So I just watched Sicko....

[praxitas]

Before I get started I first want to say i'm not a michael moore fan and didn't even watch the 9-11 movie. But, I had 10 hrs to kill at work so I started watching it. Of course, everything is pretty much one sided and questions that people would normally have were not answered. I know our healthcare is horrid to say the least but my question is to some of our international members.

He went to England, France and to the land of Shai. They all said how their healthcare was free and paid for by the govt. What I'm curious about is from your salaries what % goes towards taxes? Awhile ago (don't know if its true or not) I thought I heard canadians pay approx 50% of their salary towards taxes? Also, how do you think healthcare is in your countries where it is free? Any downsides or issues that you have with it personally. I'm talking long wait times, crappy service so on and so forth. He painted a pretty picture of what its like I just wanted to check to see if that was factual.

For me personally and I'm sure most everyone else, my health and more importantly my families health is way more important than my income and luxury items I may own. I would gladly give up an extra portion of my salary if I'm guaranteed to never have to worry about medical issues. I just found it amazing how other countries are and am curious what or if there are many downsides..

 

[Rogue Trooper]

Im in England and i pay around 42% tax and national insurance total. The national insurance which is my health care is a quarter of the 42% tax.
Im biased about our National Healthcare Service NHS as its saved member of my brothers life and i think for the level of service is good value espeacially if you have children. (i don't)
Sometime it take me 2 months to get a apointment with my dentist which im not very happy about.
Ive heard on the news some bad thing go wrong like the take out the wrong kidney but i have never know any one to have any bad experiance myself.
My 10 year old sister has just got her braces in done on the NHS as did i and my 2 other brothers.
My boss has got cancer and has had 3 years cancer treatment on the it aswell.

 

[Darklord Dave]

In the film he shows how well a French couple lives, and the reason for this segment is because of the high percentage of taxes, yet he never states what that percentage is. In France I believe the highest tax bracket is 70% (including national health).

Even with US doctors mistakes happen, cutting off the wrong leg, etc. I'd imagine quality of care if comparable.

 

[Anzik]

The biggest problem with healthcare in the US is the tax code. The health care providers basically have a blank check for the insurance companies, no competition so no need to worry about pricing. A good example of this is on the bill where it says the cost is like $1,081 but they agree to $198 through the insurance company.
The reason employers pay your benefits is because of the huge tax incentives they get to do so. Individuals do not get the same tax credit when buying their own individual insurance, but if they did and you were able to 'shop' for your treatment the free market would regulate the pricing and get it more realistic.
For one example, Canada currently is 'importing' a huge number of physicians, because many of her native doctors head south to the US to make more money.
Another factor in the perceived savings is the cost of pharmaceuticals in Canada is that drugs are cheaper in Canada because of pricing restrictions. In the US, the drug companies have 7 years to charge higher prices to recoup their development expenses before generics can be produced. This increased pricing is illegal in Canada so the manufacturers sell them for less in there, further increasing the US costs. Many people look at the cost of drugs as extortionate, wanting them to be cheaper, however we must weigh into the equation that the costs make the profit, which make people invest, which gives more money to develop better drugs.

I am by no means any fan of health care. I am a firm believer that living well is the far better option than fixing a problem that can be avoided. My father went in for surgery at the University of Pennsylvania, (a supposedly GREAT hospital and they left a sponge in him.

One more note about the French system. I have a friend moving to Paris on a transfer for his work. He can't even touch a flat over there for under $4000 US per month.


The bottom line is there is no such thing a FREE anything, let alone health care.

 

[Shai]

He went to England, France and to the land of Shai.

I live in Québec,Canada and yes Healtcare is free...But its one of the biggest problem in our society right now...People can spent literally a day (more than 12hrs) waiting in the hospital just for a consultation..We lack nurses and Doctors....Sometimes there is no bed availables for patients and the hospital are overcrowed.Cancer patients have sometimes to wait like 6 months to receive treatment...This is far from a perfect system.The healthcare problem here is always in the middle of political debates.

But yeah, its free...and medication is nearly free to.

Concerning taxes its not that bad...it depends on your income...The more you make,the more taxes you will pay...

For example on my last paycheck, before deduction I had 1200$ after the goverment pays itself I'm left with 860$..so its not that bad...here in the land of Shai...

 

[Boba Fett]

Dayum! Almost $400 just gone... like that.

 

[Vader AL]

another problem is free-riders, people who don't pay for insurance and don't pay their hospital bill since the hospitals can't turn them away. i'm torn on that issue but unless there's a baby involved i'm leaning towards turning them down for care.

 

[PosterBoyKelly]

Well I heard from a pal who lives in Canada that generally you get what you pay for with healthcare aka free = low standards. I can't say, I don't know, but this was his opinion. That most of the reall good doctors moved to the States to get paid more and than Canada was left with the leftovers. He hated it he said.

Also, did Moore show the minorities living in France? Remember the riots happening a year or 2 ago? I mean, not bashing France in ANY way, but from what I understand it's VERY classest, and what I remember from reading a lot fo the reports about those riots (which the news covered very little of) was that they were being cause by young minorities who couldn't get jobs or ANY service (they claimed) due to being African, Middle Eastern, Jewish etc. Again, not bashing the country or anything this is just what I REMEMBER reading.

I hate Moore, because he is a liar. I hear "It's the message that's imoortant!" a lot as a response to my feelings on him, but no the message clearly is void and NOT important if LIES and skewed truths are the foundation. I don't see how anyone, of any political side can take this guy seriously. He weakens any argument for any political party just by the fact that he's lying, and the BIGGEST problem is, is that MOST people who see his movies believe him straight out and are too lazy to do any independet research. It's propaganda of the worst sort where no one gains, and we all lose.

I think the biggest problem in America with healthcare are butt brains sueing everywhich way for crap. Know why insurance is so high? Cause some jerk is sueing and getting MILLIONS for something he should barely get thousands for. I think the courts need top put a cap on a lot of these cases for the amount you can get back. Yes doctors make mistakes, and should be sued for them, but sometimes they DON'T make mistakes, are trying to figure things out (health is NOT an exact science, what works for 1 person MAY NOT work for another) and in the process things aren't fixed as fast as they should be, or as fast as the patients wanting, and they get sued for trying to help someone. It's BS, and it needs to be limited. Than insurance rates go down, and we pay less.

 

[KitFisto]

Michael Moore is a bloated gas bag. He's more interested in saying his OPINIONS are facts then he is in factual documentary making.

I don't care if you're a Dem or a Rep......I don't know why anyone pays attention to this a$$ clown.

 

[Agent0028]

It seems what others have replied so far sorta goes along with the theory I've had about nationalized healthcare. It will be great for those people who can't afford healthcare right now. It will be horrible for the people who are able to self pay and make sure they get the absolute best care available. The majority of Americans lie in between and it seems to me that it will be good for some people with some ailments and bad for others. Personally I'm a small government kinda guy, so nationalized health care isn't something I'm thrilled about. Plus I keep picturing the hospital being run like the DMV. *shudder* On the other hand when I see people going without the kind of care they need and deserve as a human being I do feel that we need to work harder and find a solution to help that situation.

 

[PosterBoyKelly]

It seems what others have replied so far sorta goes along with the theory I've had about nationalized healthcare. It will be great for those people who can't afford healthcare right now. It will be horrible for the people who are able to self pay and make sure they get the absolute best care available. The majority of Americans lie in between and it seems to me that it will be good for some people with some ailments and bad for others. Personally I'm a small government kinda guy, so nationalized health care isn't something I'm thrilled about. Plus I keep picturing the hospital being run like the DMV. *shudder* On the other hand when I see people going without the kind of care they need and deserve as a human being I do feel that we need to work harder and find a solution to help that situation.

+1 on all accounts. Free isn't an answer, but there's gotta be better than what we have.

 

[Bannister]

.
For example on my last paycheck, before deduction I had 1200$ after the goverment pays itself I'm left with 860$..so its not that bad...here in the land of Shai...

No, no its not:

 

[Eli26]

Dayum! Almost $400 just gone... like that.

That would be closer to 300 sir. You know, because 340 is closer to 300. Either way, that's still a big chunk of our money gone.

Also, I have to agree with Shai. Our healthcare system sucks. Yes, they say it's free. But not to the average tax payer like Shai. You pay for those services through your taxes.

Anik is right, all our best doctors do move south of the border where all the money is. A lot of our doctors are local, but you do see a lot of foreign doctors as well. Last time I went to the emergency room, I had to go in a second time because they gave me the wrong antibiotics. Niiiice.

As I knew this would happen. My tounsils were so inflamed and my throat swollen. They couldn't check down my throat so they just assumed what I had. I remember telling the mother and girlfriend, I bet nothing was resolved here and I have to return. I hate when people base things on pure speculation. I even told the next doctor I saw on my second visit, I want a blood checkup to check to see if I have either strep throat, mono, or if it was some either kind of viral or infectious problem.

I am no doctor and I KNEW better to ask those questions. Sure enough they gave me a needle and ran some blood tests. Luckily they didn't call back, so it was nothing serious. And the pain in my throat subsided, and with it I had also dropped 13 lbs. That's what happens when you can't take in any food solids for eight straight days. lol

Oh yes, and like Shai had pointed out, the waiting is numbing. However, I am guessing this is no different from any other place in the world.

 

[Bannister]

That would be closer to 300 sir. You know, because 340 is closer to 300. Either way, that's still a big chunk of our money gone.

Also, I have to agree with Shai. Our healthcare system sucks. Yes, they say it's free. But not to the average tax payer like Shai. You pay through those services through your taxes.

Anik is right, all our best doctors do move south of the border where all the money is. A lot of our doctors are local, but you do see a lot of foreign doctors as well. Last time I went to the emergency room, I had to go in a second time because they gave me the wrong antibiotics. Niiiice.

As I knew this would happen. My tounsils were so inflamed and my throat swollen. They couldn't check down my throat so they just assumed what I had. I remember telling the mother and girlfriend, I bet nothing was resolved here and I have to return. I hate when people base things on pure speculation. I even told the next doctor I saw on my second visit, I want a blood checkup to check to see if I have either strep throat, mono, or if it was some either kind of viral or infectious problem.

I am no doctor and I KNEW better to ask those questions. Sure enough they gave me a needle and ran some blood tests. Luckily they didn't call back, so it was nothing serious. And the pain in my throat subsided, and with it I had also dropped 13 lbs. That's what happens when you can't take in any food solids for eight straight days. lol

Just like you Eli to completely ignore a picture of a hot chick. I mean damn! Damn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[DannieDarKo]

Just like you Eli to completely ignore a picture of a hot chick. I mean damn! Damn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Eli26]

I DIDN'T SEE IT! I ONLY READ THE FIRST POST IN THE FIRST PAGE!

I did recognize the woman after the fact, dammit! I was looking at it for quite a while.

You guys...oh man...shut the hell up! lol

Noooo, I never talk about women on here... *shakes head*

Obviously you guys don't know me.

I know I keep disappointing you guys. You're hoping I swing that way so you can have a piece of "moi" but sorry, this bucking steed (who's also hung as one), is for one girl only (and no, it's not Palmela Handerson), it's the girlfriend....NO SHE'S NOT MY HAND!

*stomps off*

Seriously I read the first few posts.. I don't always scroll down and read the entire thread...that's too much effort.

 

[pixletwin]

Just like you Eli to completely ignore a picture of a hot chick. I mean damn! Damn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You guys...oh man...shut the hell up! lol

 

[Bannister]

I DIDN'T SEE IT! I ONLY READ THE FIRST POST IN THE FIRST PAGE!

I did recognize the woman after the fact, dammit! I was looking at it for quite a while.

You guys...oh man...shut the hell up! lol

Noooo, I never talk about women on here... *shakes head*

Obviously you guys don't know me.

I know I keep disappointing you guys. You're hoping I swing that way so you can have a piece of "moi" but sorry, this bucking steed (who's also hung as one), is for one girl only (and no, it's not Palmela Handerson), it's the girlfriend....NO SHE'S NOT MY HAND!

*stomps off*

Seriously I read the first few posts.. I don't always scroll down and read the entire thread...that's too much effort.

It's responses like this that make it all worth while.

 

[carbo-fation]

 

[RoboDad]

My take on this issue is pretty much in line with what's been said.

Nationalized healthcare generally helps far fewer people than it "hurts" (by which I mean longer waits, poorer quality equipment, less care, especially post-op care, and so on).

Yes, some systems do allow people to supplement their "free" care with optional insurance, but when you consider than for most people the cost in taxes to support nationalized healthcare far exceed the cost paid today for health insurance (at least in the US), most people would not have enough left over to afford the additional insurance, so most people would be stuck with what the government sees fit to provide. And those of us in the US KNOW how well that usually turns out.

For most people, "free" healthcare will be anything but.