet here you are wasting yours

I love how you think you outright know people and therefore judge them. Classic behavior. You can't stand that people have different likes and dislikes and automatically label them as a derogatory term and unapologetically call them names because they don't like/agree/align with what you do.

You're so blinded by your own BS, it's bizarre, hiding behind this narrative and using it as a weapon and armor.

I guarantee if you bothered to sit down and discuss things without putting on the blinkers you'd probably find that 99% of decent people would agree on most things.

 

[Khev]

I'm pretty sure I will love the opening sequence and de-aging.

It's the rest of the movie that I think I will grow to hate over the remaining two hours plus in running time.

Saw it today and had the opposite reaction to those two segments of the movie. First 20 minutes felt like I was watching Polar Express meets Nazi Germany from Captain America: The First Avenger. I just couldn't accept Indy as anything other than a cartoon. However with that said I didn't "hate" the opening sequence, not by a longshot. It was "fun," just jarringly different from a "real" Indy sequence. Funnily enough it actually made me really happy to see "old" Indy since it was finally really him so maybe that was their ingenious way of pulling that off, lol.

I honestly really enjoyed the movie. My son did too. It's definitely not a classic and in some ways feels like a bit of a hodge-podge of "Never Say Never Again" and "Matrix Resurrections" (yes the fourth Matrix that most of you hated, lol.) But I liked Matrix 4 and I won't say what was similar between that and DOD because it'd get too spoilery.

Overall I just found it to be a fun adventure movie. I was going to say "old fashioned adventure movie" but not too old because it's really closer to the first two Mummy movies with its good natured vibe that is juxtaposed with frequent occurrences of obvious CGI.

Enjoyable characters, enjoyable bad guys, nobody's arc got "ruined" (in my mind anyway) or anything like that. He doesn't give the hat to Phoebe or anything so people can definitely relax about that. Most of the time he plays the role like Danny Glover in Lethal Weapon who only begrudgingly does stuff that he clearly feels too old for. And that was a really good way to go IMO.

I read no spoilers beforehand so wow the bonkers third act totally came out of the blue for me which I actually found to be a lot of fun.

Like I said this movie is absolutely not a classic but I can quite confidently say that it's probably my 3rd favorite of the series overall so definitely a fun way to pass two hours in a theater. I must say it was a real treat seeing Harrison Ford in character with John Williams' score echoing through the auditorium, probably the last time EVER I'll see a new movie with him playing any of his classic characters. A satisfying enough send-off IMO.

 

[Khev]

I really didn’t find this movie boring at all and Helena was def no Mary Sue.

Agreed.

I’ll take this as a proper closing to right the mistake of that horror show we called Indy 4.

I almost stood up and cheered when Indy started blasting away with his pistol which I don't think he did once in KOTCS. Sorry Steven your walkie-talkie reign of terror has come to an end, lol.

 

[meanstreak]

I just came back from the film and I enjoyed it as well. I thought the action was fun and done well. The pacing was good and I liked the new characters. The ending was perfect.

 

[Otomofan]

But I liked Matrix 4 and I won't say what was similar between that and DOD because it'd get too spoilery.

I also liked Matrix 4. I think we're the only two people in the world that did.

it's really closer to the first two Mummy movies with its good natured vibe

Good natured vibe? This movie was dark man! Put aside all the "misery of dying alone in a world he can't understand anymore" stuff....what about all those innocent people murdered? Indy's co-workers at the college got gunned down in cold blood. His old buddy and all that guy's friends were slaughtered, too. I didn't enjoy that at all.

 

[Felinx]

I don't care too much for the silly opening of Last Crusade (despite River's good mock).

I like the white tuxedo Indy opening up to the silly fight and escape in ToD. Also don't like the weird dance number that goes out onto some 3rd plane of existence in the dragon's mouth.

Crystal Skull's opening was so slow and plodding, I barely remember it aside from that ***** saying "Jonesy" constantly. The "fight" on the rocket car could have been great, but wasn't.

Raiders opening was perfection -- it was supposed to match the best of the Bond openings and I'm surprised the filmmakers could never come up with a worthy opening sequence again that wasn't jokey.

Dial of Destiny sounds too long to be considered an "opening sequence", but it actually has a chance of being the 2nd best Indy opening of the movies... which is quite something.

I'd say its the second best Indy opening behind Raiders. It has a great authenticity but still a surprising amount of Indy humor and fun. The train part does have a few CGI-looking shots but overall it's a fun 20 min standalone Indy movie (that when posted in 4K on YT in a few months will get millions of views) that so outshines everything that comes after it - again, raising the question of why (after another few years of working on that uncanny valley - this is CGI done two years ago) we couldn't just extend that 20 minutes of de-aged to 120 minutes.

 

[Mandible]

Two ridiculous things I keep thinking about that aren't really being discussed, the first one in particular is just baffling::

When he leaves he's wanted for murder, on the tv, etc - but there's no conclusion to that???? There's no way to prove him innocent because all involved are dead, so it just gets forgotten? WTF???

And Madds being smashed in the face by a piece of metal at about 60 mph, knocked off the train into oblivion, and everything is hunky dory? There's been some stretches in previous Indy's but that one is a new level of stretch.

 

[Felinx]

And yet you tell Raymond to stop wasting his breath, yet here you are wasting yours

I love how you think you outright know people and therefore judge them. Classic behavior. You can't stand that people have different likes and dislikes and automatically label them as a derogatory term and unapologetically call them names because they don't like/agree/align with what you do.

You're so blinded by your own BS, it's bizarre, hiding behind this narrative and using it as a weapon and armor.

I guarantee if you bothered to sit down and discuss things without putting on the blinkers you'd probably find that 99% of decent people would agree on most things.

C'mon now, respect those folks who are on the front line against the insidious new global Nazi mega-threat. Unbeknownst to us sheep, just like Cher predicted, they're trying to turn back time.... with the dreaded Antikythera supremacy restorer!

 

[The Buffinator]

Saw it today and had the opposite reaction to those two segments of the movie. First 20 minutes felt like I was watching Polar Express meets Nazi Germany from Captain America: The First Avenger. I just couldn't accept Indy as anything other than a cartoon. However with that said I didn't "hate" the opening sequence, not by a longshot. It was "fun," just jarringly different from a "real" Indy sequence. Funnily enough it actually made me really happy to see "old" Indy since it was finally really him so maybe that was their ingenious way of pulling that off, lol.

I honestly really enjoyed the movie. My son did too. It's definitely not a classic and in some ways feels like a bit of a hodge-podge of "Never Say Never Again" and "Matrix Resurrections" (yes the fourth Matrix that most of you hated, lol.) But I liked Matrix 4 and I won't say what was similar between that and DOD because it'd get too spoilery.

Overall I just found it to be a fun adventure movie. I was going to say "old fashioned adventure movie" but not too old because it's really closer to the first two Mummy movies with its good natured vibe that is juxtaposed with frequent occurrences of obvious CGI.

Enjoyable characters, enjoyable bad guys, nobody's arc got "ruined" (in my mind anyway) or anything like that. He doesn't give the hat to Phoebe or anything so people can definitely relax about that. Most of the time he plays the role like Danny Glover in Lethal Weapon who only begrudgingly does stuff that he clearly feels too old for. And that was a really good way to go IMO.

I read no spoilers beforehand so wow the bonkers third act totally came out of the blue for me which I actually found to be a lot of fun.

Like I said this movie is absolutely not a classic but I can quite confidently say that it's probably my 3rd favorite of the series overall so definitely a fun way to pass two hours in a theater. I must say it was a real treat seeing Harrison Ford in character with John Williams' score echoing through the auditorium, probably the last time EVER I'll see a new movie with him playing any of his classic characters. A satisfying enough send-off IMO.

Wow, we're in 100% agreement on this. The de-aging in the first 20 minutes just didn't hold up for me. There were moments where it was amazingly good, but the more they pushed the action (& his seemingly endless interactions with German soldiers going from train car to train car) the more it lost its realism. And there was the long distance shot of his running atop the train where the CGI of him reminded me of Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan running/jumping in the Phantom Menace. And while I much preferred "old" Indy as well, that wasn't immediately the case - I really could have done without seeing a shirtless 80 year old Harrison Ford.

I agree on the Mummy parallels as well, maybe with a dash of National Treasure thrown in for good measure. And at times I also got Roger Murtaugh vibes from Indy, which I thought was a good choice on their part. And I too thoroughly enjoyed the third act and had no idea it was coming.

Spoiler

I was also surprised when Voller's true goal was revealed - basically to "Out-Hitler" Hitler by going back and killing him and then eliminating his "mistakes" such that Germany would be victorious. Not quite the loyal Nazi way of changing the past that one would expect lol. So he was every bit as evil as Hitler, but in a cold, detached mathematical way.

 

[jedibear]

Whew...I'm as good as running through and lobbing grenades as the next guy, but...c'mon gang. Some are veering a little close to personal attack territory here. Let's dial* back the rhetoric a bit before somebody shows up with the ban bat!

*hehe see what I did there

 

[Khev]

Wow, we're in 100% agreement on this. The de-aging in the first 20 minutes just didn't hold up for me. There were moments where it was amazingly good, but the more they pushed the action (& his seemingly endless interactions with German soldiers going from train car to train car) the more it lost its realism. And there was the long distance shot of his running atop the train where the CGI of him reminded me of Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan running/jumping in the Phantom Menace. And while I much preferred "old" Indy as well, that wasn't immediately the case - I really could have done without seeing a shirtless 80 year old Harrison Ford.

I agree on the Mummy parallels as well, maybe with a dash of National Treasure thrown in for good measure. And at times I also got Roger Murtaugh vibes from Indy, which I thought was a good choice on their part. And I too thoroughly enjoyed the third act and had no idea it was coming.

Spoiler

I was also surprised when Voller's true goal was revealed - basically to "Out-Hitler" Hitler by going back and killing him and then eliminating his "mistakes" such that Germany would be victorious. Not quite the loyal Nazi way of changing the past that one would expect lol. So he was every bit as evil as Hitler, but in a cold, detached mathematical way.

Agreed on absolutely all counts especially that absolutely atrocious visual of Shrek-level Gingerbread Man Indy hopping from the top of one train car to another.

Yes Voller's goal was freaking amazing though again the

Spoiler

First Avenger parallels continue as it makes his motives very similar to the Red Skull's, lol.

 

[Khev]

Good natured vibe? This movie was dark man! Put aside all the "misery of dying alone in a world he can't understand anymore" stuff....what about all those innocent people murdered? Indy's co-workers at the college got gunned down in cold blood. His old buddy and all that guy's friends were slaughtered, too. I didn't enjoy that at all.

Eh, it's not like he ever punches a woman in the face, then smacks a kid in the face, then shackles a woman so that she can be sacrificed in lava so no I didn't find this particularly dark, lol. And these types of movies need more innocents being gunned down in cold blood, everything is so sanitized these days.

As for

Spoiler

"his old buddy getting slaughtered" I thought thank God because I was immediately worried that they were going back to KOTCS with him running around with a woman, a kid, and two old guys. Then BLAM, nope. Phew, lol.

As for him feeling misery I just trusted that the narrative would end in satisfying fashion which it did and figured that Harrison wanted an excuse to give Indy a little more emotional range so it didn't bother me. And I thought that this movie did a much better job of showing Indy as a man out of time than KOTCS did especially after having watched Raiders and TLC so recently.