Joker: Folie à Deux

[crows]

Who will Todd Phillips **** next?

 

[Nick D]

You could loosely say the message is -
Negativity brings attention, people are more interested in watching a life spiral out of control than attempting to help redirect it.

Our world idolizes and thrives off of despair.
The way the media covers and obsesses over extensive public murder trials, natural disasters, toxic celebrity relationships, scandals. Negativity sells. Think about it, how often do you get mad in your everyday life regarding matters bigger than traffic or your day at work? With the news they introduce something new for you to be upset about daily. Psychologically bringing problems you didn’t have with you into your everyday life.

 

[Sachiel]

Use your brain. They made a sequel to the joker as a slow courtoom drama, with musical numbers, it purposefully didnt give the audience the payoffs it wanted, and made him die a failure. There is nothing not risky about any of that. You can hate. Everyone hates it. But to say it wasnt risky is stupidity.

It's risky if they were hoping for another billion dollar hit.

 

[jye4ever]

Spoiler

Skimmed through it.
Well that was completely pointless.
Disastrously bad. You could have shanked him at the end of the first film if that was where you wanted to take the character. Why the hell is this film two hours and twenty minutes? Way to go Todd, you went from putting out a billion dollar controversial Oscar winning film to throwing your name on a blacklist of directors, among the likes of David Gordon Green, pitiful.

 

[jye4ever]

Ughhhhhhh…

Good morning blah blah ****

This movie hit me like an IPA called Juicey Locomotive!

The 1st one remains a masterpiece for me.

Joker 2.

I had to see it with my own eyes…I went in spoiler free but knew of the backlash obviously from hanging out in here.

I was hoping that I would interpret it differently than what was being described as a disastrous deconstruction of the character.

I didn’t interpret anything differently.

What a piece of ****!

Phillips, WTF dude like seriously.

That ending hnnnng.

It had potential to crescendo into super ruthless Joker but NOPE!!!

My boy Phoenix was my favorite Joker in style and swagger.

Now he’s in one of the worst sequels ever.

Quick someone call FEMA to help Todd Phillips career…oh wait sorry Todd they’re broke you’re SOL!

 

[Captain Clown]

Who will Todd Phillips **** next?

Spoiler

 

[jye4ever]

Phillips was literally trolling the audience with the line “Lets give the people what they want”

Jesus

 

[jye4ever]

You can actually take large chunks of this movie and re-edit a new extended cut of Joker 1 by integrating these Joker 2 real Arthur/Joker fantasy scenes into Joker 1 building him up to a real bad *** Joker.

It could actually work.

 

[jye4ever]

God is my soul broken.

I need more coffee brb.

 

[Nick D]

I genuinely don’t see how a single Joker fan or Batman fan for the matter, could finish this film without the feeling of wiping spit from their face.

It’s 100% a deconstruction of the character.

Just the same as Michael wearing a burnt mask covered in mold, being suplexed by a kid in high school. Or a 60 year old lady dropping a fridge on him while he squirms around like he did in H20 ( that was him when they were making it).

Or even having him parade around in broad daylight not even wearing the mask, showing half your face through it with a beard when it is on, screaming die as you die, making Laurie and Loomis, the two people out of this entire shitfest you’re meant to care about, insufferable a$$holes. The amount of screaming in that film, I’ll never view it again.

Joker 2, Halloween Ends and RZ H2 are absolutely not “artistic direction from offbeat stylistic conscious decision making”.

I don’t understand why fans appear blind to this, all three of these films were made out of spite for the fans, for the material,
for the character they themselves fabricated.

Deliberately withheld any Joker or Michael Myers scenes evocative of their character knowing you’re about to kill them off.

Rob Zombie -
Thought all the films before his were boring and garbage ( to his credit I agree with everything after 1981 HII), didn’t like how much influence the studio had over his first outting, nor the public’s or Carpenter’s response to it, reluctantly made the second film on his terms, not in good faith, but as a departing middle finger to the studios, fans, and franchise.

Green & Curtis -
Curtis has wanted him dead since HII.
Coming back for H20 because she was promised she could finish the job.
She signed on with Green under the stipulation that they’d kill him off.
He’s dead at the end of 2018 in the house fire, they just decided to milk the gullible fans who can’t say no, out of another two films because of it becoming the #1 grossing slasher of all time, at the time. Then Halloween Kills came around and people didn’t like it, so he changed the end of the trilogy completely out of spite sending Michael off in such a whimper that is too close for comfort in how Phillips dispatches Joker here.

 

[crows]

I genuinely don’t see how a single Joker fan or Batman fan for the matter, could finish this film without the feeling of wiping spit from their face.

It’s 100% a deconstruction of the character.

Just the same as Michael wearing a burnt mask covered in mold, being suplexed by a kid in high school. Or a 60 year old lady dropping a fridge on him while he squirms around like he did in H20 ( that was him when they were making it).

Or even having him parade around in broad daylight not even wearing the mask, showing half your face through it with a beard when it is on, screaming die as you die, making Laurie and Loomis, the two people out of this entire shitfest you’re meant to care about, insufferable a$$holes. The amount of screaming in that film, I’ll never view it again.

Joker 2, Halloween Ends and RZ H2 are absolutely not “artistic direction from offbeat stylistic conscious decision making”.

I don’t understand why fans appear blind to this, all three of these films were made out of spite for the fans, for the material, for the character they themselves fabricated.
Deliberately withheld any Joker or Michael Myers scenes evocative of their character knowing you’re about to kill them off.

Rob Zombie -
Thought all the films before his were boring and garbage ( to his credit I agree with everything after 1981 HII), didn’t like how much influence the studio had over his first outting, nor the public’s or Carpenter’s response to it, reluctantly made the second film on his terms, not in good faith, but as a departing middle finger to the studios, fans, and franchise.

Green & Curtis -
Curtis has wanted him dead since HII.
Coming back for H20 because she was promised she could finish the job.
She signed on with Green under the stipulation that they’d kill him off.
He’s dead at the end of 2018 in the house fire, they just decided to milk the gullible fans who can’t say no, out of another two films because of it becoming the #1 grossing slasher of all time, at the time. Then Halloween Kills came around and people didn’t like it, so he changed the end of the trilogy completely out of spite sending Michael off in such a whimper that is too close for comfort in how Phillips dispatches Joker here.

don't forget matrix 4, the worst one
movies made out of spite.

the last Jedi
we are in an era of deconstructing characters,
subverted expectations ........

 

[crows]

God is my soul broken.

I need more coffee brb.

don't you wish you knew the spoilers beforehand ...

 

[Nick D]

don't forget matrix 4, the worst one
movies made out of spite.

the last Jedi
we are in an era of deconstructing characters,
subverted expectations ........

I’ve never seen any past Reloaded,
which is why I haven’t been able to draw
the comparison. Do you remember the old Matrix video game?

I also haven’t seen any Terminator past 3, Alien film past 2 if we’re not counting the AVP films, same for Predator. Didn’t see Flash. If I know a film is bad, I won’t watch it.

For Joker 2 I didn’t sit down and thoroughly watch it,
I skimmed through to anything visually interesting, any important dialogue (surprise, not much), skipped the singing obviously. The court scenes read like an SNL skit, just headache inducing, truly.

 

[crows]

I’ve never seen any past Reloaded,
which is why I haven’t been able to draw
the comparison. Do you remember the old Matrix video game?

I also haven’t seen any Terminator past 3, Alien film past 2 if we’re not counting the AVP films, same for Predator. Didn’t see Flash. If I know a film is bad, I won’t watch it.

For Joker 2 I didn’t sit down and thoroughly watch it,
I skimmed through to anything visually interesting, any important dialogue (surprise, not much), skipped the singing obviously. The court scenes read like an SNL skit, just headache inducing, truly.

did you see the last Jedi?

 

[batmanfan23]

They care about financial returns until a film
gathers a cult-like following of people they despise.

They made their billion off of a film which they hate that you like, while actively trying to tear it down before it even reached theaters.

I’m not talking about critic reviews, those hold no weight. I’m talking about the news media channels and stations who went on and on about the destruction and mayhem this would bring, about the theater mass shootings that were inevitably to take place.

Hollywood and juggernaut corporations own all of the news outlets, they control the narrative, so it’s no coincidence that they all said the same thing about the film and what it’d do.

If Todd set out to make a great film,
cared about the character he created,
then why isn’t there a single moment where the character is on top of the world like he was in the final act of the first film?
What’s the resolve here? There was no story left to tell, this film only exists to axe off the character because he didn’t do so in the first film. Why’s Halloween Ends exist? Because they didn’t kill him off in 2018 and milked gullible audiences another two films before dispatching him in the most intentionally disrespectful spit in your face manner.

He drags the character through hell in this film as the films punchline with zero pay off for not only Joker, but anyone else in the story. It can only be described as intentionally flying into the Atlantic with all of its fan base on board.

Everything about this rant is so factually wrong I dont even know where to begin. You live in a fantasy land.

"They care about financial returns until a film gathers a cult-like following of people they despise."
- Wrong. They care about financial returns at all times.

"They made their billion off of a film which they hate that you like, while actively trying to tear it down before it even reached theaters."
- Wrong. They love that you love it. They care about money. The more you love it the more money they make. The studio isn't the one tearing down the character.

"I’m not talking about critic reviews, those hold no weight. I’m talking about the news media channels and stations who went on and on about the destruction and mayhem this would bring, about the theater mass shootings that were inevitably to take place."
-Wrong. The majority of "top critics" reviews were from "news" organizations. Every major newspaper, magazine, news website, has an entertainment portion of the organization that handles entertainment related news. The same people writing the reviews also wrote a lot of the articles talking about the "danger". And if it wasnt the same person at that organization it was under the same umbrella. Any other article that was written outside of that scenario- their world does not revolve around "joker". They write hundreds of articles a week. You are over inflating how much anyone actually gives a **** about movies. And every time an article was written about joker, or a tweet was posted, or anyone was talking about that movie- the studio LOVED it. The controversy lead to billions of dollars. That is all they cared about.

"Hollywood and juggernaut corporations own all of the news outlets, they control the narrative, so it’s no coincidence that they all said the same thing about the film and what it’d do."
- The movie studios care about financial return. Beginning and end of story. Fact not opinion. The studio LOVED the blowback and controversy the first movie got- it drove more poeple to theater to see what all the hoopla was about. They leaned into it.

"If Todd set out to make a great film, cared about the character he created,
then why isn’t there a single moment where the character is on top of the world like he was in the final act of the first film? What’s the resolve here? There was no story left to tell, this film only exists to axe off the character because he didn’t do so in the first film. Why’s Halloween Ends exist? Because they didn’t kill him off in 2018 and milked gullible audiences another two films before dispatching him in the most intentionally disrespectful spit in your face manner."
-You can set out to make a great film, and not like the main character. The movie exists because the studio wanted a sequel to make money. Todd Phillips didnt really want to make a sequel but they threw enough money at him to do it. He said he wasn't going to make a sequel unless he felt he could come up with an idea to excite himself. That's a big part of why the movie is a musical. The studio didnt set out to make a musical- to him creatively that challenge excited him due to it being offbeat and challenging to make. The studios finance the Halloween sequels for the same reason- to make money, not to go out of there way to disrespect a character. The director may choose to do that, but its not a studio thing. You clearly just dont understand how movies are made or how the industry works.

"He drags the character through hell in this film as the films punchline with zero pay off for not only Joker, but anyone else in the story. It can only be described as intentionally flying into the Atlantic with all of its fan base on board."
-Again. This is the director, not the studio.

 

[crows]

Everything about this rant is so factually wrong I dont even know where to begin. You live in a fantasy land.

"They care about financial returns until a film gathers a cult-like following of people they despise."
- Wrong. They care about financial returns at all times.

"They made their billion off of a film which they hate that you like, while actively trying to tear it down before it even reached theaters."
- Wrong. They love that you love it. They care about money. The more you love it the more money they make. The studio isn't the one tearing down the character.

"I’m not talking about critic reviews, those hold no weight. I’m talking about the news media channels and stations who went on and on about the destruction and mayhem this would bring, about the theater mass shootings that were inevitably to take place."
-Wrong. The majority of "top critics" reviews were from "news" organizations. Every major newspaper, magazine, news website, has an entertainment portion of the organization that handles entertainment related news. The same people writing the reviews also wrote a lot of the articles talking about the "danger". And if it wasnt the same person at that organization it was under the same umbrella. Any other article that was written outside of that scenario- their world does not revolve around "joker". They write hundreds of articles a week. You are over inflating how much anyone actually gives a **** about movies. And every time an article was written about joker, or a tweet was posted, or anyone was talking about that movie- the studio LOVED it. The controversy lead to billions of dollars. That is all they cared about.

"Hollywood and juggernaut corporations own all of the news outlets, they control the narrative, so it’s no coincidence that they all said the same thing about the film and what it’d do."
- The movie studios care about financial return. Beginning and end of story. Fact not opinion. The studio LOVED the blowback and controversy the first movie got- it drove more poeple to theater to see what all the hoopla was about. They leaned into it.

"If Todd set out to make a great film, cared about the character he created,
then why isn’t there a single moment where the character is on top of the world like he was in the final act of the first film? What’s the resolve here? There was no story left to tell, this film only exists to axe off the character because he didn’t do so in the first film. Why’s Halloween Ends exist? Because they didn’t kill him off in 2018 and milked gullible audiences another two films before dispatching him in the most intentionally disrespectful spit in your face manner."
-You can set out to make a great film, and not like the main character. The movie exists because the studio wanted a sequel to make money. Todd Phillips didnt really want to make a sequel but they threw enough money at him to do it. He said he wasn't going to make a sequel unless he felt he could come up with an idea to excite himself. That's a big part of why the movie is a musical. The studio didnt set out to make a musical- to him creatively that challenge excited him due to it being offbeat and challenging to make. The studios finance the Halloween sequels for the same reason- to make money, not to go out of there way to disrespect a character. The director may choose to do that, but its not a studio thing. You clearly just dont understand how movies are made or how the industry works.

"He drags the character through hell in this film as the films punchline with zero pay off for not only Joker, but anyone else in the story. It can only be described as intentionally flying into the Atlantic with all of its fan base on board."
-Again. This is the director, not the studio.

if they cared about money, current star wars wouldn't exist.
current marvel wouldn't be where it is

those two prove Nick D. right. matrix 4 proves Nick D. right


star wars had problems even before COVID happened and they won't fix them. keep losing fans, keep losing money, keep pushing their weird ideas.

no they don't only care about profits. why does matrix 4 exist then?

 

[nm.ct]

---

---

full context

Spoiler

in jail Arthur is bullied by the cops.
but they play around with him. they give him cigarettes for jokes. they troll him.
they slap him. kinda playful but abusive.

later in court and dealing with Gaga joker starts to get annoyed about the joker culture.
Arthur starts to get annoyed with the court case. and he insults the cops on tv.

the cops see this on TV and feel insulted and betrayed.
and when he returns they beat him up, take all his clothes off, throw him on the floor.
and one cop takes off his cop belt. as the rest of the cops are watching.

then the next day comes. **** it's pretty heavily implied because the next day he's crying and quits being joker. he's crying.
next day he goes to court and says there's no joker. he confesses to killing his mom in court and says he's only Arthur.

then at the very very end

Spoiler

since he said he's not joker, a prisoner in jail says "you are a fake. you are false "
and stabs him to death in the belly

so he got ***** by cops. and murdered by his own fan. murdered by his fan.

Well this isn't the full context.

 

[Otomofan]

It's not about money.

"The message" has clearly been more important than profits for some time now.

I can't even fathom why, but some factions very high up in the food chain have been prioritizing it above everything else for the last decade or so.

 

[Nick D]

So why would WB host a viewing of this film,
knowing the previous one made one billion worldwide, watching this privately amongst peers in an advanced viewing, allow this to be released, something they sank two hundred million into.

They were never going to allow this version of the character to branch out, develop wings, have a Batman or a universe.

Yeah Todd says those weren’t his intentions, though, let’s be honest, do we think they’d let him? A guy shooting someone in the head on live tv and suffocating his looney toons mother was never going to be the face of DC when Marvel exists.
Phoenix made Leto look normal.

Of course they like money, that’s not even a point to bring up, we’re talking about Hollywood here.

They knew this film was dead in the water, why do you think we’re getting figures in every scale, every company, quality high and low.

This is how they attempt to compensate, though they know no one will buy into product after they’ve purposely tainted the characters image permanently.

If you don’t see how some people saw his character as a cult icon from the first films end, to how pathetic he’s rendered in this until he’s physically dead then I don’t know what to tell you. That’s every bit strategical from everyone involved, they made it, they financed it, they ok’d it.

No toys when people are raving about it
and actually like it, have the character get bullied, ***** and murdered, then release the toys to anyone that would buy it with that image ingrained on the character.

Just to turn around and point their fingers at the “sick” fans that still are willing to buy product of the character despite all of this, further lining their pockets after they royally disrespected you.

 

[jye4ever]