Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2)

[Bo Shrek]

Make you wonder how bad the Alliance after ROTJ ****ed things up to be put back into the same situation again. When I hear the “spark the lights the fire” line it makes me want to throw up!!! The empire / first order must have some good SOP (standards of practice) in place to be where they are shortly after the empire fell!!

 

[TaliBane]

The scene clearly shows the double (orange) doors of an airlock separating the bridge and the rest of the ship:

I hate to ask, but that whole room with the "air lock" is utterly destroyed. if that orange bulkhead is indeed an air lock (which I don't think it is*,) shouldn't it have been triggered by now? Like when the WHOLE AREA was blown away? It kinda makes no sense at all that it's just sitting there untriggered/open when - IF its an airlock - it's specifically designed to seal off the rest of the ship from just such a destruction/depressurization/debris event. Right?

And what you're describing isn't actually seen on screen - you're making an assumption firstly that it's an airlock, and second that's it's triggered in the couple of seconds that it's off-screen. And buttressing the argument by showing a PT security (NOT airlock) door.

And who triggers that orange airlock door? Nobody is watching her directly, and she doesn't do anything visibly to cue us that she triggers it using the force or whatever.


* If you look in the background of the same video where Leia is being wheeled away on the stretcher, you can see "regular" interior corridor doors have the same orange double-wall/bulkhead look to it.

What also makes little sense is that you're essentially saying there are TWO airlock doors in that hallway she drifts into - the one she touches and the orange one. Why would a basic interior command room have TWO airlocks right next to each other? It's something you see in SCI-FI (which SW isn't, though we'll ignore that like RJ did) movies where people physically enter/exit space, not deep inside an interior room like that.

 

[Prime Clone]

The empire / first order must have some good SOP (standards of practice) in place to be where they are shortly after the empire fell!!

Not only that, but to regroup within hours/days of losing Starkiller Base and have the Resistance on the run already. The Empire took three years after the loss of the first Death Star.

 

[e30ernest]

The door behind her never did close though, and we know SW doesn't follow how sound in space would normally work so we should have heard that door first. But all in all it's hardly the most important beef in a film full of oddities lol, I suppose we can just say that both the inner and outer door did their things at the same time and hence there was no sound beforehand and the camera angle obscured it.

But even then...

I still barely buy it

This is why I said it was badly shot. They should have showed that door close behind her or at least close at the same time they opened that corridor door. But yeah, even on first viewing I understood that part as an airtight bulkhead door that acts as an airlock in the event of decompression.

I hate to ask, but that whole room with the "air lock" is utterly destroyed. if that orange bulkhead is indeed an air lock (which I don't think it is*,) shouldn't it have been triggered by now? Like when the WHOLE AREA was blown away? It kinda makes no sense at all that it's just sitting there untriggered/open when - IF its an airlock - it's specifically designed to seal off the rest of the ship from just such a destruction/depressurization/debris event. Right?

It wasn't triggered since the corridor door was closed. You only needed one side to be closed.

And what you're describing isn't actually seen on screen - you're making an assumption firstly that it's an airlock, and second that's it's triggered in the couple of seconds that it's off-screen. And buttressing the argument by showing a PT security (NOT airlock) door.

Yes you are correct, I am assuming. But this was to me rather common sense when I first watched the movie. I saw that and immediately thought it was an airtight bulkhead door. Maybe it's all my years watching sci-fi shows so the thought of airtight bulkhead doors sealing sections off a ship came second nature.

And who triggers that orange airlock door? Nobody is watching her directly, and she doesn't do anything visibly to cue us that she triggers it using the force or whatever.

Watch the scene again. Poe spots her floating back so they run to the door.

* If you look in the background of the same video where Leia is being wheeled away on the stretcher, you can see "regular" interior corridor doors have the same orange double-wall/bulkhead look to it.

Which makes sense for a ship Remember, these ships are modeled after naval warships, and naval warships have watertight bulkhead doors in every section to seal off breaches.

What also makes little sense is that you're essentially saying there are TWO airlock doors in that hallway she drifts into - the one she touches and the orange one. Why would a basic interior command room have TWO airlocks right next to each other? It's something you see in SCI-FI (which SW isn't, though we'll ignore that like RJ did) movies where people physically enter/exit space, not deep inside an interior room like that.

That's how airlocks work. You need a pair of each door. One side facing the vacuum, one side facing the pressurized cabin. If you only had one set of doors, then opening that would expose everything else into vacuum. You have to close one side first.

 

[Rudimus]

Luke wasn't perfect in the OT. Yoda told him that if he confronts Vader early he would destroy all that Han & Leia had fought for & suffered. That's why the bespin scene is featured in TFA. Lukes ultimate failure lies with the rise of Snoke & his recruitment of Kylo, how Luke couln't see that power means he was myopic & that is where the sequel trilogy should've started but either they pulled it all out of their ***, or they planned prequels to these sequels.

 

[TaliBane]

Watch the scene again. Poe spots her floating back so they run to the door.

I did, here's what I saw:

Poe (in a part of the ship that's distant from where Leia arrives) looks out a window and sees Leia, and starts running. They then cut to Leia drifting into the debris-strewn room, and then arrive at door/window. At that moment when she touches the window, Poe is STILL running down the hallway in the distance (maybe 50 feet away).

The problem: He doesn't have eyes on Leia when the "air-lock" door closes, so who closes it (i.e. without crushing her)?

And to be very clear, Star Wars is NOT science fiction, a fact RJ seems to have overlooked. While there was mention of gravity dampers and supernovas and other sci-fi-like terms in the OT, we never saw people interact with zero gravity, there was no silence in space, no pressure/temperature issues with entering what appears to be no atmosphere inside the space slug etc etc. The idea of all of this scene: a human in zero-g, freezing in space, the debris floating in the room, the need for "air locks" - none of this had any precedent in the OT.

So what I'm saying is not only is this scene pure cheese from a dramatic perspective (laughable to even many who liked TLJ,) and makes little sense from a logic/geography perspective, the main issue is that it goes against what was set up in the OT - because the OT isn't sci-fi, even if the trappings of sci-fi loosely form its backdrop.

That's how airlocks work. You need a pair of each door. One side facing the vacuum, one side facing the pressurized cabin. If you only had one set of doors, then opening that would expose everything else into vacuum. You have to close one side first.

You are confusing airlocks - which are rooms generally designed to facilitate human movement between pressurized and non-pressurized environments - with bulkhead doors common throughout ships and submarines (and I suppose spaceships in sci-fi shows,) which are designed to seal off a breached area from the rest of the vessel in an emergency.

The doors seen in those corridors we are discussing - are bulkhead doors. Airlocks would only exist where people would enter/exit space.

There would be no reason whatsoever for an airlock to exist in the location where Leia touches the window because it is simply a short hallway leading from a main corridor into a large command center room, not a place where people enter/exit space.

 

[e30ernest]

I did, here's what I saw:

Poe (in a part of the ship that's distant from where Leia arrives) looks out a window and sees Leia, and starts running. They then cut to Leia drifting into the debris-strewn room, and then arrive at door/window. At that moment when she touches the window, Poe is STILL running down the hallway in the distance (maybe 50 feet away).

The problem: He doesn't have eyes on Leia when the "air-lock" door closes, so who closes it (i.e. without crushing her)?

There are a number of ways this could be triggered though. It could be toggled by crossing the door threshold (like in Star Trek's or the usual mall's automatic doors).

And to be very clear, Star Wars is NOT science fiction, a fact RJ seems to have overlooked. While there was mention of gravity dampers and supernovas and other sci-fi-like terms in the OT, we never saw people interact with zero gravity, there was no silence in space, no pressure/temperature issues with entering what appears to be no atmosphere inside the space slug etc etc. The idea of all of this scene: a human in zero-g, freezing in space, the debris floating in the room, the need for "air locks" - none of this had any precedent in the OT.

So what I'm saying is not only is this scene pure cheese from a dramatic perspective (laughable to even many who liked TLJ,) and makes little sense from a logic/geography perspective, the main issue is that it goes against what was set up in the OT - because the OT isn't sci-fi, even if the trappings of sci-fi loosely form its backdrop.

Heh you're the first person I've heard to not like this scene potentially for its realism lol... Most people would complain about the Leia Poppins scene because it did not fit the insta-death trope of getting ejected out of a spacecraft into space. It ruins their immersion/suspension of disbelief not knowing that you do not die instantaneously in space.

Also, a lot of people would criticize Star Wars for its lack of scientific grounding (calling it a fantasy movie rather than a sci-fi movie), so I guess some people would hate on a Star Wars movie if it started adopting scientifically accurate concepts? Interesting.... Seems like a no-win.

You are confusing airlocks - which are rooms generally designed to facilitate human movement between pressurized and non-pressurized environments - with bulkhead doors common throughout ships and submarines (and I suppose spaceships in sci-fi shows,) which are designed to seal off a breached area from the rest of the vessel in an emergency.

The doors seen in those corridors we are discussing - are bulkhead doors. Airlocks would only exist where people would enter/exit space.

There would be no reason whatsoever for an airlock to exist in the location where Leia touches the window because it is simply a short hallway leading from a main corridor into a large command center room, not a place where people enter/exit space.

Yes you are right, I am interchanging them and using the term "airlock" when I should mean "bulkhead door".

However, the ISS has double hatch/doors between module/segments too. Taken from Street View, here's a hatch separating a section inside the Unity module:

Here is the other side of that hatch showing a second hatch at the other side:

Here is a close up of that hatch (to show you that it is indeed a hatch):

So yeah it is entirely plausible to have two sets of bulkhead doors to protect a section of a ship.

 

[YoNoSe]

Star Doors.

 

[crows]

Okay, so what if Lucas KNEW that Kennedy was a bad choice to run this franchice and he picked her on purpose?
What if he KNEW that this is what was gonna happened and he picked her just so that he would get his reputation back? what if the Disney sell was part of his plan to make people appreciate the prequels?
what if this was all planned and now hes just laughing at all the chaos?

 

[Sachiel]

 

[Wor-Gar]

 

[cerealkeller]

I was mulling over what my expectations before the movie came out when in the trailer why Luke decided that "it's time for the Jedi to end" and even though I truly do love his character arc( unpopular opinion I know but we can disagree and still all be fans) I think my expectations would at least have been a more understandable reason for many fans:
Luke originally went to Ach-To looking for answers on how to stop the rising darkness before the First Order completes their domination of the Republic. To see if the very first Jedi had any lost wisdom on how the continuing cycle of the battle with the light and dark side of the Force can truly be stopped before it comes to galactic war yet again.

But while searching for his answers he discovers some terrible truth about the very foundation the Jedi are built upon. Perhaps they originally wanted the power of the Force for themselves and killed any child who they thought had a future using the dark side across the galaxy and were then able to build the Jedi Order. This would make Luke realize how his moment of weakness seeing the darkness in Ben and almost killing him while he slept goes all the way back to what made the Jedi always cause the cycle of battle between the light and dark sides of the Force. When Luke realizes it, his thinking is that the best way to end his battle is to take the Jedi Order out of the equation and die on the island along side the very foundation of the Jedi Order.

Everything in the Last Jedi could play out as is but I think it would have at least given long time fans to not think of Luke as a coward but just someone who is making that sacrifice to remove the Jedi from this galactic struggle forever.

I don't know, maybe Abrams could have Luke mention something like this as a reveal like Obi-Wan told Luke in Jedi about the real history with Anakin and revealing Leia as his sister. Would be a way to help justify Luke's thinking in my opinion. Maybe their are plot holes I'm not thinking of but these were my thoughts as I was showering [emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[loki2371]

No worries. Luke's failure to figure out the Jedi's shortcomings and how to rectify it will all be resolved. After all now that Rey has the sacred Jedi texts I'm sure she'll figure out what thousands of generations of Jedi could not.

 

[crows]

No worries. Luke's failure to figure out the Jedi's shortcomings and how to rectify it will all be resolved. After all now that Rey has the sacred Jedi texts I'm sure she'll figure out what thousands of generations of Jedi could not.

There never was a girl jedi before
The solution was missing the female touch

 

[RIDDICK]

Luke wasn't perfect in the OT. Yoda told him that if he confronts Vader early he would destroy all that Han & Leia had fought for & suffered.

Yoda was full of ****, he only cared for long term implications. And instead of training like crazy for years and killing his father (which actually wouldn't do anything to bring down the Empire) Luke won by bein' him self and reminding his father of who he was.

So yeah, he wasn't perfect at all, he failed a lot.
But he was a great character with a lot of heart and determination.

What TLJ did to him is a crime against timeless fiction.

 

[Cocoboloboy]

I don’t always agree with Riddick...but when I do...it’s about TLJ.

 

[Rudimus]

Yoda was full of ****, he only cared for long term implications. And instead of training like crazy for years and killing his father (which actually wouldn't do anything to bring down the Empire) Luke won by bein' him self and reminding his father of who he was.

So yeah, he wasn't perfect at all, he failed a lot.
But he was a great character with a lot of heart and determination.

What TLJ did to him is a crime against timeless fiction.

From a certain point of view. From my point of view Luke was put into dire circumstances & often got too emotional, even turning to the Dark side briefly to defeat Vader & willing to sacrifise himself in order to have his father ultimately save him. His portrayal in TLJ was in-line with his OT character for me. TFA was when everyone should of realized there was something wrong with Luke, as before he would of used the force to see Han in danger & save him like ESB. But as I said in my earlier post that was what lead to Kylo to exist in the fire place & Bespin was a pivotal point in the saga.

 

[TaliBane]

There are a number of ways this could be triggered though. It could be toggled by crossing the door threshold (like in Star Trek's or the usual mall's automatic doors).

Okay, now we've moved on to mall doors. The doors you're referring to have very little safety purpose - they're for privacy and/or security.

Focus on all that floating debris in the destroyed TLJ room. Do you seriously think an airlock door that is "toggled" by something (ANY...thing) crossing its threshold is a safe concept? Everyone's all safe in the corridor until a piece of debris floats into the door's sensor and whooosh - open goes the airlock door and everyone gets sucked out. That makes no sense - am I wrong?

Heh you're the first person I've heard to not like this scene potentially for its realism lol... Most people would complain about the Leia Poppins scene because it did not fit the insta-death trope of getting ejected out of a spacecraft into space. It ruins their immersion/suspension of disbelief not knowing that you do not die instantaneously in space.

Also, a lot of people would criticize Star Wars for its lack of scientific grounding (calling it a fantasy movie rather than a sci-fi movie), so I guess some people would hate on a Star Wars movie if it started adopting scientifically accurate concepts? Interesting.... Seems like a no-win.

It's not "hate" (and wow, that word gets a SERIOUS workout these days) - it is a violation of the saga's genre to go in that direction. It's like if hard science suddenly became an integral part of scenes in LOTR. It's myth and fantasy.

And if you want views on that scene, read the comments below the youtube video. And yes, I'm sure it's just a half dozen "haters" who created shill accounts to post 1000 "worst SW moment ever" comments.

Yes you are right, I am interchanging them and using the term "airlock" when I should mean "bulkhead door".

However, the ISS has double hatch/doors between module/segments too. Taken from Street View, here's a hatch separating a section inside the Unity module:

Here is the other side of that hatch showing a second hatch at the other side:

Here is a close up of that hatch (to show you that it is indeed a hatch):

So yeah it is entirely plausible to have two sets of bulkhead doors to protect a section of a ship.

Comparing that ship in TLJ to ISS is like comparing a futuristic ocean liner to a present-day dinghy. The module on ISS is only the length of a bus - obviously every bulkhead would be designed in that way. You're never more than a few meters from the vacuum of space.

And in TLJ did you notice that it's zero-g in one room, but full gravity in the other, apparently separated simply by a door? That's an indication that we're not in Kansas anymore - or orbiting earth in an oversized dumpster.

 

[RIDDICK]

even turning to the Dark side briefly...

Like Anakin who wiped out an entire Tusken village in rage, Luke got overly angry and emotional for a brief period of time.
These weren't "turning to the dark side" moments, otherwise they wouldn't immediately turn back to normal.

See, stuff like this is why your "certain point of view" can't be viewed as objective.

 

[e30ernest]

Focus on all that floating debris in the destroyed TLJ room. Do you seriously think an airlock door that is "toggled" by something (ANY...thing) crossing its threshold is a safe concept? Everyone's all safe in the corridor until a piece of debris floats into the door's sensor and whooosh - open goes the airlock door and everyone gets sucked out. That makes no sense - am I wrong?

It's not "hate" (and wow, that word gets a SERIOUS workout these days) - it is a violation of the saga's genre to go in that direction. It's like if hard science suddenly became an integral part of scenes in LOTR. It's myth and fantasy.

Apart from the fact that many of Star War's technology is based on 70's stuff, I'd think that they'd have systems sophisticated enough to differentiate between a human and floating debris. But yeah you are right though, SW is really poor at portraying how things work in their universe, at least from a logical scientific standpoint. Which was why I originally said I appreciated this part of the film for how rare it happens in SW):

I actually appreciated that this was one of the rare scientifically plausible moments shown in a Star Wars film! I mean, it was badly filmed, but it correctly shows that you can be exposed to the vacuum of space for up to 2 minutes or so and survive with minor injuries.

Comparing that ship in TLJ to ISS is like comparing a futuristic ocean liner to a present-day dinghy. The module on ISS is only the length of a bus - obviously every bulkhead would be designed in that way. You're never more than a few meters from the vacuum of space.

And in TLJ did you notice that it's zero-g in one room, but full gravity in the other, apparently separated simply by a door? That's an indication that we're not in Kansas anymore - or orbiting earth in an oversized dumpster.

It does set precedent though where real world spacecraft have double doors on bulkheads to protect against depressurization. It also makes sense for this case, where the bridge is in a very vulnerable spot on the ship.

For better or for worse, scientific elements are stating to creep in various parts of Star Wars. Me personally, I like it when they add little snippets like these.