Star Wars Saga (OT/PT/ST) Discussion Thread

[JMT1979]

The ugly truth is that Lucas is a quasi-talented hack who made things up as he went along, and sometimes, by some miracle, some of them worked. Star Wars is ultimately pretty trashy and we're all just battered housewives with Stockholm Syndrome. That's why I still have 40 dolls in my SW wishlist while I enjoy very few of the actual characters. I just can't outrun my conditioning, I guess. And I collect based off aesthetics. The designs are cool, and the stories are better in my head. So... yeah.

I think Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back were the two great movies he was able to produce, and Return of the Jedi and Revenge of the Sith are really good, but slightly flawed movies. Star Wars isn't my favourite property - LOTR and the Dark Knight Trilogy are superior - but I grew up with Star Wars, so it has that nostalgic factor the others don't have.
The vehicles in Star Wars are what I collect - the Snowspeeder, X-Wing, Speeder Bike and AT-AT are all fantastic. Luke and Vader are my Hot Toy figures, and if they ever release a Bespin Han and Chewy, I'll get them too.

 

[greygoose]

Mando > Star Wars saga....

 

[Victοr]

I think Star Wars and Empire Strikes Back were the two great movies he was able to produce, and Return of the Jedi and Revenge of the Sith are really good, but slightly flawed movies. Star Wars isn't my favourite property - LOTR and the Dark Knight Trilogy are superior - but I grew up with Star Wars, so it has that nostalgic factor the others don't have.
The vehicles in Star Wars are what I collect - the Snowspeeder, X-Wing, Speeder Bike and AT-AT are all fantastic. Luke and Vader are my Hot Toy figures, and if they ever release a Bespin Han and Chewy, I'll get them too.

I'll be honest, I don't really enjoy any of the movies in the sense that I'll sit down and watch them. I quasi-grew up with the PT and all the 90s/00s games, then later got into the full EU, so SW, as a brand, is nostalgic for me. But if you told me to watch the flicks as entertainment, I'd pass. I'd rather go through a random other movie of any genre.

My entire interest of SW is based entirely on aesthetics. I'm a sucker for Sci-Fi x Mystical mixes (it's part of the reason why I prefer 40K over something like Star Trek), and SW is the first and foremore example. I love the concept of the Force and the its Wielders, the mysticism of ancient temples that's contrasted with the shiny spaceships, and so on. But I don't actually care for the entirety of it. It's just aesthetics and a case of completionism. I find the universe vastly underused, the interesting concepts tossed aside, and the actual execution to be severely lacking. But, like I said, I'm a battered housewife and I keep consoooooooming.

As far as my favourite franchises go... Honestly, I have no idea. I've spent the most time and money on comics, specifically Marvel stuff. But because they always try to be "the world outside your window", the escapism isn't as strong. They become dated and eventually boring, whereas properties with their own unique settings are alwasy fresh in a sense. Things like Batman, or contemporary characters in general, bore me rather fast. I loved Johns Green Lantern epic, but I don't care for the daily Earth stuff; I just want more space fantasy. So even in comics I can like a character, and want a dolly, but can't get in that mode where I am wholly entertained by each new adventure and the such. I've gone through a lot of "Phases" each tied with some Pop Culture element. After each period most waned and a few stuck through the next one, making some more relatively long lived.

As time goes on I find that I genuienly enjoy very few fictional properties. I'm just attached enough to a certain few things to be mildly entertained by new installments, and also want some core representation. Beyond that, it's on a week-by-week basis. My collection's a hodgepodge for that exact reason; some classics, some nostalgia, some mild entertainment.

I suppose I just was never obsessed with that one "thing". No matter the circles I run into, I missed that.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I'll be honest, I don't really enjoy any of the movies in the sense that I'll sit down and watch them.

 

[ZE_501]

The ugly truth is that Lucas is a quasi-talented hack who made things up as he went along,

I think we all figured that out decades ago. Obi Wan the compulsive liar is actually the Lucas self-insert.

 

[Victοr]

What, it's the truth. The universe has nice worldbuilding and aesthetics (parts of it anyhow), but the movies themselves range from basic to poor. Granted, the OT is a fine fairy tale in 50s Space, but come on, rewatching them? Like, you fellas just sit down, try to think of a movie to rewatch, and instead of literally anything else you go through Vroom-Vroom Luke's adventures? Multiple times in your lifetimes at that? I seriously hope you guys don't this...

I've not watched a single SW movie more than 2 times. No, wait, I watched ROTS quite a bit because I liked McDiarmid hamming it up, so it was one of my go-tos for my sick days. Uh, no, I mean, uh, P-POTTERY! P-PREQUEL POETRY!

I've poured far more time on the EU than I have the actual canon. Force Unleashed was sick as Hell and I'm tired of pretending it was not.

Kidding aside, I can appreciate the craftsmanship and the earnestness, but I just cannot see them as films that I can rewatch. Easily at least. I'll take them over a vast majority of things, sure, but despite my consumption of the IP in general, I'm not like other Warsfans who devour the films every few months.

I think we all figured that out decades ago. Obi Wan the compulsive liar is actually the Lucas self-insert.

No, no, you don't get it, it's all true. The Empire was both Space Rome, Space Nazi Germany and Space America-During-Vietnam. Luke and the Rebels are both a total riff on the Hero's Journey, but also a totally serious Political Allegory to Vietnam. The Emperor is both an evil wizard with little to no characterization, and also literally Nixon. Darth Vader was both literally a nobody who was going to die after the first movie, and also totally the secret star of a 6-movie saga he had all planned out. And that's not counting the 9-Movie Saga he had totes developed my dudes!

Lucas is a complete liar, and I stopped caring about "his vision" a long time ago. He copied so many things he created something new in a way, but that still doesn't make him an actual idea man, considering he doesn't understand half the things he takes influence from and tacks on. The Force is one of the most bonkers and ******** systems I've seen, and to this day KotOR II's dismantling of it is the only one that kinda makes sense, unfinished as it may have been.

SW to me is just what aesthetics I like. That's true for most things, but whereas comics have different continuities and universes, or games are specific installments and so on, SW is this huge multimedia thing that you can't love it all unless you're literally obsessed.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

OT forever. All others, nevah

 

[Prime Clone]

Mando > Star Wars saga....

But if it weren't for the Star Wars saga would you still like it?

 

[greygoose]

But if it weren't for the Star Wars saga would you still like it?

Probably.

Was only partly joking too.

 

[Prime Clone]

 

[Wor-Gar]

R2 is always with 3PO...

And Skywalker. R2, 3PO and a Skywalker... and that's it.

And Kenobi... R2, Kenobi, Skywalker, and 3PO!

And Chewbacca... R2, 3PO, Chewbacca, Kenobi and a Skywalker. And that's all.

And Yoda... R2, 3PO, Skywalker, Chewbacca, Kenobi and Yoda.

And Leia... sometimes.


Jesus, Star Wars is repetitive.

 

[a-dev]

I think we all figured that out decades ago. Obi Wan the compulsive liar is actually the Lucas self-insert.

One of my hopes for this show is that it could make Obi-wan less of a liar. Reduce his lie tally to just the big one about Anakin and Vader being different people.

Now watch it too skip over all the Uncle Owen stuff and Anakin's lightsaber stuff in favour of black woman Inquisitor kicking Obi-Wan's *** and her redemption arc, y'know, what we always wanted.

 

[Victοr]

R2 is always with 3PO...

And Skywalker. R2, 3PO and a Skywalker... and that's it.

And Kenobi... R2, Kenobi, Skywalker, and 3PO!

And Chewbacca... R2, 3PO, Chewbacca, Kenobi and a Skywalker. And that's all.

And Yoda... R2, 3PO, Skywalker, Chewbacca, Kenobi and Yoda.

And Leia... sometimes.


Jesus, Star Wars is repetitive.

To be fair, are there any big IPs that aren't? They all cover the same beats and character archetypes for decades on end. Star Trek is always about some smug Federation going against the same 5 space races. Star Wars is about the same basic fantasy party going on the same exact adventures against the same 5 enemy factions. Spider-Man is always broke, fights the same 15 enemies and just rotates girlfriends. And so on and so forth. Either you tell your story and are done, or you end up selling the same exact thing with a different wrapping.

In a way, that's why even after all this time I have a soft spot for the X-Men, even if I've gone through periods of downright hating them. Marvel's never really rebooted and thus the entire 60-year run is canon. We've seen Cyclops go from gooy-two-shoes team leader to a father to an ends-justify-the-means icon to an extremist and to an entire nation's general. The same villains keep getting recycled, but there's a sense of progression in the whole thing. That's better than most IPs can say. DC reboots every 20 years or so and they still do the same exact things. It took Superman nearly a century to have a kid, meanwhile Reed & Sue had Franklin in, what, 20 years? I'm not expecting Big 2 serials to have the plotting of creator owned works, but come on...

In the end, yeah, SW is repetitive, especially if you go into the spin-off media. The OT is about the Rebels trying to restore the Republic and fighting the Empire. The ST is about the Rebels/Republic trying to stop the New Empire. The old EU was about the (Jedi) Republic trying to stop... the New Empire and some BDSM aliens came in at the end. The PT was about the rise of the Empire through the Republic, and in the KotOR era it's about the (Jedi) Republic fighting the Sith Empire. Same concepts just slightly changed. The narrative remains similar, but the aesthetics change. Star Wars is ultimately a 50s Space Age/Art Deco riff on some Fantasy trappings, and it works, but it can easily become a case of the same thing being reheated over and over and over again.

But is there anything that reaches global popularity that doesn't turn into that?

 

[ZE_501]

Except R2 is not sad.

Listen. Understand. That R2 is out there. It can't be reasoned with, it can't be bargained with...it doesn't feel pity or remorse or fear...and it absolutely will not stop. Ever. Until you are dead.

Right @a-dev ?

 

[ZE_501]

One of my hopes for this show -

 

[Bravomite]

I think i wrote this before but I thought that it would have been neat if Obi-Wan show was a five part mini-series with each part titled (1) Fear (2) Anger (3) Hate (4) Suffering and (5) Hope.

Thematically it would focus on Obi-wan hitting rock bottom out in the desert alone with nothing but his memories and failures to dwell upon, feeling sorry for himself. It would also deal with the passage of time and not just be centred on one small period. He would deal with the stages of grief for Anakin, the jedi and the republic. He would face up against all the emotions that could lead someone down a dark path but at the end he would ultimately find hope, showing his fundamental difference to Anakin. Surely Obi-wan's greatest test is to hide for half his life, surrounded by his ghosts and suppress his jedi instinct to do something to help.

It would be threaded through out with dreams (gah i said this before boba did it so badly) which are essentially flashbacks through his own life, key moments shown from Obi-wan's perspective but all show Anakin's tendencies towards the dark (i.e. each focusing on the title element of that episode i.e. fear etc.). As these are dreams it's difficult for the viewer to discern whether they happened exactly that way or if Obi-wan is trying to put focus on little things that he may have missed or let slide, he is essentially punishing himself.

Each of his dreams would always slide sideways into the nightmare of his duel on Mustafar and end abruptly, waking him. Obi-wan should have PTSD. The final time we see it, the fight is longer and we effectively get to have this duel again but in way that the OT purists would prefer and imagined as kids.

He'd watch Luke from a far. Owen and Beru would initially encourage him to be involved with Luke (offer him guidance in case his force abilities manifested and be there to help him hide them and teach him) but Ben would refuse (no longer trusting his own judgement and ability to mentor someone). He would lose Owen's respect and essentially be shunned by him. Owen instead choosing to raise Luke with no knowledge of the force.

In the final episode Maul would find him and we would get that fight in live action, Obi-wan would defeat Maul and forgive him. He would cradle dying Maul in his arms and comfort him in contrast to how he turned away from Anakin and left him to burn. Obi-wan would forgive himself and find peace.

Obi-wan would try throughout to communicate with Qui-gon but fail until the final episode once he had forgive himself. Liam Neeson could then appear and tell him that Luke's midichlorians were off the chart... only kidding. Qui-gon would give Obi-wan hope that Luke could defeat Vader and confirm that the chosen one would bring balance to the force he had foreseen it. Only Obi-wan would interpret it that Luke is the chosen one and he would kill Vader, not turn him. With this message delivered Qui-gon's force essence would disperse.

No inquisitors. No lightsabres in present day until the last episode.

 

[Victοr]

I think i wrote this before but I thought that it would have been neat if Obi-Wan show was a five part mini-series with each part titled (1) Fear (2) Anger (3) Hate (4) Suffering and (5) Hope.

Thematically it would focus on Obi-wan hitting rock bottom out in the desert alone with nothing but his memories and failures to dwell upon, feeling sorry for himself. It would also deal with the passage of time and not just be centred on one small period. He would deal with the stages of grief for Anakin, the jedi and the republic. He would face up against all the emotions that could lead someone down a dark path but at the end he would ultimately find hope, showing his fundamental difference to Anakin. Surely Obi-wan's greatest test is to hide for half his life, surrounded by his ghosts and suppress his jedi instinct to do something to help.

It would be threaded through out with dreams (gah i said this before boba did it so badly) which are essentially flashbacks through his own life, key moments shown from Obi-wan's perspective only but all show Anakin's tendencies towards the dark (i.e. each focusing on the title element of that episode i.e. fear etc.). As these a dreams it's difficult for the viewer to discern whether they happened exactly that way or if Obi-wan is trying to put focus on little things that he may have missed or let slide, he is essentially punishing himself.

He'd watch Luke from a far. Owen and Beru would initially encourage him to be involved with Luke (offer him guidance in case his force abilities manifested and be there to help him hide them and teach him) but Ben would refuse (no longer trusting his own judgement and ability to mentor someone). He would lose Owen's respect and essentially be shunned him. Owen instead choosing to raise Luke with no knowledge of the force.

Each his dreams would always slide sideways into the nightmare of his duel on Mustafar and end abruptly, waking him. Obi-wan should have PTSD.

In the final episode Maul would find him and we would get that fight in live action, Obi-wan would defeat Maul and forgive him. He would cradle dying Maul in his arms as did not for Anakin. Obi-wan would forgive himself and find peace.

Obi-wan would try throughout to communicate with Qui-gon but fail until the final episode once he had forgive himself. Liam Neeson could then appear and tell him that Luke's midichlorians were off the chart... only kidding.

No inquisitors. No lightsabres until the last episode.

I'd have loved something like that, but this is Disney. Worse yet, it's D+. They're not in it to make anything "good", just passable commercialism filled with memberies and chances for more plastic dolls. I don't mind fanservice, but everything's cheap and uncool, so what's the point? At least something experimental can be interesting and new.

 

[Otomofan]

Generally, I quite like the old Star Wars movies. Makes me feel like a kid again.

I don't know what was more brilliant on Lucas' part; having the effects teams go that extra mile to give everything a lived in look, or having all those wonderful toy tie-ins so we could re-create the adventures over and over and over in our back yards.

Whatever it was, it worked.

Nearly half a century later, we're all a bunch of sad old grey-pubes and we're STILL ******* arguing about these movies and spending way too much of our money on these toys.

Oh, and the S.H.Figuarts Mandalorian Re-Armored Boba Fett is hands down one of the best figures of the year. It's gonna be very hard to top. Makes Hasbro's attempt look like a bootleg from India.

 

[TaliBane]

Mando > Star Wars saga....

As Khalil Gibran says in reference to children, Mando comes through the OT, not from it.

 

[ZE_501]

Nearly half a century later, we're all a bunch of sad old grey-pubes

Speak for yourself LOL

and we're STILL ******* arguing about these movies

LOL yes.

and spending way too much of our money on these toys.

Sometimes.