Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (June 30th, 2023)

[davejames]

I've read that the first look of Indy was a bit of a mash-up to begin with. Bag and pants from a surplus ww2 store, and the jacket was made very quickly by ' leather commissionaries' aka Wested at short notice and was aged by Ford and the costume designer the night before the first day of shooting. Definitely sounded a bit last minute!

Yeah I kinda suspect the reason so many people see that as the "ideal Indy look" is just because it's his look in the first and best Indy movie. Ford still looks just as cool in the other movies with the slightly different hat or slightly looser jacket. And I honestly never gave it a second thought when the movies originally came out. Plus you would kind of expect Indy to get his outfit from different sources and suppliers over the years.

And while I'm not crazy about the changes made in Dial, it's pretty far down the list of problems in that movie for me.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I agree -- Indy should have variants to his outfit while still capturing the basic "hero outfit". I'm fine with Temple of Doom's changes. I think, for me, it was Last Crusade where I really started to notice the differences, not in a good way. The hat being small, the boxy, fake weathered jacket, the "pink" pants, the pale web belt, etc. There was something lazy about it, for lack of a better word. The ridiculous "tie" didn't help. Why the hell would he wear a tie -- with that outfit -- for his father? Everything seemed like a punchline in that movie -- like someone joked "he should wear a tie to meet his Dad" and everyone laughed and said "yeah, let's do that"...

 

[davejames]

I've kinda grown to like the tie, as nonsensical as it is. I always assumed it was mean to signify a more "mature" Indy in that movie. Or perhaps just because Spielberg thought it would help him pass better in the various disguises he wears.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Or perhaps just because Spielberg thought it would help him pass better in the various disguises he wears.

I'm sure you've just given it more thought than anyone on set did back then.

The only thing I like about it, is that it tells warns me that its Last Crusade Indy.

 

[EVILFACE]

This is a good video about the devolution of Indiana Jones' costume in the sequels. I never realized how much they ******up the costume in the sequels.



What original costume looked like

View attachment 689760

Sequels/Dial of whatever...
View attachment 689761

Personally I’ve always loved this look:

The Raiders outfit does look the best, but all the outfit versions look fine on Harrison Ford. They look goofy on this guy. I would t expect Indy to be wearing the exact same clothes for decades.

French is hit and miss. The last few years he is just making long winded grumpy old man videos because things aren’t like they used to be. Or pushing people to buy his buddies bootleg offerings like the Airwolf that people got scammed over.

 

[Mondragon]

Personally I’ve always loved this look:

Love it. While that issue wasn't by Steranko, after Kirby, Steranko did help define the look and tone for the more Adventure seeking Nick Fury for a generation which included Lucas and Spielberg. Not as celebrated as McQuarrie is for SW, Steranko (amongst many other influences Bogart, Lad's China, Heston's Incas, Spy Smasher, Zorro and other serials etc..) then helped realize the design and presence of Indiana Jones (chomping cigarillo here), as well as his illustrations for Rober E Howard's El Borak (sadly even less known by todays supposed fandom) , which Lucas referenced as a starting template. (Lucas' actual notes on Steranko's El Borak)

Steranko doesn't seem nearly as celebrated as McQuarrie is for SW in helping realize the design and presence of Indiana Jones.
Yet he left an awesome visual impact.

Going forward personally I have little interest in whatever direction or inevitable reboot Disney and some fans are reimagining the character for modern audience.
Be it plastic Ryan Gosling or Chris Pine, or the likes? Or worse knowing Disney, their new gender and race swapped Indy, or legacy character.
Who will now be a virtue signaling social justice warrior, trying to steal artifacts from the evil museums, and return them to their original place? Or however they want to ruin the character.

Rant warning:
For me Jones pretty much began and ends with the Steranko drawings and Ford's portrayal.

There is however if they wanted to continue the spirit of the franchise without ruining Jones, a somewhat less defined prototype character I would follow
And it wouldn't be so much a reboot degrading the original, but more a prequel, adding to it.

That is the untold adventures of Fedora/Abner Ravenwood (in the original script) before he had Marion or met young Jones.
Moving away from the virtue signaling garbage Disney is moving towards, and instead moving even further back into the pulps, and movie serials Lucas and Spielberg grew up with.

A more morally ambiguous character, even more of a soldier of fortune, closer to the gritty hard-boiled Steranko take . Being somewhat less defined they can still cast someone new to great effect ....

Though it makes to much sense, and would actually have to add to the franchise not replace it, so they will never do it.

Unfortunately, instead the new "creators" at Disney who don't actually like and resent this^ character and the world he represents, will want to reboot (I mean "fix") Jones, to their likeness and todays audience.
That fantastic Steranko drawing is the absolute antithesis of that, he represents everything they hate.

 

[Wor-Gar]

That fantastic Steranko drawing is the absolute antithesis of that, he represents everything they hate.

Sadly, this...

 

[Asta]

 

[Mr.E]

In my opinion, it was a missed opportunity that Charlton Heston wasn't cast as Fedora in The Last Crusade. That would have been perfect.

 

[Raiders March]

I think its time for Indiana Jones to bow out. He didnt get the best send off the character deserved. But it was reasonable. We will always have the 80s trilogy which for me, firmly anchored my love for the character and his adventures. Its time to leave well enough alone!

 

[JohnnyStarTrek]

I think its time for Indiana Jones to bow out. He didnt get the best send off the character deserved. But it was reasonable. We will always have the 80s trilogy which for me, firmly anchored my love for the character and his adventures. Its time to leave well enough alone!

The only aspect of DOD I didn't like was Indy in a run down apartment in NYC. I just don't believe it- when you look at his life starting.in 1908 as an 8-year old traveling the world with his successful Professor father & his Tutor in "Young Indy"; and he's.obviously a successful Professor/Archeologist in the movies. Marital problems/ Mutt dying isn't not gonna put.him in a dump pad. That's not true to the character.

I liked DOD otherwise, and.love we can watch his fictional life from "The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles" thru the film series. But times have changed & its time to retire the character for good

 

[a-dev]

I think its time for Indiana Jones to bow out. He didnt get the best send off the character deserved. But it was reasonable. We will always have the 80s trilogy which for me, firmly anchored my love for the character and his adventures. Its time to leave well enough alone!

The only aspect of DOD I didn't like was Indy in a run down apartment in NYC. I just don't believe it- when you look at his life starting.in 1908 as an 8-year old traveling the world with his successful Professor father & his Tutor in "Young Indy"; and he's.obviously a successful Professor/Archeologist in the movies. Marital problems/ Mutt dying isn't not gonna put.him in a dump pad. That's not true to the character.

I liked DOD otherwise, and.love we can watch his fictional life from "The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles" thru the film series. But times have changed & its time to retire the character for good

Disney responds

 

[karamazov80]

I think its time for Indiana Jones to bow out. He didnt get the best send off the character deserved. But it was reasonable. We will always have the 80s trilogy which for me, firmly anchored my love for the character and his adventures. Its time to leave well enough alone!

Having observed so many attempts to sequelize, reboot, and reimagine every reasonably popular IP under the sun over the years, I have changed my opinion about this somewhat. In times past I would have totally agreed with you. However, good storytelling is good storytelling, and if someone found the right script, the right actors, and the right director to take care of it all I wouldn't be against someone bringing Indy back in some fashion. If they could do what George Miller did with Mad Max or what Villeneuve did with Blade Runner, then that could be awesome.

But the sad reality is that studios don't care about good stories well told, and so we get junk like Dial of Destiny 9/10 times they attempt this. From that perspective I'm in alignment with the opinion that it's better to leave it alone, but there is always a chance. . . Putting that aside, ultimately, they could let Tyler Perry, Paul Feig, and Michael Bay collaborate on the worst Indy excrement imaginable, and it wouldn't hurt my opinion of the first two films if they made. So, power to them to do whatever. They continue to run Star Wars and Marvel into the ground, what makes Indy any more special?

 

[Mr.E]

I don't have high hopes for that Furiosa prequel though.

And I STILL think Fury Road would have been better if Gibson came back. Though I do think Tom Hardy has matured as an actor since then.

 

[Raiders March]

Having observed so many attempts to sequelize, reboot, and reimagine every reasonably popular IP under the sun over the years, I have changed my opinion about this somewhat. In times past I would have totally agreed with you. However, good storytelling is good storytelling, and if someone found the right script, the right actors, and the right director to take care of it all I wouldn't be against someone bringing Indy back in some fashion. If they could do what George Miller did with Mad Max or what Villeneuve did with Blade Runner, then that could be awesome.

But the sad reality is that studios don't care about good stories well told, and so we get junk like Dial of Destiny 9/10 times they attempt this. From that perspective I'm in alignment with the opinion that it's better to leave it alone, but there is always a chance. . . Putting that aside, ultimately, they could let Tyler Perry, Paul Feig, and Michael Bay collaborate on the worst Indy excrement imaginable, and it wouldn't hurt my opinion of the first two films if they made. So, power to them to do whatever. They continue to run Star Wars and Marvel into the ground, what makes Indy any more special?

Unfortunately for me, the more they churn out this stuff, the more it tarnishes the franchises I love. Indy, SW, Alien, Predator and now even Bond. I get they are series to expand on, but not using the same sh%&*y toilet brush time after time that actually smells bad.
Wow me with something impressive, or otherwise just flush it away!

 

[karamazov80]

I don't have high hopes for that Furiosa prequel though.

And I STILL think Fury Road would have been better if Gibson came back. Though I do think Tom Hardy has matured as an actor since then.

Miller has earned the benefit of the doubt from me, but there is always a risk of going to the well too often.

You may be right about Gibson, as well. A grizzled old Max could have been great. But at the same time, he carries so much personal baggage that I imagine pulling him into a major film as the lead could be challenging for studios. I'm personally able to put all that stuff to the side, but I appreciate that some can't or don't want to.

 

[loki2371]

Indiana Jones & the Dial of Destiny Was a Massive Box Office Loss for Disney

The report reveals that $79 million of that went to post-production costs and once movie theaters took their share of the sequel's global gross of $384 million, the House of Mouse was left with loss of $134.2 million.

The original Forbes article also states that that loss doesn't include the marketing budget. So that could be easily another $150mil on top of the $134. Could be as much as $300 mil loss.

 

[Mandible]

"Impossible to fail"

 

[Rogerbee]

I haven't bought the movie on DVD. Note I didn't say 'yet' in the previous sentence. It feels wrong somehow that I don't want to buy DOD, it's an Indy movie! But hey, it is what it is. I do like KOTCS, but, part of me still wishes they'd left it at the OT. TLC was the perfect place to leave things with everyone living to fight another day.

 

[Sixth Scale Man]

Yeah I rewatched TLC - a movie I really didn't like all that much back in the day - last year and really liked it much better The OT really did work for me as a unit finally.

You chose wisely