Is the Ape Line Cancelled?

[Protozaius]

After writing a long winded e-mail to Sideshow's website I got this as a response:

"Thank you for your e-mail, I am very sorry for the confusion but we have not announced that we are ending the Planet of the Apes line."

So what does this mean??? Is the Ape line still alive or is this another example of Sideshow wanting to keep collectors in the dark about the fate of their favorite lines?

If Sideshow doesn't have any plans on continuing the line, no artists are current working on any products, isn't that the same thing as being cancelled? Like any animal, if you stop feeding a line with new additions doesn't it eventually die?

 

[ironman1188]

Typical Sideshow. You got that email response, but no one could come to any of the NUMEROUS posts about keeping the line alive and post a yay or nay response? And didn't this whole thing begin with a post where someone said one of the SS ViP's mentioned it was over in a chat??
If it is not ending, please announce the next new figures and their release dates.

 

[Occulum]

My 2 cents on this is that I recall Mat Falls (one of SS's founders) mentioning in one of the chats that he is a huge POTA fan. Thats why he does many of the sculpts for the line. He also said that the line wasn't doing very well.
So my guess is that the POTA line is on it's last breath, but even SS doesnt want to bury the line and is reluctant to do/say so because they want it to go on as much as many of the collectors do. But SS cant put the time, money, effort into manufacturing something that they can't profit from or at least pays for itself.
If sales for current figures go up, Im sure that will spark new ones to go into production asap. But then again, that could already be happening.

 

[ironman1188]

If sales for current figures go up, Im sure that will spark new ones to go into production asap. But then again, that could already be happening.

With accessories like a paper poster and paint ops that look "stitched" it certainly won't help sales.

 

[dstephan]

They will never say a line is cancelled. Hogan's Heroes, Get Smart, Spinal Tap, Monty Python - none of those lines were announced as cancelled either.

 

[ironman1188]

They will never say a line is cancelled. Hogan's Heroes, Get Smart, Spinal Tap, Monty Python - none of those lines were announced as cancelled either.

Happy Days???.......

 

[SideshowDusty]

The reason no one from production ever comes on and says a definite "Yes the ______ license is over" or "No it is not" is because most of the time no one really knows. Almost nothing is 100% definite. It's not that they are intentionally with-holding information from collectors like it's a game or something, it's just that if they were to say one thing, and then a few months later they are proven to be mistaken, they'd never hear the end of it (which has happened in the past). Only specific partnerships that have time limitations are at all definite - for instance the Sideshow/Weta partnership.

And I honestly believe that most of these lines mentioned above that are in hiatus are lines that our sculptors would love very much to revisit at some point - IF the production round table decides it's something they want to go ahead with. Keep in mind that figuring out what to release (and when) is a team decision and there are a limited amount of resources and time that can be dedicated to each line, so it is quite a complicated and multi-layered decision making process.

Concerning POTA, if I remember correctly, one of the production guys off-handedly remarked during one of the Comic Con chats that most of the main characters, and a few of the secondary, from POTA had been realized in the 12" line, so the POTA movies had been pretty well covered. It was by no means a "this line is 100% ending". I think I've made this point here before, but you can definitely use the 2-year hiatus of Buffy figures as an example.

I'm sorry that it irks some collectors to not have a definitive answer to every question, but the world is full of shades of gray - licensing and product release schedules happen to be a couple of pretty large gray areas for companies that manufacture collectibles :toast

 

[Migwit]

Well said and well done, SSDusty! Thanks for providing what information you can, as I, for one, much appreciate it!

 

[William Shatners Toupee]

Thanks for the 411, Sideshow Dusty!

 

[Protozaius]

Indefinitely Retired... NOT cancelled

I understand and appreciate your position, Dusty. I did not want to come off as some whiny collector who can't look beyond his own self interests to see the big picture. I am well aware that there is plenty of gray out there.

I guess I shouldn't have thrown around the word "cancelled" when it came to the Ape line. It didn't quite describe the situation. It's too strong a term. Perhaps "indefinitely retired" is a better fit. I guess I'm just a little sad to see POTA enter that catagory.

Obviously, the Apes license is not a young license. It doesn't have what Buffy has... a growing cult following that grew stronger with every release of each season on DVD to re-juvenate the figure line. It doesn't have a sequel waiting in the wings like Hellboy has.

And unlike other older licenses like Star Wars or Star Trek, it doesn't have the expanded universe of comics and novels to pump fresh blood to the property. Geez...it is mind boggling to grasp the amount of hours of television Star Trek has behind it. So comparatively, the world of the Apes is fairly small. The only thing I see that might breathe more life to it is if Zanuck finally delivers his promise of a sequel to Burton's remake... and who really wants that?

Basically, I feel once POTA slips to the "indefinitely retired" catagory, there will be nothing that will give it life again... it has already been labeled a financial disappointment by Sideshow. Therefore, how eager would the production round table be to greenlight new figures? Would they ever find a concrete reason to re-visit the Planet of the Apes.... ever.

So I have been trying to propose, however futile the attempt, a way that we Ape fans could get a few figures before the door closes on the line. A few low cost additions (see other threads) to the Ape line that wouldn't taxi the "limited amount of resources and time that can be dedicated to each line" as you, Dusty as aptly stated.

I'm sorry if I came across as pushy... I just love this line!

 

[ironman1188]

Thank you Dusty!! Once again you have come forth with at least some kind of an answer for us.
And I understand about not wanting to say "yes it is" or "no it's not" as nothing in this world ever is completely 100%. However, you mention the 2 year return from the dead of Buffy, and it was good to see it return. What other line has? Twilight Zone? Outer Limits? Hogan's Heroes? Get Smart? and while we've had some Universal Monsters offerings we still wait for Ygor and Maleva. It just doesn't bode well for a line to enter hiatus. Ever have a favorite TV show that you really enjoyed and the network announced it wasn't cancelled, just going on hiatus? Ever have that show never return to the airways? A figure line that the company feels has been "pretty well covered" doesn't exude too much hope of returning from the Forbidden Zone.
As Protozaius said there have been some posts concerning ways to get some other figures made but, again, that final decision would lie in Sideshow's hands.
I do, however, sincerely thank you for continually coming forward with a response, whether its what we want to hear or not, for us.

 

[Dusty]

I understand and appreciate your position, Dusty. I did not want to come off as some whiny collector who can't look beyond his own self interests to see the big picture. I am well aware that there is plenty of gray out there.

I guess I shouldn't have thrown around the word "cancelled" when it came to the Ape line. It didn't quite describe the situation. It's too strong a term. Perhaps "indefinitely retired" is a better fit. I guess I'm just a little sad to see POTA enter that catagory.

Obviously, the Apes license is not a young license. It doesn't have what Buffy has... a growing cult following that grew stronger with every release of each season on DVD to re-juvenate the figure line. It doesn't have a sequel waiting in the wings like Hellboy has.

And unlike other older licenses like Star Wars or Star Trek, it doesn't have the expanded universe of comics and novels to pump fresh blood to the property. Geez...it is mind boggling to grasp the amount of hours of television Star Trek has behind it. So comparatively, the world of the Apes is fairly small. The only thing I see that might breathe more life to it is if Zanuck finally delivers his promise of a sequel to Burton's remake... and who really wants that?

Basically, I feel once POTA slips to the "indefinitely retired" catagory, there will be nothing that will give it life again... it has already been labeled a financial disappointment by Sideshow. Therefore, how eager would the production round table be to greenlight new figures? Would they ever find a concrete reason to re-visit the Planet of the Apes.... ever.

So I have been trying to propose, however futile the attempt, a way that we Ape fans could get a few figures before the door closes on the line. A few low cost additions (see other threads) to the Ape line that wouldn't taxi the "limited amount of resources and time that can be dedicated to each line" as you, Dusty as aptly stated.

I'm sorry if I came across as pushy... I just love this line!

No problem at all Protozaius - all opinions and comments are valid of course! I was just trying to do my part to clear up some misunderstandings. And I *totally* understand your love for the line. Everything you say is true, and it's sad as a fan to come to the conclusion that your favorite franchise is not developing a lot of new recruits to its fanbase... Although Ironman is definitely doing his part to recruit new POTA fans!!

Everyone here wishes that we had all the answers, but more often than not there just aren't any definites. The future is always murky in any business that relies on public demand - but sometimes it's fun that way - like when something totally unexpected gets the green light and pushes expectations to a new level, like the Doom Premium Format has done

 

[stickman]

Ape line not cancelled!

WooHoo!
Thanks Dusty!! So you're saying that we can expect at least three new ape figures within the next year? Alright!!!! LOL

 

[Dr_Zaius]

All in all though, I still don't think that Sideshow is giving the Ape fans a fair treatment. Their have been a few that have sold out!! Dr.Zaius, Forbidden Zone Taylor, The Exclusive Soldier Ape, the regular Soldier Ape, and the Taylor and Nova set as well as the regular Taylor. Granted, most of these are at the "Second Chance" stage now but all in all I think that is pretty good. And look at the poll on this site. Out side of Buffy and Universal Monsters, POTA IS and HAS BEEN holding it's own. I agree with IRONMAN, Sideshow could at least hear their Ape suppoerters and give us a little pat in the back buy offering us a limited, or even a very limited like the Vision Lawgiver, edition of the remaining Planet of the Apes line. Sideshow hasn't even touched Escape from the Planet of the Apes and Battle for the Planet of the Apes or the Apes TV series, and they have only just touched Conquest.
I would like to see them release the remaing figures as a set like they did Taylor and Nova.
Just my two cents

 

[Bonehead15]

All in all though, I still don't think that Sideshow is giving the Ape fans a fair treatment... I agree with IRONMAN, Sideshow could at least hear their Ape suppoerters and give us a little pat in the back buy offering us a limited, or even a very limited like the Vision Lawgiver...

No offense but SS has already done this. Remember Slave Brent and Beneath Taylor?? They probably weren't the figures most Apes wanted the most but they were as you said "very limited" pieces.

 

[Dr_Zaius]

Yeah your right but many of the fans, not me though, were somewhat displeased with the Prisoner Taylor and Slave Brent. On the Yahoo Groups that I am a part of many had stated that they did not like the Prisoner Taylor because he was the same Taylor as in the Taylor and Nova 2 pack but with the Beneath clothes. they felt like Sideshow was milking the line and should have released the clothes and club and gun as a carded set. (But then they would have bought another Taylor from the Slave Taylor and Nova set to dress him in and then they would have complained about that. ) I for one, think he was necessary and this was the only Taylor to use but then again that is my opinion. (He is my favorite of the Taylors Sideshow has released)
As far as the slave Brent, as well as the Astronaut Brent, I have heard many comments that he doesn't look like James Franciscus as much as he does Vincent Price. Now, I thnk he does resemble James Franciscus but not as much as the others in the Ape line resemble the actors who played them.

So, all in all, yeah Sideshow did do this but the lack of necessity and the poor Brent Sculpt (Not my opinion. I like him and bought 2 of each one) is what stoped the sales on these two. Only a true Ape collector is going to want to buy 4 Taylors no matter how different they are and a Brent who doesn't look all the way like the actor who played him.

All in all, I still say out of all of the Planet of the Apes lines I have ever see released, and this includes the Megos and the Medicoms which I have as well, I enjoy the SS Ape line the most and they look more life like than any of the other releases I have see up to this date.

 

[Dr_Zaius]

Mutant Jailer

Hey all, the Beneath the Planet of the Apes Mutant Jailer is SOLD OUT

 

[Protozaius]

When Sideshow unveiled the first wave of the Ape Line, they all had an edition size labeled "TBD" or to be determined. The reason for this I believe, is that they didn't know what the figures were going to do... they didn't have a clue as to the demand for these figures. Should they make 15,000 like the first Bond figure? Or 7500 like the first Hellboy figure? Both of THOSE figures by the way sold out. They just didn't know what kind of numbers that this line could support. They weren't going to produce 10,000 figures cold and have half of them sitting in their warehouse.

So when the figures were available for pre-order, sales were slow... MUCH slower than they had anticipated. So, they started caping the edition sizes between 3000-4000 to avoid over production. Dr. Zaius was the first to sell out at 3000... a relatively number considering the property. Yet the exclusive Zaius is STILL available with an edition size of only 500! The Taylors sold out quickly after Zaius.

Since then, Sideshow has set the edition sizes for the second wave of the Ape line EVEN LOWER. The regular edition Caesar and the Mutant leader stands at 2500, Astronaut Brent is a paltry 1750! And so far both exclusives of Caesar and Ursus is still available at 500 and Slave Brent is available as well at 400. Though it is good to hear that the Mutant Jailor is sold out at 500 pieces!

The big question is: what kind of numbers must Sideshow sell in order to consider the line successful? It's no secret that Sideshow views this line to be unsuccessful. So the continuation of this line seems somewhat hazy. Even Dusty chimed in to say that "most of the main characters, and a few of the secondary, from POTA had been realized in the 12" line, so the POTA movies had been pretty well covered." This view doesn't bode too well for the line's future, eh?

And Dr. Zaius, you mentioned the Brent likeness problem. Since you are relatively new to the board, this topic was discussed in another thread awhile back. A member of the Sideshow team disclosed at this year's San Diego Comic Con that the likeness of James Franciscus was not granted by the members of his estate for the Brent figure. So he couldn't look like the Brent we know. You will also note that the picture of him on the box with Nova from a scene of Beneath was also obscured. It was thought that it was better to have a Brent that looks the way he does than no Brent at all. I, and I'm sure that you (gathered by what you have said about the figure) would wholeheartedly agree with that.

 

[Ironman1188]

And Dr. Zaius, you mentioned the Brent likeness problem. Since you are relatively new to the board, this topic was discussed in another thread awhile back. A member of the Sideshow team disclosed at this year's San Diego Comic Con that the likeness of James Franciscus was not granted by the members of his estate for the Brent figure. So he couldn't look like the Brent we know. You will also note that the picture of him on the box with Nova from a scene of Beneath was also obscured. It was thought that it was better to have a Brent that looks the way he does than no Brent at all. I, and I'm sure that you (gathered by what you have said about the figure) would wholeheartedly agree with that.

Of course, that was the 2nd explanation that they gave, Doc. The first reason given was that the sculptor had tried to capture him, missed the mark, but the licensor had appoved it anyway and it was already in production.
I was a major player in pointing out the lack of likeness to everyone as I felt it lessened Sideshow's commitment to quality. After the topic was argued for quite a lengthy amount of time, Sideshow finally came about with the second explanation that Protozaius has quoted. The turnabout of answers lessens my faith in what they say a little.
Maybe they should have made Brent look more like Burt Reynolds, as he was the studios first choice for the role.

 

[Protozaius]

I wasn't going to burden the new Doc with the WHOLE history of the Brent debacle...

My post was long winded enough.

I see you felt differently.