Star Wars: The Last Jedi (Dec 15th, 2017)

[Khev]

ask them who their favorite bad guy was

From the new movies? That's easy. Hands down RO Vader. I don't even have to ask as they've said as much outright. They do both like Kylo though and they both love BB-8 and K-2SO so there have been some real wins with characters in the new flicks just not so much when it comes to new male heroes.

 

[crows]

From the new movies? That's easy. Hands down RO Vader. I don't even have to ask as they've said as much outright. They do both like Kylo though.

so the bad guy from the old movies... jesus... thats why killing snoke so early was so stupid
now there are no good villains and kylo cant just become the new vader in the third one....

 

[klwn]

Very true. Honestly I was thinking Finn might really end up being a likeable hero, given his unique backstory and his predicament at the end of tfa. I wanted to see how he came back from that and where they took him. ‘We can rebuild him. We have the technology.’

Unfortunately I feel he was wasted in TLJ.

I am not much of a 'non-Force sensitive' guy, those characters are a bit like background noise to me, but I really liked Finn's arc in TFA and I feel like he could have become absolutely awesome in this movie. Of course with a completely different script, like giving him a bigger role in the Resistance and realizing he is a beast with a rifle in his hands.
Or he could have Phasma tracking him or something. But ffs not Rose and the casino planet.

so the bad guy from the old movies... jesus... thats why killing snoke so early was so stupid
now there are no good villains and kylo cant just become the new vader in the third one....

Snoke had so much potential. I have seen so many people say 'who cares? he wasn't important, he's like Palpatine'. Well, yeah... he wasn't important because Ruin Johnson decided to make him unimportant
Plus he was still massively important to the FO since he is the one that put it together, but becomes completely disposable to serve the 'plot'.

 

[Prime Clone]

It's great that such a subversive film is making bank - I never would have expected LFL to greenlight such a risky venture, and their faith in Johnson's vision appears to have paid off, looking strictly at the numbers.

However part of the success could actually be BECAUSE of the backlash - the old "any publicity is good publicity" axiom, where people check it out to see what all the fuss is about.

And there must be at least SOME nervousness at LFL due to the fan backlash and low RT score. Given how prone they are to axing directors, Johnson's new trilogy may not be 100% safe.

 

[klwn]

From the new movies? That's easy. Hands down RO Vader. I don't even have to ask as they've said as much outright. They do both like Kylo though and they both love BB-8 and K-2SO so there have been some real wins with characters in the new flicks just not so much when it comes to new male heroes.

No wonder. I bet they loved it.



So good. Makes me as giggly as weatherman Yoda.

 

[Niltusk]

From the new movies? That's easy. Hands down RO Vader. I don't even have to ask as they've said as much outright. They do both like Kylo though and they both love BB-8 and K-2SO so there have been some real wins with characters in the new flicks just not so much when it comes to new male heroes.

K-2SO is the hero we need in TLJ.

"Watching Khev with the machine, it was suddenly so clear. K-2SO, would never stop. It would never leave him, and it would never hurt him, never shout at him, or get drunk and hit him, or say it was too busy to spend time with him. It would always be there. And it would die, to protect him. Of all the would-be fathers who came and went over the years, this thing, this machine, was the only one who measured up. In an insane world, it was the sanest choice."

 

[TonTon]

As much as I love TFA and TLJ I do recognize that neither film has given kids a new male hero to latch onto. I even asked my own kids (11 year old daughter, 8 year old son) who their favorite male and female good guys were from the new movies and while they both instantly picked Rey as the female (Jyn got the shaft on account of "no lightsaber, Force, or spaceship" but in time they'll come around ) who did they pick among the males? Han in TFA and Luke in TLJ. No Finn. No Poe. Even for me my favorite male character after Luke in TLJ was Benicio Del Toro. That's a big change from the OT where even though it was mostly a boy's story all the girls still had Leia, a prominent hero and massive icon in her own right. No such equivalent in the new flicks yet.

In TFA Finn was clearly relegated to the sidekick role and every moment where the trailers had built him up (using the lightsaber to fight the stormtrooper, to fight Ren) the movie ultimately revealed that he would be beat up and need help out of the situation. Plus he was never going to upstage Han.

Poe was barely in TFA but even now I keep feeling like they've either misused Isaac or maybe the character of Poe is just not that interesting to begin with. Han was the cool hotshot pilot but he was more importantly the regular character (non Jedi/non Rebel) who was skeptical of all the nonsense he was getting dragged into. For the most part Poe just comes across as an earnest company man.

Still need to see TLJ to solidify my thoughts on Finn and Poe, but neither of their storylines on first viewing did much for me--Ren and Luke were the more interesting storylines in this film. Han and Luke clearly stole the show in both flicks as far as heroes go though.

I am not much of a 'non-Force sensitive' guy, those characters are a bit like background noise to me, but I really liked Finn's arc in TFA and I feel like he could have become absolutely awesome in this movie. Of course with a completely different script, like giving him a bigger role in the Resistance and realizing he is a beast with a rifle in his hands.
Or he could have Phasma tracking him or something. But ffs not Rose and the casino planet.

Yeah, they showed him to be brave in TFA and was willing to thrust himself into some serious situations (fight Ren with the saber), when they played his injury/recovery for laughs to start TLJ it seemed likely they weren't going to do anything to interesting/serious with his character.

 

[mrdbios]

Snoke had so much potential. I have seen so many people say 'who cares? he wasn't important, he's like Palpatine'. Well, yeah... he wasn't important because Ruin Johnson decided to make him unimportant
Plus he was still massively important to the FO since he is the one that put it together, but becomes completely disposable to serve the 'plot'.

I would have liked to see more Snoke, especially after the bit got of him in TLJ. I thought the CGI was impressive and really enjoyed him onscreen. But I'm also OK with what happened, and hope it leads to an even stronger Kylo next movie. Somebody else said it much earlier in this thread, but maybe Kylo will end up being an anti-Vader, becoming more and more evil and unredeemable at the end of the trilogy.

As far as background, I kind of look at the lack of information on Snoke as similar to the Emperor. Coming out of ROTJ when it first came out, we didn't have very much info on the Emperor. The PT filled in that information much later. Maybe we could get a Snoke-centric movie later on as a stand-alone Star Wars Story?

 

[crows]

K-2SO is the hero we need in TLJ.

"Watching Khev with the machine, it was suddenly so clear. K-2SO, would never stop. It would never leave him, and it would never hurt him, never shout at him, or get drunk and hit him, or say it was too busy to spend time with him. It would always be there. And it would die, to protect him. Of all the would-be fathers who came and went over the years, this thing, this machine, was the only one who measured up. In an insane world, it was the sanest choice."

K-2SO was actually more likable and had better presence than Rose and Holdo together

a sarcastic monotone robot ends up being more pleasant and easier to connect than full fleshed out cliche female characters in the last jedi

 

[TaliBane]

That’s actually a sizable shift. I thought you were saying a 10% increase (as in 30% to 33%), but it looks like it went from between 29% to 33% for TFA to 38% for RO and 42% in TLJ. That’s a pretty decent shift in a short amount of time.

Based on Cinemascore TFA was 36% female for opening weekend (I did see a 33% reported recently, but that's not what it was reported as in 2015,) while TLJ was 42% female for opening weekend - but these numbers wiggle slightly because of rounding. It is possible more men rush out opening weekend, making opening weekend weighted more male.

All I mean is that TLJ was OVERTLY directed at females, in casting/character, story content and very much in marketing/merchandizing. Add to that the political context, which has very much played a part: more overt feminist-angle mass-media news stories about TLJ (maybe due to the Trump backdrop and #metoo) being a feminist movie in various ways - supplanting male audience, multiple strong female leaders, Poe and "toxic masculinity" etc.

What I meant was that given that VERY pronounced female-oriented social and market context (which - other than the new Luke being female - didn't exist for TFA) I don't consider an increase of somewhere around 6-9% to be that significant.

 

[Niltusk]

I was looking forward to Snoke and the Knights of Ren, but honestly, as soon as I saw him in his stupid *** Gold bathrobe, I'm glad he was written off, and I'm glad Johnson didn't touch the Knights.

 

[rushmore223]

I keep reading and seeing the same complaints get boiled down to "can't stand to see a woman in a position of power" in Star Wars.

Is your ego and masculinity so ****ing fragile?!

I swear to god, maybe if a few of you managed to at least get laid you might not be so ****ing scared of women.

As a father of 2 Daughters, I'm honestly happy that they have strong female role models to look up to and don't have to be told over and over that they are best keeping their mouths shut and looking pretty.

So sorry some of you just can't handle this, welcome to the 21st century, your ego is going to go through a beating for the rest of your lives.

 

[klwn]

I would have liked to see more Snoke, especially after the bit got of him in TLJ. I thought the CGI was impressive and really enjoyed him onscreen. But I'm also OK with what happened, and hope it leads to an even stronger Kylo next movie. Somebody else said it much earlier in this thread, but maybe Kylo will end up being an anti-Vader, becoming more and more evil and unredeemable at the end of the trilogy.

As far as background, I kind of look at the lack of information on Snoke as similar to the Emperor. Coming out of ROTJ when it first came out, we didn't have very much info on the Emperor. The PT filled in that information much later. Maybe we could get a Snoke-centric movie later on as a stand-alone Star Wars Story?

If him dying like that is the price to pay to get a Snoke-centric movie later, I'm all for it. Unfortunately, with Lucasfilm being part of Disney, I think it's gonna be a while before we see a movie about the dark side in general and a character like Snoke in particular. That'd be awesome though.

I have no doubt there will be at least a book about him. That's a lot of money right there, with the movie offering zero backstory but still making him look like a Force monster. And yeah the CGI was pretty amazing, he was so creepy up close.

 

[rushmore223]

K-2SO was actually more likable and had better presence than Rose and Holdo together

a sarcastic monotone robot ends up being more pleasant and easier to connect than full fleshed out cliche female characters in the last jedi

In all fairness, K2-S0 was one of the most likable characters in all of Star Wars, and the most likable character in RO, doesn't diminish RO, just compliments it.

 

[mrdbios]

Poe was barely in TFA but even now I keep feeling like they've either misused Isaac or maybe the character of Poe is just not that interesting to begin with. ... For the most part Poe just comes across as an earnest company man.

I don't remember the specifics, but wasn't Poe originally supposed to die in the TIE fighter crash, and they changed the story to put him back in later on? If that was true, it certainly explains why his presence in TFA was minimal.

 

[Khev]

In TFA Finn was clearly relegated to the sidekick role and every moment where the trailers had built him up (using the lightsaber to fight the stormtrooper, to fight Ren) the movie ultimately revealed that he would be beat up and need help out of the situation. Plus he was never going to upstage Han.

Poe was barely in TFA but even now I keep feeling like they've either misused Isaac or maybe the character of Poe is just not that interesting to begin with. Han was the cool hotshot pilot but he was more importantly the regular character (non Jedi/non Rebel) who was skeptical of all the nonsense he was getting dragged into. For the most part Poe just comes across as an earnest company man.

Still need to see TLJ to solidify my thoughts on Finn and Poe, but neither of their storylines on first viewing did much for me--Ren and Luke were the more interesting storylines in this film. Han and Luke clearly stole the show in both flicks as far as heroes go though.

Yes I strongly believe that for the absurdity of SW to really work you always need a regular joe/sarcastic character who can step back and roll their eyes at the whole thing so that the audience doesn't have to. Nowhere is it more evident than the PT which has *no* such character. But in the OT you had Han and in RO there was K-2. Obviously Han filled that role again in TFA but in TLJ it was surprisingly Luke that had all those moments where he got to scoff *with* the audience at the narrative for the most part. Which was surprising and actually cool because I thought it helped keep his character relatable and interesting but it was also at the expense of allowing the new characters to really shine.

Which is why I really thought that Poe and Finn were even upstaged by Del Toro. "Eh, they blow you up today, you blow them up tomorrow" is one of my favorite lines in the whole movie, followed by, "It's just business." "You're wrong!" *shrugs* "Maybe." Such a great character. Poe and Finn had moments here and there but neither narrative was really "about" them enough for them to be anything more than competent supporting characters.

 

[klwn]

I don't remember the specifics, but wasn't Poe originally supposed to die in the TIE fighter crash, and they changed the story to put him back in later on? If that was true, it certainly explains why his presence in TFA was minimal.

Yes, Isaac convinced JJ to keep him alive.

 

[mrdbios]

Yes, Isaac convinced JJ to keep him alive.

I thought I had read that somewhere.

I know several people thought Poe was undercut by Leia and especially Holdo in TLJ, but I liked seeing him grow through the movie. It kinda reminded me of Top Gun, with Maverick acting all "hot shot" and having to grow some by the end.

 

[Niltusk]

Which is why I really thought that Poe and Finn were even upstaged by Del Toro. "Eh, they blow you up today, you blow them up tomorrow" is one of my favorite lines in the whole movie, followed by, "It's just business." "You're wrong!" *shrugs* "Maybe." Such a great character. Poe and Finn had moments here and there but neither narrative was really "about" them enough for them to be anything more than competent supporting characters.

See, its things like this that I think separate people's views on this flick fundamentally. Where you saw him as "awesome", I saw him as a waste of a good actor. I think they were going for a Hondo vibe, who is actually one of my faves from Clone Wars, but I just don't think it pulled off well in the storyline.

 

[Otomofan]

I keep reading and seeing the same complaints get boiled down to "can't stand to see a woman in a position of power" in Star Wars.

Is your ego and masculinity so ****ing fragile?!

I swear to god, maybe if a few of you managed to at least get laid you might not be so ****ing scared of women.

As a father of 2 Daughters, I'm honestly happy that they have strong female role models to look up to and don't have to be told over and over that they are best keeping their mouths shut and looking pretty.

So sorry some of you just can't handle this, welcome to the 21st century, your ego is going to go through a beating for the rest of your lives.

What the hell are you talking about? Where are you seeing that, on reddit? I don't see it here. Women were in charge of the Rebellion in the original trilogy. Do you mean Kathleen Kennedy? I can only speak for myself but I don't like her cause she seems like a cruel ***** who makes bad movies. I don't "fear" her cause she's in charge.