Jazzinc 1/6 Batman 1989 Batmobile
- Thread starter Rondesmo
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I think it just comes down to the fact that a premium 1/12 vehicle doesn’t sell nearly as well as a corresponding 1/6 vehicle, proportionally priced. Just look at the BVS batmobile, for example.
I also think that there are arguably way more buyers for a really large 1/6 vehicle, as compared to the population of buyers that want the same vehicle, but just in a smaller form as to fit within their display environment.
From what I understand, the 1/6 1989 batmobile might very well be the best seller yet, even selling more than the 1966 batmobile, let alone the batwing. From a risk perspective, I believe it’s completely understandable to lead with the best seller.
Don’t forget, this is a second chance for 1/12 collectors to show up. I can’t speak for Joost, but I imagine if this doesn’t do well, that may very well be the end of the line for the 1/12 scale from jazzinc.
To be clear, that doesn’t have anything to do with HT showing a batwing they’ll never produce - it’s based on the proven appetite of the actual 1/12 market.
I also think that there are arguably way more buyers for a really large 1/6 vehicle, as compared to the population of buyers that want the same vehicle, but just in a smaller form as to fit within their display environment.
From what I understand, the 1/6 1989 batmobile might very well be the best seller yet, even selling more than the 1966 batmobile, let alone the batwing. From a risk perspective, I believe it’s completely understandable to lead with the best seller.
Don’t forget, this is a second chance for 1/12 collectors to show up. I can’t speak for Joost, but I imagine if this doesn’t do well, that may very well be the end of the line for the 1/12 scale from jazzinc.
To be clear, that doesn’t have anything to do with HT showing a batwing they’ll never produce - it’s based on the proven appetite of the actual 1/12 market.
I never thought we'd see hot toys re-release the 89 Batmobile, but they did, and i never thought they'd announce the Dark Knight Rises Bat Armory, having first shown it way back in 2012/2013, but they did, so there's still a chance we may see the 1/12 Batwing............
Yep, this is top of the line for Jazzinc. This is why we keep seeing each little upgrade thrown in seemingly every couple of weeks or so, and for good reason. Go all out while you’re making it because in a year it’ll all be said and done, and the vehicle that brings you the most attention will also be made to the best of your ability as well as its ability. The efforts here alone will likely act as a sponsorship of sorts to fund other projects never thought to be green lit. The support for the 1966 helped make this a reality.
I'd pay 500+ for a 1/12 but I see your points about why Jazzinc would be hesitant.
Didn't Joost say he'll consider a Kickstarter for the 1/12 1989 Batmobile? It just needs publicity and probably the more pledges, a lower price can be attained. The question is, can Joost scale to the demand?
Take the recent DeLorean kickstarter campaign.
This fits those 1/10 scale NECA figures. Pricing for those figures are much cheaper than your regular 1/12 Mafex, SHF, figures. The DeLorean is at $399 regularly priced they had a few early bird specials with $299 as the lowest with an added bonus. I can't recall how shipping works with these campaigns. It ended with 2,856 backers but that's not representative of the total units to be produced because some opted for packages with 2 or 5 DeLoreans. They reached 3 times the goal amount in one day. It's possible. Joost can set a lower price than $500 but will need the right amount of backers.
Take the recent DeLorean kickstarter campaign.
This fits those 1/10 scale NECA figures. Pricing for those figures are much cheaper than your regular 1/12 Mafex, SHF, figures. The DeLorean is at $399 regularly priced they had a few early bird specials with $299 as the lowest with an added bonus. I can't recall how shipping works with these campaigns. It ended with 2,856 backers but that's not representative of the total units to be produced because some opted for packages with 2 or 5 DeLoreans. They reached 3 times the goal amount in one day. It's possible. Joost can set a lower price than $500 but will need the right amount of backers.
But then he may be met with the dilemma of are all of these details able to be fully realized in 1/12 to justify the high price it would be. He’s talking about die cast, leather seats, silkscreened dashboard detailing, carpet floors, accurate pedals, et cetera.
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I’ll buy the JazzInc 1/6 ‘89 Batmobile and the 1/12.
I got the Batwing, might as well go all in.
There are 1:6 figures now that cost as much as a 1:6 vehicle. Atleast you can see JazzInc pride themselves in accuracy and detail that make it feel like it’s worth it.
I got the Batwing, might as well go all in.
There are 1:6 figures now that cost as much as a 1:6 vehicle. Atleast you can see JazzInc pride themselves in accuracy and detail that make it feel like it’s worth it.
I'm in on that. I'm slightly concerned about shipping - I've had to use a US forwarding address which I've never done before. Hope there's no problems. Won't find out till late next year if memory serves
Personally I'd understand if a 1/12 version didn't or couldn't have literally all the same features as the 1/6.
Don’t forget that if we’re lucky to get all this extra features on the 89 Batmobile is simply because of the huge success of this limited run.
I mean, this 89 Batmobile is already the major success of Joost and his team and maybe will remain his greatest success.
Whatever your sensibilities, the 89 is still the most beloved Batmobile ever and even Joost was surprised by the success of this project.
And this is why it will be maybe his most detailed and refined product to date.
Just impossible to get all these incredible details on a 1/12 scale.
I mean, this 89 Batmobile is already the major success of Joost and his team and maybe will remain his greatest success.
Whatever your sensibilities, the 89 is still the most beloved Batmobile ever and even Joost was surprised by the success of this project.
And this is why it will be maybe his most detailed and refined product to date.
Just impossible to get all these incredible details on a 1/12 scale.
I'm not sure but I think kickstarter offers logistic solutions. Here's the thing, if everything is going to ship out from Jazzinc directly, Joost should already factor the shipping costs per region and probably that can be charged when the campaign closes. Have a disclaimer of the shipping costs to be added so everybody knows how much it will be when it is time to pay up, normally when the campaign successfully closes. To maybe even lower the cost, I wonder if it's feasible to do it directly through Jazzinc's own website and avoid kickstarter fees.
Accuracy is what will matter here. Majority of the collectors won't really give a damn about carpeting, leather seats, or what not on a smaller scale collectible. Most will be happy that their figures can fit inside with some diecast and working lights to go with it. Throw in that smoke effect as a cherry on top. If Joost wants to implement other features and 1/6 collectors become finicky about them, have them as stretch goals.
Most importantly, get the word out outside of this forum and Facebook. Have those toy news websites cover it. The more people that know, the better. But again, if a lot of backers come in to play, can Joost scale to that demand without encountering qc issues and delays.
I certainly can’t speak for Joost, but he strikes me as the type of person that doesn’t compromise his efforts just to make a sale. I think he has way too much personal integrity for that along with a very high standard for quality.
I’d be very surprised if he ever put out a product that didn’t live up to his own convictions of what should be made.
I think this go round is as simple as either raising at least enough money to make the vehicle he envisions, or not. Kickstarter provides for that “black and white” clarity.
As far as shipping goes, it is never fixed priced. Typically, you get an estimate when the order is placed, based on the estimated dimensions and weight, but the actual shipping isn’t charged until it’s ready to ship.
I hope everyone that really wants his stuff in 1/12 can get their dream vehicles out of this.
Well... I can't fully agree on one aspect but that's besides the point.
Anyway, adding all those doesn't immediately speak high standard of quality. If those end up peeling off, then what's the point? I'm not saying that will happen but the point is, you can still offer a product of high standard without those extras on the get go through a Kickstarter type of sale. Didn't all those extras come in anyway because more people than expected preordered? In a sense, it's just similar to achieving a stretch goal in kickstarter.
Again accuracy and quality matters for both 1/6 and 1/12 crowd. I'd say that where 1/6 collectors chase after hyper realism to the minute detail, 1/12 collectors chase playability. They'll go for the points and range of articulation over that correct type of button/tie/etc. Gotta pivot to that 1/12 crowd, find what features will matter to them and offer that in whatever high standard Joost deems with feasibility in mind.
I agree with what you’re saying about the 1/12 consumer and their wants, but I think I might need to clarify my point.
This isn’t a case where jazzinc wants or needs to pivot to the 1/12 crowd. This is just a last opportunity for that crowd to prove they can support premium 1/12 vehicles by speaking with their wallets. It’s my belief that Joost will continue to make 1/12 vehicles only if that particular community can align with his vision of at least the minimum standards of what he is willing to produce. If the market supports it, he’ll make it. If not, then he won’t.
The expectation that jazzinc is going to produce a line of products more so designed with a focus on playability as a priority, or just “play down” to a particular consumer segment seems to fly in the face of their reputation. It also seems contrary to what Joost has conveyed as their direction (IMO).
In the immortal words of the late, great George Carlin, “you gotta pay to play”
I gather the mention of features peeling off
is a reference to a recent situation where three vehicles had some paint peeling issues. I believe Joost addressed that topic in his last livestream on onesixthmafia. IIRC, he replaced those vehicles and paid for shipping both ways. It doesn’t seem reasonable to conclude from that situation that these vehicles aren’t high quality or production quality isn’t up to snuff. I mean, three out of a few hundred, and they were addressed free if charge. That’s better service and quality than you get from Tesla.
Apologies if I misunderstood.
Pretty much this but no worries.
This isn’t a case where jazzinc wants or needs to pivot to the 1/12 crowd. This is just a last opportunity for that crowd to prove they can support premium 1/12 vehicles by speaking with their wallets. It’s my belief that Joost will continue to make 1/12 vehicles only if that particular community can align with his vision of at least the minimum standards of what he is willing to produce. If the market supports it, he’ll make it. If not, then he won’t.
The expectation that jazzinc is going to produce a line of products more so designed with a focus on playability as a priority, or just “play down” to a particular consumer segment seems to fly in the face of their reputation. It also seems contrary to what Joost has conveyed as their direction (IMO).
In the immortal words of the late, great George Carlin, “you gotta pay to play”
The problems with the 1/12 Justice mobile that I think worked against it was firstly it wasn't widely known. It was a 1/12 piece mostly advertised in the realm of 1/6 collectors. It's asking the 1/6 crowd to prove there's a market for Joost's 1/12 products. Even if knowledge of its existence somehow got in the field of view of actual 1/12 collectors, the movies weren't generally well liked. Also, this version of the Batmobile isn't as iconic.
Again, you missed the point. My analogy of the 1/6 with hyper realism to 1/12 with playability is not "playing down to sacrifice their reputation." It's knowing that it's a different market. It's Jazzinc entering the 1/12 market. You're not gonna come into a cheeseburger crowd selling a steak. I said accuracy and quality matters to both. I never said dumb down the product. Joost already has qualities on the 1/6 1989 that I know will be highly liked by 1/12 collectors - flipflop paint, the proper proportions and accurate details, lights, diecast. What you want is for everything currently on the 1/6 to be there on the 1/12 which might not really matter to the 1/12 crowd (the less important stuff - carpet, leather finish, etc.) Also, some things might not be feasible on a smaller scale that works on 1/6. So instead of trying to translate everything on the 1/6 to the 1/12, offer something instead that speaks to the 1/12 crowd. Turn that high quality steak meat into a high quality cheeseburger.
Yes, the 1/12 crowd won't pay $500 for one piece - one piece that isn't iconic and isn't from a widely loved franchise. 1/12 collectors have the money. A lot of the better produced 1/12 are close to $100 and above and they'll be spending that amount a lot of times in a given year. Some spend for customs as well. It doesn't mean they won't hesitate or balk at a large asking price. Only Joost knows what number needs to be reached with a given price. I think considering the price of the Tomy DeLorean is a good reference to start with.
Off the mark. I wasn't referring to that issue at all. My point was high quality doesn't necessarily mean adding all the bells and whistles to the 1/12 scale that the 1/6 has. Having fabric carpet or leather finish doesn't immediately speak high quality especially if those end up peeling. Again, I'm not saying that's what will happen. It's more of an analogy. You can still have a high quality product without those and if it help cut the cost down, then why not as those features anyway won't really matter to the 1/12 crowd. They're cool, sure. A big selling point, not really. If Joost still wants them there, make it a stretch goal. As I said, those were added in anyway because the preorder amount for the 1/6 exceeded the original target. In a sense it acted like a stretch goal or bonus reward.
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It’s all good. Glad to have a conversation with someone who clearly takes time to post good stuff
Just a couple of thoughts, based on your last post.
Well, almost.
Again, respectfully, I completely get the analogy that you can’t sell steak to a cheeseburger crowd, but I don’t see the menu changing here, so to speak.
With the 1/12 BVS products, he provided exactly what was asked for - and it was steak. He spent time and money designing and delivering all of that at a pre-established price. And then crickets when it came time to actually pay. To be fair, many people did buy it, but many didn’t. And he’s been sitting on that inventory ever since.
None of that is about anything that I want. As long as 1/6 vehicles roll out, I’m good.
Apparently, that cheeseburger crowd won’t even buy a cheeseburger. They want steak at a price even less than a cheeseburger. I would even go so far as to characterize that core market (generally speaking) as very frugal.
There’s a reason HT hasn’t delivered their 1/12 batwing, despite many people clamoring for it
Again, my apologies for my misunderstanding. I guess, given the context of this topic, the repeated example of features becoming defective over time due to low quality came across to me as an unnecessary knock on jazzinc. And I’ll certainly admit that, for whatever reason, I hate to see unwarranted criticism go Joost’s way, so again, my apologies for incorrectly putting that on you.
To be clear, I have no dog in this fight and it really doesn’t affect me as to whether or not the 1/12 line continues. That said, Joost does make a fantastic product and I hope that everyone who wants one can get it.
Just a couple of thoughts, based on your last post.
Respectfully, I don’t think I can agree with that. They sold out of three different 1/6 versions of the BVS/Justice League batmobile, yet he still sits on unsold 1/12 inventory that was made available after the first version was sold out. It’s difficult to believe that’s because the movie wasn’t well liked or nobody in the 1/12 space knew about it. Or, as was additionally suggested, perhaps the 1/12 market did know about the product, but hated the movie (way more than the 1/6 crowd), so they didn’t want it.
Exactly!
Well, almost.
Again, respectfully, I completely get the analogy that you can’t sell steak to a cheeseburger crowd, but I don’t see the menu changing here, so to speak.
With the 1/12 BVS products, he provided exactly what was asked for - and it was steak. He spent time and money designing and delivering all of that at a pre-established price. And then crickets when it came time to actually pay. To be fair, many people did buy it, but many didn’t. And he’s been sitting on that inventory ever since.
None of that is about anything that I want. As long as 1/6 vehicles roll out, I’m good.
Apparently, that cheeseburger crowd won’t even buy a cheeseburger. They want steak at a price even less than a cheeseburger. I would even go so far as to characterize that core market (generally speaking) as very frugal.
There’s a reason HT hasn’t delivered their 1/12 batwing, despite many people clamoring for it
Again, my apologies for my misunderstanding. I guess, given the context of this topic, the repeated example of features becoming defective over time due to low quality came across to me as an unnecessary knock on jazzinc. And I’ll certainly admit that, for whatever reason, I hate to see unwarranted criticism go Joost’s way, so again, my apologies for incorrectly putting that on you.
To be clear, I have no dog in this fight and it really doesn’t affect me as to whether or not the 1/12 line continues. That said, Joost does make a fantastic product and I hope that everyone who wants one can get it.
@BigWayne
All good man.
My collection is a mix but my 1/12 and anything close to its size outnumbers my 1/6 stuff by a lot. I interact with both crowds. One particular forum I go to does toy news coverage from 1/12 to 1/6 to replicas. Nowhere will you find anything Jazzinc related. Even with the DC thread or Mezco thread, you'd hardly find discussion about Jazzinc let alone the 1/12 Justice mobile. I tried searching another toy website that covers toy news and the only Jazzinc related product you'll find is a 1/12 Star Wars diorama. So yeah, Jazzinc is not that widely known nor discussed in the 1/12 world. The only 1/12 BvS batmobile news I've seen is that from Mezco which never materialized I believe. People are clamoring for that 1/12 1989 Batwing from HT but again, you'd probably expect that's mostly the 1/6 crowd. Also, HT has teased prototypes that seem to have a lot of interest but they never did produce. So this is not the 1/12 crowd not showing up when it matters. This is more on the 1/6 crowd not actually really caring for 1/12 stuff.
All good man.
My collection is a mix but my 1/12 and anything close to its size outnumbers my 1/6 stuff by a lot. I interact with both crowds. One particular forum I go to does toy news coverage from 1/12 to 1/6 to replicas. Nowhere will you find anything Jazzinc related. Even with the DC thread or Mezco thread, you'd hardly find discussion about Jazzinc let alone the 1/12 Justice mobile. I tried searching another toy website that covers toy news and the only Jazzinc related product you'll find is a 1/12 Star Wars diorama. So yeah, Jazzinc is not that widely known nor discussed in the 1/12 world. The only 1/12 BvS batmobile news I've seen is that from Mezco which never materialized I believe. People are clamoring for that 1/12 1989 Batwing from HT but again, you'd probably expect that's mostly the 1/6 crowd. Also, HT has teased prototypes that seem to have a lot of interest but they never did produce. So this is not the 1/12 crowd not showing up when it matters. This is more on the 1/6 crowd not actually really caring for 1/12 stuff.
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