Star Wars: The Force Awakens (12/18/15)

[a-dev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

I'll see your list and raise you:
-Watto
-Coruscant

Yeah. That's about it. Qui-Gon is awesome because unlike any other actor in the PT, Liam Neeson never comes off corny. Even when he grabs Jar Jar's tongue at dinner, I don't roll my eyes at his actions or his stern "Don't do that again." As cool as he is, him being Obi-Wan's master does conflict with Obi-Wan's story in ESB/RotJ of Yoda training him, but that's explained by the fact he was once a Youngling being trained by Yoda

Agreed, he was the best actor in that film, probably the whole trilogy. My main problem with him is the unnecessary overcomplication that comes with him. Why go against our expectations that Yoda trained Obi-wan? Why delay Obi-wan meeting and training Anakin (most crucially) for an entire film for this character we never heard of before? Why overcomplicate the whole force ghost thing? Having said all that, I liked the character and Liam Neeson's performance. If the other jedi's had been like Qui-gon I'd have actually given a $h!t when they all died in ROTS.

 

[karamazov80]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

I think what you are touching on A-Dev is the biggest problem with the trilogy across the board (which isn't to say that there aren't others)--some of those specific things you like work in isolation, but there is no depth or sense to most of what is going on. Qui-Gon is good because Neeson is a great actor, but the things he does often don't make any sense, because the script sucks and wasn't well thought through. Same with Obi Wan. In an effort to make things too complex, Lucas ends up with something that isn't logically consistent.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

I think what you are touching on A-Dev is the biggest problem with the trilogy across the board (which isn't to say that there aren't others)--some of those specific things you like work in isolation, but there is no depth or sense to most of what is going on. Qui-Gon is good because Neeson is a great actor, but the things he does often don't make any sense, because the script sucks and wasn't well thought through. Same with Obi Wan. In an effort to make things too complex, Lucas ends up with something that isn't logically consistent.

[ame]https://youtu.be/_Z29OVZLbZk[/ame]

 

[Kamandi]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Why go against our expectations that Yoda trained Obi-wan?

Yoda was a headmaster of sorts over Jedi training.

So when Obi-Wan told Luke he was trained by Yoda, it was true. From a certain point of view.

 

[VintijDroidGutzz]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

I read an article a while back, with a blogger's personal idea of what would've improved TPM.. & I liked what I read actually.

In short - among other suggestions, Qui-Gon is sent on assignment to a large sprawling metropolis type city setting (forget why), & while out & about, a young 14yo or so Anakin tries to pick his pocket. This isn't a cutesy lil Ani - more a street wise, self styled survivor type. He's already his own man. There's a mild face off, but Qui-Gon senses something unique about him..

They end up crossing paths again. A mother / past is mentioned, but no heavy exposition to drag things down. A mutual respect / trust grows between them, due to events that unfold..

Anyway.. it sets a better tone for the film IMO. Someone that's had a little life experience outside a spare parts shop on a dust bowl planet, sits better with me. It reminds me a little more of what Ben told Luke when he described his father to him.

Ehh.. the prequels are what they are.

 

[stshammgod]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Yoda was a headmaster of sorts over Jedi training.

So when Obi-Wan told Luke he was trained by Yoda, it was true. From a certain point of view.

 

[Kamandi]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

In short - among other suggestions, Qui-Gon is sent on assignment to a large sprawling metropolis type city setting (forget why), & while out & about, a young 14yo or so Anakin tries to pick his pocket. This isn't a cutesy lil Ani - more a street wise, self styled survivor type. He's already his own man. There's a mild face off, but Qui-Gon senses something unique about him..

That would've worked better. Anakin would've been more of a Han Solo type and there would be a mirror of the Luke/Han character dynamic. Anakin needed to have some charisma like Solo to play off Kenobi's boyscout persona. Then people might've given a damn when Anakin started to turn to the dark side.

 

[ExMem-LarjaThwei]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Best scene in AOTC starts at 1:10:


[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ_eu5BxAsU"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ_eu5BxAsU[/ame]

 

[a-dev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

I think what you are touching on A-Dev is the biggest problem with the trilogy across the board (which isn't to say that there aren't others)--some of those specific things you like work in isolation, but there is no depth or sense to most of what is going on. Qui-Gon is good because Neeson is a great actor, but the things he does often don't make any sense, because the script sucks and wasn't well thought through. Same with Obi Wan. In an effort to make things too complex, Lucas ends up with something that isn't logically consistent.

Yeah, agreed.

Yoda was a headmaster of sorts over Jedi training.

So when Obi-Wan told Luke he was trained by Yoda, it was true. From a certain point of view.

I know theres a work-around to it. My point was no one ever heard Obi-wan say ''...there you will learn from Yoda, the jedi master who instructed me'' and then thought ''oh but maybe Obi-wan omitted the details of his other teacher from the age of 10 and up" or any crap like that. It would have been much easier to simply proceed on everyone's assumption that Yoda taught Obi-wan. Enough said. There was no need to overcomplicate it - especially not when theres a more pressing story needing to be told. And a far more relevant character relationship to build between Obi-wan and Anakin.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Yoda was the only Jedi left though, and he had instructed Obi Wan. Kinda odd to go into details about Qui Gon when Luke is freezing his ass off and dying, IMO.

On the bright side, it'd be an awesome skit for Robot Chicken to have Obi bust out in a tangent about Darth Maul and Qui Gon and have Luke die of exposure before he finishes.

 

[VintijDroidGutzz]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Yoda was the only Jedi left though, and he had instructed Obi Wan. Kinda odd to go into details about Qui Gon when Luke is freezing his ass off and dying, IMO.

On the bright side, it'd be an awesome skit for Robot Chicken to have Obi bust out in a tangent about Darth Maul and Qui Gon and have Luke die of exposure before he finishes.

"Beeennnn... Get. To. The. Point...."

 

[a-dev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Yoda was the only Jedi left though, and he had instructed Obi Wan. Kinda odd to go into details about Qui Gon when Luke is freezing his ass off and dying, IMO.

On the bright side, it'd be an awesome skit for Robot Chicken to have Obi bust out in a tangent about Darth Maul and Qui Gon and have Luke die of exposure before he finishes.

I would love to see that.

Although again, I'm arguing from what I think should and shouldn't have been. Qui-Gon should never have been written in is basically the point I'm making. Then none of this would be an issue for discussion.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

I would love to see that.

Although again, I'm arguing from what I think should and shouldn't have been. Qui-Gon should never have been written in is basically the point I'm making. Then none of this would be an issue for discussion.

Unless the point was to keep people discussing Star Wars for decades.

 

[a-dev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Maybe. I just wish we were discussing how brilliantly the PT sets up the OT.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Maybe. I just wish we were discussing how brilliantly the PT sets up the OT.

Good or bad, I think it does that just fine.

 

[a-dev]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Good or bad, I think it does that just fine.

We face an 'agree to disagree' scenario methinks.

 

[Kamandi]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

"Luke!"

"Ben!"

"Luke... you must go to the Coruscant system. There you will find a man. He doesn't have any money. What he does have is a particular set of skills..."

 

[karamazov80]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Good or bad, I think it does that just fine.

Nam is right. The prequels do set up the OT. . .very badly and in a way that contributes nothing useful to the OT at all, but it sets them up, nonetheless.

 

[pixletwin]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

Nam is right. The prequels do set up the OT. . .very badly and in a way that contributes nothing useful to the OT at all, but it sets them up, nonetheless.

I disagree. When Luke asks Ben about his father that whole exchange has more depth to... especially where Ben pauses before telling him. The PT made that scene more meaningful. At least to me. But then I understand the difference between opinion and fact.

 

[karamazov80]

Re: Star Wars: Episode VII (2015) Discussion Thread

But then I understand the difference between opinion and fact.

That is pretty funny. Good one.