Sideshow 1/6 bodies - how would you change them?

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dstephan

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I've read on this and some other boards how some people are dissatisfied with Sideshow's 1/6 bodies. With the Star Wars license I'd imagine that SSC might have room in the budget to do some R&D on modifying the body, so let's hear what bothers you about them.

How would you change the standard 1/6 body, either male or female?

Feel free to post this on other 1/6 forums, let's get as much input as we can.




**This is not an official poll, but as we know they do read the forum**
 
:lol I've been thinking about this subject for the past week or so, just never got around to posting.
Mainly, my problem with sideshow figures is with the females.

Female problem areas:

1) They are in severe lack of an hour glass shape.
The main problem is in the thighs, they are too thin and stick figure like to contribute to this shape.
They also need a larger upper torso. there's nothing wrong with the bust, just the thickness of the rib cage area.

2) They need thicker thighs.
this is a part of the whole hour glass shape thing. but they need to be a little thicker in most directions.

3) Thin spindly arms (they look like sticks)
The upper portion of the arm needs to be slightly thicker with a bit more shape to them. The lower arm could also use some help in the same way, they're too straight as it is now.

4) They need a But!
the lower back portion of the body is too flat, it just needs a little more junk in the trunk to look more realistic.

5) No more Boot Feet!
The main problem here is that boot feet often cause the ankles to be weaker then they would be with shoes. the softer material would also help them stand better and prevent them from sliding on surfaces. they also really don't help in customizing the female Sideshow body.

6) They need to be an average female height in 1:6 scale.
often times, Sideshow bodies are too tall to look like the average height.

7) Joints need to be tighter.
they don't need to be immovable, they just need to be stiff enough to hold the figure's own wight.

8.) They need to be a little lighter.
Sideshow male and female bodies as they are, are too heavy. and when a figure has a sold plastic head, this makes them very heavy. I wouldn't want the head to be lighter because that means they would lose detail, so the body must be a bit lighter.

9.) The Ball jointed head needs more movement.
This is a problem that occurs on quite a few of them, looking up and down is essential to conveying character. But I wouldn't want a joint at the base of the neck, that would look ugly, just a better designed ball joint at the top of the head would suffice.

10) the legs need to join in the middle!
I've noticed on newer Sideshow females that the legs leave a huge gap in the middle and don't meet at the knees. This is also part of the thigh problem.

11) More shape to the upper back.
I've noticed that my Sideshow females lack any real definition in the back area. This does not mean they need to look like body builders, just that they need some shoulder blades.

12) Better jointed ankles.
This joint has the most stress and weakens the quickest. It needs to be designed better. I like the movement you get on Blue Box Generation 3.5 ankles, maybe looking at them would help better this joint.

13) tighter Joints in the upper thigh twist joint.
I've noticed this joint on both male and Sideshow figures has a tendency to be very lose. Maybe by using a rubber gasket or a softer plastic would help prevent this joint from loosening up?

The following are just more like areas that would benefit from some advancements. not that they are absolutely necessary to make the female figure perfect, but that they could possibly perfect the Sideshow body if done right.
-----Fewer joints.
Joints are an eye sore, but they are inevitable. the main problem is the extra joint at the waist. it's maybe a little unnecessary. They still need to bend forward, backward, side to side, and twist, just that the articulation line and gaps don't need to be visible. I like the way the joint at the upper torso on Female figures looks, just not the lower joint at the waist.

----Better designed hip articulation.
This is the biggest problem with female figures in general, not just Sideshow's females but the Takara (CY-Girls), Dragon, BBI (perfect body), Hot Toys, etc.. female figures. They need full articulation, but don't need any type of gap or joint line. I'm not suggesting that a soft cast type skin needs to be used to cover the gap, that stuff can breakdown over time. Just some type of innovation needs to be used. I like the perfect body type hips, but they have a ugly gap in between the legs. maybe using a similar type joint, but with something covering the gap in between the legs would work? I'm sure the people at Sideshow could perfect it. If not, just use the standard hip joint but perhaps with less of a gap showing where the leg meets the hip.

----Less opaque color.
I've noticed that the slight transparency of the plastic on CY-Girls figures causes the joints to be less visible by allowing light to inter the joint area and defuse the shadow there. They don't need to be completely transparent, they need some color.

I'll chime in latter about my thoughts on the Sideshow male body. :wave
 
I've been thinking about this subject for the past week or so, just never got around to posting.

lol, and I've been muttering darkly about this since day one! Other than the unhelpful 'copy Takara'/make 12" Micromen bodies suggestions which first come to mind some...

Neck Joint (male and female) Definitely needs more articulation; as Screamingmetal said, just the downward tilt of a head can add so much character to a displayed figure. Compare Sideshow's Hellboy to Mezco's small or large versions. It's a problem amplified when you have a SSChead sculpted looking eversoslightly upwards too!

Forearm Joint (male and female) Pointless and ugly; the articulation it adds is already replicated at the wrist.

Hip Joint (male) Especially on the male there's too much of a gap between the top of the thigh and the pelvis which often causes trousers to hang oddly and look all wrong at the hip.

Hip Joint (female) The above is less of a problem, but the upper legs really need to be able to come closer together for slinkier posing opportunities.

Lower Leg Joint (male and female) Again, like the forearm joint it's a little redundant but as it's usually covered it's not so bitchable about... except this tends to be one of the looser joints on a SSC body.

Wrists (male and female) I know I'm in controversial waters here, but while this joint gives a great range of movement, it's ugly; too many straight edges. Perhaps if hands could be molded with more of a bevel like the feet? But I'm also worried about the strength of the peg the hand pops onto; several SSC figures have interchangeable hands - frequent changing is going to snap it (we don't all have 5 minutes and a hairdryer on hand). I'm sure something could be done in the vein of the the easy pop-in, pop-out hand/wrist assembly of BBI/Dragon/Takara.

Tightness (male and female) On safer ground here I feel ;) Things seem better than they used to be but loose ankle joints still plague the ladies. And as Screamingmetal said, once you get a heavy head onto the body too you've got to have tight joints from the waist downwards.

Proportions (female) I think what's bugged me about the male figure has been that gap between the pelvis and hip joint... the way the legs float beneath the body just looks weird. But the female figure seems wrong somewhere; too long in the torso?

Other notes; Get the skin tones to match up between hands/heads and body beneath! Ankles - the ball-jointed ankles of BBI's 3.0 bodies and Cy/Cool girls do seem to give the best poseability; I've had far less problems with looseness on such joints than I have on Sideshow's constructs... and I have far, far, far many more Cys ;) Admittedly there was the problem of breakage of the ankle cup, but Takara seem to have nailed that now. Likewise the new hip joint on the Cool Girl 2.0 body, while not that high on aesthetics (but it's covered most of the time) gives some superb shape to posing opportunities.

Firmly in the anti-covering of joints with fake-skin/bendy arms lobby; more than not it hampers articulation, stains too easily, you're screwed if it tears and dust tends to stick to it.

Nick
 
Well, there ya go.
I think they pretty well hit the weak points on target.
I especially agree with the female body looking too anorexic and lacking some feminine detail. The boot feet do have to go. The hands/wrists could definitely benefit from a BBi G3 type look/function. That would work for both male and female bodies.
 
Re: Remember when.......

Just one note about the thinness of the females - I know everyone loves CGs, but I think SSC's females are built more like the actresses they are meant to represent. The first Buffy, and thus their model for the first few females was definitely way too skinny as requested by SMG. But I think the new females are a pretty good compromise.
 
Re: Remember when.......

Nick and Metal hit on all the points and then some.Sideshow should hurry up and make Maleva the old gypsy woman because right now she is the only female figure besides Zira where sexy female anatomy doesn't matter.
 
Re: Remember when.......

Ditto, SM and Nick and, what Poelzig said.

mlv.jpg
 
Re: Remember when.......

I never thought I'd say this,but after seeing Franken's mock advertisment I'm positively salivating over Maria Ouspenskaya !:lol
 
Re: Remember when.......

Just look at that face! A sculptor's dream!

And, Mdm. Ouspenskaya was born 129 years ago, today. She and I share the same birthday, albeit 73 years apart. In 1941, when she debuted the role of Maleva in "The Wolf Man," she was only 9 years older than I am, today.

Yikes!!!

I now return you to your regularly scheduled topic...
 
Re: Remember when.......

:birthday Frankenfan.

I do hope a Maria sees the light as the gypsy woman. Please can the regular come with the crystal ball.

As for 1/6th bodies. I just hate loose joints mostly. There is no way this should happen in this day and age. After that, I'd have to say exposed joints. Many figures have been chosen because their outfit covers joints. Now it will always be a problem, but I'd prefer less articulation from a figure with exposed joints. Use older arm and leg designs, from the days when there never was a bicep cut, at least, or a thin skin coloured rubber sleeve possibly.

It's great to have the different scaled bodies. Next should be interchangeable body styles. Not just add height to a figure by using longer legs. One with fat guts, rather than a body suit. I would have loved the Quasimodo, if he had an actual hump. I still love his bulbous head and body, sure, but I would have liked to re-enact the wheel. Muscular arms, for Hellboy, could restrict articulation, but in a static pose would look asthetically more pleasing, and add variation possibilities, shirt off kinda thing. More and more we are being pressed to have figures semi-naked. So this needs to be addressed. Sales for exposed jointed figures would increase if they looked the part, more than if they can fold into a yoga position.
 
Re: bodies.

Variety in height and weight. Maybe six bodies- 3M, 3F.

For Star Wars: Rank packs. Ranks of immobile Stormtroopers to line up for the main characters. -Stormtroopers, Bikerscouts, pilots, officers etc. No articulation but lots of inexpensive troops. (I'm thinking Deathstar landing bay scene here.)

Rank packs can be used in every theme from Apes to LotR.

For the Lone Gunmen; Langley needs rooted hair. They all need to have blue-face exclusives. Frohike needs to be in M.I. computer room heist gear and and a new shorter body. All three need to have different issues of the paper included. Yves should have rooted hair and her injection gun and twin mac-11 accessories and a Tango outfit exclusive. Morris Fletcher should have a Fla vacation outfit for his exclusive with a print of the Jupiter II. All of this was contained in the "Jump the Shark" X-files episode.

Superarticulated bodies ala Takara Coolgirl/Volks NeoEB for appropriate characters ie Beckinsdale from Underworld, Moss from Matrix etc.

Skin for appropriate characters. Articulated joints look pretty stupid in bikinis or other revealing outfits. Masao knows how this could be done, Matt should really contact him. ;)

Modularization in all body parts design so that the 6 types can be made into many different types which should fit most characters.



bodyshoplabs---at---netscape.net
 
Re: bodies.

No offense, but if they make Lone Gunmen after killing off the Apes line.....somebody's getting their door knocked on....heavily!!!
 
Re: bodies.

Oooooooo... rubber skin... red rag to bull ;) ... :poke

Gotta say I doubt whether this fabled panacea is actually achieveable, at least without a lot of R&D (and, no offence to their reps here, but I think the recent rooted hair experiment showed R&D isn't perhaps a SSC strong point?). And how much would that add to the price too?

The immediate problems that come to mind are...
(1) limits poseability
(2) degradation over time (rotting)
(3) degradation over time (discolouration)
(4) staining from clothing
(5) tearing - not the easiest to repair
(6) talking of repair, if the joint/armature beneath snaps then you're stuffed.
(7) ease of cleaning; dust loves to stick to rubber skins
(8) ease of dressing/undressing; clothing doesn't run over rubber skin as easily as hard plastic - a pain for both the consumer and factory workers putting these things together
(9) still possible to get ugly joints unless you're surrendering all articulation; e.g. the wrist/hand... where the difference between plastics has the potential to show up even more in such places.
(10) Manufacturing costs; SSC's bodies at the moment are nice and easy for the factory to add newly sculpted forearms etc. to. Of course, they could keep the old design for such figures... but then that's spending a fair bit for R&D into skin design on something that's only going to be used on a very small proportion of figures (at the moment I can only think of Slave Leia who'd need to use such a body in the entire SW line?)

Damn, I'm an ol' misery guts this morning! Sorry Masaoken!

And don't get me started on less joints ;) Well, ok then! Less certainly in the removing of that pointless forearm joint; it's an ugly scar on anything that doesn't have a long sleeve. That's why I don't like the SSC wrist; yep, nice articulation but the shapes it describes can ruin the smooth flow of the arm. But start loosing more joints and we end up back with Hasbro's junk.These are toys, dolls, action figures - they're there to be posed and reposed (and dare I even say played with?).

Finally (I can hear cheers all round!) - a footnote on the differently sized bodies; for heightwise the Japanese dollmakers Volks and Obitsu (in their male bodies at least) have a nice little system; their blank bodies are supplied with extenders, allowing you to add a bit of extra height to the legs and length to the arms. Personally, my fantasy (besides those involving Michelle Pfeiffer and strawberry yoghurt :naughty ) would be somekind of modular body where you could clip in different bust sizes, fat stomaches, thin/muscular arms/legs etc. combined with the articulation offered by a Takara microman.

Nick
 
Re: bodies.

It doesn't have to be that scientific, Nick. If I knew where to get the appropriate size latex, condom tubing, in the right colour, in good lengths, I could roll it on and off, as desired, at my own descretion.

Brainstorming doesn't have to be radically imposed. R & D should be such that a product doesn't get released till the optimum results are achieved. That worked with The Creature of the Black Lagoon, and the Metulant Mutant looks to be a hoot. Looking forward to that one.

I could have said the best thing for 1/6 bodies would be a warehouse in Australasia, so they wouldn't cost me so much, not going to happen anytime soon, so not to worry. As far as fantasy goes, you have me thinking.....
 
Re: Re: bodies.

Finally (I can hear cheers all round!) - a footnote on the differently sized bodies; for heightwise the Japanese dollmakers Volks and Obitsu (in their male bodies at least) have a nice little system; their blank bodies are supplied with extenders, allowing you to add a bit of extra height to the legs and length to the arms. Personally, my fantasy (besides those involving Michelle Pfeiffer and strawberry yoghurt ) would be somekind of modular body where you could clip in different bust sizes, fat stomaches, thin/muscular arms/legs etc. combined with the articulation offered by a Takara microman.

But wouldn't that mean more visible joints where the extenders would attach to? Like a line on the forearm which you're so opposed to for articulation? The answer would be different sized whole arm and leg pieces that would appropriately extend the length of the appendage with out an ugly new joint in the middle, used on specific tall characters.
And the Takara Microman type body would be a bit ugly in 1:6 scale from my point of view.

For the muscular type body I would prefer designed (really only for males) as one whole unit. Designed with a torso bend similar to the Marvel Legends type muscular mid torso joint that is now being used on DC Direct's new 1:6 figures (Batman, Superman, Green Lantern). It would also have to have double jointed arms at the elbow regardless how large the muscles are on the arms.

I've been thinking, maybe Dragon's old double jointed elbows are an old design that can be improved upon, and maybe they can be designed with a bicep muscle that can compress into the arm when the arm moves into a bend, either attached in a lever to the lower arm and pushed up into a pocket in the upper portion of the bicep (this would require the bicep muscle to be split into two parts in the middle hopefully with the joint well hidden and no gap showing) or, maybe have the bicep compress into the arm (towards the back of the arm) in a pocket, the bicep would need a spring to push it back up into position when the arm is straitened out. That would leave only one joint in the elbow, one joint can be more easily blended into the sculpt, and give you the same amount of movement the double elbow joint gives with out the ugliness of it.
The knees don't look so bad with the double joint. Sometimes, when bending the double jointed knees and elbows, you get more movement out of one that would cause the knee or elbow to look cockeyed (for instance, bending more below the knee cap then above the knee cap).
This could be improved upon by controlling the movement of the joints by a gear, so the upper joint in the knee turns more then the lower joint. It would be more costly to manufacture and might cause problems if the gear skipped, so it might have more draw backs then any positive improvements. Blue Box solved this problem on their Perfect Bodies by making one joint weaker then the other, that allowed one joint to move more before the other joint started to move in order not to break the symmetry of the knee in a bend.

Just one note about the thinness of the females - I know everyone loves CGs, but I think SSC's females are built more like the actresses they are meant to represent. The first Buffy, and thus their model for the first few females was definitely way too skinny as requested by SMG. But I think the new females are a pretty good compromise.

A Vacuum has been left by Takara and Blue Box parting ways. Cy Girls are now very hard to find and going for ridiculous sums on Ebay. This is the perfect opportunity to make a new affordable (under $20) 1:6 fully articulated and attractive (attractive means looking like the first Cy-Girl body, not like any of the current Sideshow bodies) Female Art S Buck body.
The new Sideshow females look like stick figures and are not readily sot after by the female collecting/Kit Bashing community. If Sideshow would like to sell more female bodies to the Desperate Female collecting/Kit Bashing community, then they better make more Cy-Girl looking Females. (they really are desperate for an affordable 1:6 fully articulated and attractive female body)
also, I've noticed that manny of these Collectors/Kit Bashers prefer the old Cy Girl body over the new Perfect Girl body design because it has less joints and a more fluid simplistic look.
 
Re: Re: bodies.

I'd agree that the CyGirl 2.0 is a great female figure. But can you name any female character that SSC has done that has a build like that? If they were doing Anna Nicole Smith or Jennifer Tilly, sure. But Famke Jannsen, SMG, Halle Berry - just don't look like that.
 
Re: Re: bodies.

I'd agree that the CyGirl 2.0 is a great female figure. But can you name any female character that SSC has done that has a build like that? If they were doing Anna Nicole Smith or Jennifer Tilly, sure. But Famke Jannsen, SMG, Halle Berry - just don't look like that.

Yeah all of them, I don't see Cy-Girl bodies as being voluptuous as Anna Nicole Smith or Jennifer Tilly, I see them as having the right sized hips and proportions. It's true that actresses like Michelle Trachtenberg (a possibility someday) and Kate Beckinsale have very narrow hips and narrow proportions, and it would be true for the younger versions of Buffy, but most of the women Sideshow has made would work on the Cy-Girl sized body. I have one here and comparing it to all these Buffy figures I have it doesn't look voluptuous compared to the male figures. And I wouldn't be disappointed if the Sideshow female figures came on Cy-Girl styled bodies. Now if Sideshow is going to make a Amber Benson Tara or a Carrie Fisher Princess Leia from A new Hope or The Empire Strikes back, they are going to need a more proportionate Cy-Girl body
 
Re: Re: bodies.

Amber may not be a stick like Alyson or SMG, but she's not proportioned like a Cy either. Carrie Fisher on the other hand - perhaps.

But I'd disagree whole-heartedly that the Buffy girls would look accurate on CG bodies.
 
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