The current state of DC 1/6 collectibles . . . DEAD

[Victοr]

Bad as things are, I'm glad they're tackling the Arkham stuff. I've wanted them since forever, to the point where I and a couple of other folks started an interest thread back in the day (which didn't go anywhere because thos figures would be crazy expensive). I passed on the previous figures because I didn't think they'd ever continue it, but now I'll probably go in. I have no interest in anything Marvel related, until Moon Knight, Doctor Doom and Punisher debut, and they have comic-accurate costumes. Meaning that I'll be buying those figures 5 years from now. The only stuff I like from Star Wars are the Empire and the Sith, and I doubt we'll get Darth Nihilus or whatever. So aside from holding out hope for a 1/6th RotJ Vader, and maybe going back to get a Sideshow Malgus, there's nothing on the horizon. Nothing from the DCEU interests me. I was excited for "The Batman", but after the full cast was unveiled and the set pics were leaked, I feel zero motivation to buy any figures. ATM, I'm just waiting for Tommy Shelby to go up for PO from BigChief. I'm holding out hope for an Arno from DamToys, too. So I am pleasantly surprised to see that Arkham Babs was put up for PO and AK Harley was unveiled. I'm hoping they'll make the main characters, at the very least. Riddler, Red Hood, Catwoman, etc. I NEED a Selina, especially with who they cast for BatPat. I want my pale ravenhead femme fatale, dammit!

At this point, the Arkhamverse being the only thing that interests me, means that, to me, DC is doing better than other licenses HT has. Sure, we're all hoping for a proper Indy, but that's a long ways from coming. Everything in general seems as a bit of a drought. Maybe it's oversaturation, in all forms of pop culture and media. In HT's case, they're so focused on the MCU and SW, making all sorts of random figures that any non-diehard would pass on. A comic accurate Winter Soldier would've tempted me, but the MCU version's design is so bland that I see no reason to get excited. And yet they put out an Infinity War version. They made a Shuri too, or whatever. You've got Ant-Men and Wasps. As someone who never quite liked the MCU, I never felt compelled to buy them. Iron Man and Doctor Strange are in my Top 10 Comic Characters, yet I waited until Endgame to get one fo the former, and I'm still waiting for a proper costume for the latter. Now, the GA buys those figures, which is why HT continues making them. But people like us, who liked the comics first, who have a more diversified palette of things we like, we're not that impressed.

I suppose I do miss the days when figures from all kinds of licenses were being announced. Back in the day you had Raimi Spider-Man, PotC, Dark Knight and other lines coming out. Now it's mainly MCU, with SW as the secondary and whatever scrap for the third place. I read something here that HT's making a Johnny Katana (or whatever Keanu's character from Cyberpunk 2077 is called). They could be making Geralt, Yen and Triss from Witcher, the other major DCPR license, but they'd rather diss out minor MCU and SW characters. Or at least I hypothesize. Like I said, they make whatever sells, but back then they knew to do that while also making soem good stuff. Now it's reuses, reuses, the same stuff over and over. However, with SW now being effectively dead and the MCU wasting all of their good stuff, at least until Phase 5 rolls around in 2 or 3 years, I wonder what they'll do to fill the void. I reckon they'll make an Old Indy and a Yougn Indy remake for the new movie. If PotC 6 goes ahead they'll make another Jack. But it's not enough for so many years. And I doubt Eternals and Shang-Chi will provide material for tons of characters or make gangbusters. They have Doctor Strange 2, which means another Strange, Wanda and maybe the villain. I guess they have some more PS4 Spider-Man variants to put out. Maybe they'll start doing the villains too.

TL;DR I'm glad they're making more Arkham stuff, especially now that there's a pretty big drought coming, and I count that as a win in DC's favor. Here's to hoping they make tons more.

 

[medicomsucks]

DC isn't popular. Batman a boring character. WTF? You didn't count Batman Begins as a good film either so that's just crazy.

Wonder Woman, Aquman and Joker were hugely successful movies. BoP despite under performing will more than make it's money back. MoS compares well to other recent origin movies. The only outright bomb was Justice League.

Actually i did "...1992s batman returns we were getting silly villains. Then it took another 16 years for a good batman film, which was great because they saved the joker for the sequel..." that would be batman begins.

Yes he is a boring character. He is a brooding ptsd vigilante billionaire. That is a boring premise because he can always rely on his money and access to technology to save the day.

 

[Mike86]

And gimmicky, ?silly villains? are the bread and butter of Batman. No character has a more intriguing rogues gallery.

Joker, Catwoman, Penguin, Two-Face, Riddler, Scarecrow, Mr. Freeze, etc.

Hot Toys has tapped into like 5% of what they could do from all the lines they?ve obtained. So many iconic and colorful villains ranging from the 60s show, to the Burton films, to the Schumacher films to the Arkham games that they could have given us in the past 10 years.


But no, instead they instead made these losers,


View attachment 481091View attachment 481092View attachment 481093



Any one of those could have been a Ninja Ra?s Al Ghul or a Frank Gorshin Riddler or an Arkham Mr. Freeze or a Returns Catwoman.

The thing is to your point here, I think the fact that they made these figures and DC fans rejected them are part of the reason we mainly only get safe bets as figures.

They took a chance on some characters and they failed so where is the incentive to make more? I also wouldn’t say those were all unworthy characters to make. Jor-El and Gordon are good characters to have in a collection. I know you’ve made a point in the past about some characters not being toyetic enough, but I was personally happy to get those characters.

Then you also even take something like the Batman Returns releases. A lot of people wanted those so bad, but it was like since they didn’t come out at the right time a lot people kinda took a crap on the release for being too late. I get it too that they didn’t do Penguin and Catwoman, which is unfortunate.

In some ways though I feel like DC fans have dug their own holes. They tend to be more picky it seems like than Marvel fans who will buy almost any character large or minor that Hot Toys churns out. So that’s why there’s way more. Whereas with DC it’s like a lot of the fanbase only wants really specific things, and there aren’t as many successful films to release figures from.

 

[Johnny Utah]

If HT made old and young Indy 2.0 and really well, I would quit the hobby after that.

 

[spindrift]

I agree the pricing on 1/6 is strangling the market...too much variations on MCU figures. I think even the diecast IM sales may be flagging. War Machine IV still available from BBTS and so on...
I sense the sales are slowing due to overproduction and pricing.
DC isn't going to get much really. The 1/4 Joker seems to be a bust and is still available for good prices. I thought that one would be a fast sell out.
I doubt HT will revisit Nolan Batman and certainly not Burton Batman.
All hinges on market now and if the new MCU films catch on.

 

[Victοr]

If HT made old and young Indy 2.0 and really well, I would quit the hobby after that.

I suppose the good thing about this hobby is that you don't really feel the need of completionism as much as with other lines. The majority of collectors have a couple of characters they're interested in and that's it. From the MCU, I've only bought an Iron Man (and he's not even here yet, as it's the Endgame version). I don't feel the need to complete the Avengers. I don't feel the need to get the GotG. Simply because I never cared that much. From SW, I plan on building a Sith Collection slowly, but apart from that, I hardly care. But when I was collecting other toylines, I had to get everything. These days, I buy a few but random stuff but always based on the 10 or so characters I really like. I bought my first Funko Pop simply because it was Doctor Doom. I bought my first ever Marvel Legends because it was Iron Doom. If they ever make a Superior Iron Man figure (which I doubt) I'll buy it too. The Lego '89 Batmobile set is tempting, and I've been wanting to buy the Tron set for a while. But these days I don't get into new lines; I just pick and choose.

With this Scale, I do have a sort of "end goal" in mind. I have a list of characters I'll need or would buy if they ever got made. There are the odd cases where some new IP comes out and you want a figure of it, but such lists are largely "static". For example BCS coming out with Peaky Blinders stuff. I'll buy a Tommy, but I won't get deeper, unless they ever made a Mosley. My list of Grails though is a few comic book characters, some VG ones and a lot of TV/Movie ones, which I don't see HT or any other company making. I doubt I'll ever see a 1/6th Don Draper or Lenny Belardo, for example. Don's an absolute Grail for me, but he'll remain a fantasy. Apart from that, the rest of my Grails range from "plausible" to "never gonna happen". I want a proper Indy as well. I need to go back and buy a Jack Sparrow. I'm still holding out hope for a DX Vader. A Mads Hannibal would be an instant Pre-Order. Like I said, I'd love a Lenny Belardo. Same for Daniel Plainview and a couple of others. Comics wise, I'd instantly buy Hal Jordan and Sinestro. I desperately need a comic accurate Deathstroke. And a good Dredd. Obviously I'd PO a Doctor Doom then and there. A "Bowie" Vertigo Lucifer would be a sure buy. There are a couple of others. A proper, comic/book accurate Conan, for one. Some stuff from Metal Gear. A well-made Base Commander Shepard (and maybe FemShep and Garrus and Miranda and...). A good Master Chief. I have a pretty long list, but it has an end, is what I'm saying.

Still, I've wanted Arkhamverse figures since I played Asylum, so at the very least I am excited about this line. Aside from the Batworld, the only other comic-based property that'd make me go all in would be Green Lantern, but we're still ways off from some GL action. Honestly, it's just that the collecting world has just gotten more "mundane" in general.

I agree the pricing on 1/6 is strangling the market...too much variations on MCU figures.

I'd agree on that too. I guess that you can't ommit characters, but is there really a big market for Falcon merch? We have the dreadful design that is IW Bucky, but we never got the rest of the Burtonverse. HT skips characters all the time, major ones even, and yet they flood the market with tons of useless characters. But the problem, I feel, are the constant costume changes. Why make a character from another IP, when you can just produce another Cap, IM, Thor, etc?

I think even the diecast IM sales may be flagging. War Machine IV still available from BBTS and so on...

Could be. I assume even the die hard Ironfans got fed up.

I sense the sales are slowing due to overproduction and pricing.

Depends. I Remember back in the day the average HT fig went for about 200 or so. I got my Raimi-Man (which ended up being broken and I eventually threw him away) for either 130 or 170 euros. Nowadays Batgirl costs what, 230? It's a pretty big jump. But the armored figures are worse. I've wanted a comic Punisher for a while, and I liked the War Machine version, but 400$ is too much. I gave them for an Endgame Iron Man, but that's because he'll be my only IM and he's been a favourite of mine since I was a kid. I'd shell out 250$ for a Bandana Punisher with lots of extras, but not 400+ for a one-off costume.

DC isn't going to get much really. The 1/4 Joker seems to be a bust and is still available for good prices. I thought that one would be a fast sell out.

I think 1/4th just doesn't sell as good. But they seem to have gone back to Arkham, so that's a good sing to me.

I doubt HT will revisit Nolan Batman and certainly not Burton Batman.

I reckon they'll do an updated Ledger Joker at some point. But if they haven't done Neeson Ras by now, I doubt they ever will.

All hinges on market now and if the new MCU films catch on.

This Phase will be a dissapointment I feel, at least merch wise. Who cares about the Eternals and their generic costumes. People will buy Black Knight and that's it. Black Widow is the same stuff, and Taskmaster is unrecognizable. Doctor Strange 2 will have at least Strange and Wanda, which will sell well enough. Beyond that, they have the X-Men coming, so they will make bank there, but that's still years off.

 

[gmoney5000]

And gimmicky, ?silly villains? are the bread and butter of Batman. No character has a more intriguing rogues gallery.

Joker, Catwoman, Penguin, Two-Face, Riddler, Scarecrow, Mr. Freeze, etc.

Hot Toys has tapped into like 5% of what they could do from all the lines they?ve obtained. So many iconic and colorful villains ranging from the 60s show, to the Burton films, to the Schumacher films to the Arkham games that they could have given us in the past 10 years.


But no, instead they instead made these losers,


View attachment 481091View attachment 481092View attachment 481093



Any one of those could have been a Ninja Ra?s Al Ghul or a Frank Gorshin Riddler or an Arkham Mr. Freeze or a Returns Catwoman.

LOL I know Russell Crowe's figure didn't sell well, but how did Fake Robin, Commish, and Alfred sell?

 

[Johnny Utah]

It's the typical Hot Toys strategy. Make a figure of a great actor.

But from the wrong film.

I'd love to see multiple Hot Toys Gary Oldman Dracula figures, same for Michael Caine from Alfie or Zulu. But nah. Here is Gordon and Alfred. Hot Toys hyped up big plans 3 months ago for their anniversary. What a load of ****.

 

[ironwez20]

DC isnt very popular and their movies have sucked. They may as well make a wonder twins film.

Batman is cool once in a while. In 1989 it had been 23 years since the last batman movie, but even with 1992s batman returns we were getting silly villains. Then it took another 16 years for a good batman film, which was great because they saved the joker for the sequel. You cant make a series of batman films close together because he is a boring character who doesnt evolve. Thats why TDKR was so interesting because he was forced into his 50s so while he nor his villains didnt really evolve, gotham city and the US did.

Batman is a boring character and doesn?t evolve? Wtf are u smoking? Also marvel has stupid villains to.

Let?s not pretend that marvel isn?t just as silly as DC. MCU just did the characters well but a few years ago a man running around with a shield named captain America would be stupid to many people

 

[ironwez20]

And gimmicky, ?silly villains? are the bread and butter of Batman. No character has a more intriguing rogues gallery.

Joker, Catwoman, Penguin, Two-Face, Riddler, Scarecrow, Mr. Freeze, etc.

Hot Toys has tapped into like 5% of what they could do from all the lines they?ve obtained. So many iconic and colorful villains ranging from the 60s show, to the Burton films, to the Schumacher films to the Arkham games that they could have given us in the past 10 years.


But no, instead they instead made these losers,


View attachment 481091View attachment 481092View attachment 481093



Any one of those could have been a Ninja Ra?s Al Ghul or a Frank Gorshin Riddler or an Arkham Mr. Freeze or a Returns Catwoman.

Ew they actually made that crap character from tdkr? Who the hell wants some bland cop? That scene alone made me pretty much hate the movie. If you don?t like robin then don?t dumb him down to some boring cop

 

[sj2106]

The pretend Robin sucked but nothing wrong with making Gordon and Alfred.

I'd love it if HT had ever made the 89 version of Alfred.

 

[princeraph]

i'm very disappointment as well... with "all stars", I was expecting more variety, not just more versions of harley quinn and wonder woman...

 

[hbhf]

DC is popular. The problem is that WB and the people in charge of the movies are idiots

That's really the long and short of it. We've been having this conversation about the supposed Marvel favoritism HT has, but the reality is they're a business, and they're gonna make more Marvel stuff because Marvel's movies are more popular than DC's. That's not the fault of DC as a brand or its characters, it's just the way things are right now.

If MOS, BVS, Suicide Squad and Justice League were all super well received from the outset I'm sure we would've gotten Zod, Katana, Luthor, Cyborg...all those guys. Conversely, aside from some of the more niche Iron Man and Spider-Man repaints, there aren't a lot of HT Marvel figures I would consider any more niche than any of the DC characters people are constantly screaming about not being made. And there are quite a few MCU characters who have yet to be made either (especially villains).

That said, I've liked the recent movies and I have faith The Batman will be good (if for no other reason than I loved Reeves' two Apes movies) so maybe things are looking up. I'm Hot Toys will do something for that. And the Forever versions of Batman and Robin they've shown off look great.

 

[Stryker2011]

Maybe HT would make more DC characters if DC was owned by Disney...

 

[Mr.Tanker]

Maybe HT would make more DC characters if DC was owned by Disney...

Or if the movies were more popular.

 

[Remy]

I sometimes think that maybe Hot Toy's days as the king of 1/6 is numbered.
Back then, when their biggest competition is enterbay or medicom or whoever...there was a time that you just can't even get close to hot toys quality.

Now, there so many 3rd party that pumps out figures, and they're just as good and cheaper than Hot Toys.
If I was Hot Toys, why would I release a Phoenix Joker when there's already at least 5 different Jokers out there already.
They are in the business of making money, and there's so many people already out there that are probably not willing to double dip.

I think back then, as far as being soo late in shipping figures, it was a matter of just being overwhelmed by soo many figures.
Now, I think Hot Toys is playing it safe, focusing only on ones that's sure to make them money.

So, I do think that maybe, they do realize that maybe they wont be at the top too long.
Eventually, they will be like Enterbay, where they only have select figures that are still better, but
most of these third party figure makers are gonna take over.

 

[spindrift]

I sometimes think that maybe Hot Toy's days as the king of 1/6 is numbered.
Back then, when their biggest competition is enterbay or medicom or whoever...there was a time that you just can't even get close to hot toys quality.

Now, there so many 3rd party that pumps out figures, and they're just as good and cheaper than Hot Toys.
If I was Hot Toys, why would I release a Phoenix Joker when there's already at least 5 different Jokers out there already.
They are in the business of making money, and there's so many people already out there that are probably not willing to double dip.

I think back then, as far as being soo late in shipping figures, it was a matter of just being overwhelmed by soo many figures.
Now, I think Hot Toys is playing it safe, focusing only on ones that's sure to make them money.

So, I do think that maybe, they do realize that maybe they wont be at the top too long.
Eventually, they will be like Enterbay, where they only have select figures that are still better, but
most of these third party figure makers are gonna take over.

Agreed- HT in the past couple years are a MCU/SW pumping machine- pumping out safe figures of only top sellers- the rest of the characters are never touched. Quality is superb but have no excitement anymore other than things like Wick or Neo.

 

[Gipetto0812]

I sometimes think that maybe Hot Toy's days as the king of 1/6 is numbered.
Back then, when their biggest competition is enterbay or medicom or whoever...there was a time that you just can't even get close to hot toys quality.

Now, there so many 3rd party that pumps out figures, and they're just as good and cheaper than Hot Toys.
If I was Hot Toys, why would I release a Phoenix Joker when there's already at least 5 different Jokers out there already.
They are in the business of making money, and there's so many people already out there that are probably not willing to double dip.

I think back then, as far as being soo late in shipping figures, it was a matter of just being overwhelmed by soo many figures.
Now, I think Hot Toys is playing it safe, focusing only on ones that's sure to make them money.

So, I do think that maybe, they do realize that maybe they wont be at the top too long.
Eventually, they will be like Enterbay, where they only have select figures that are still better, but
most of these third party figure makers are gonna take over.

Totally agree with you here, Remy. I wouldn't be surprised if HT eventually only makes Marvel/SW/Disney figures similar to how Enterbay eventually went to only making NBA figures.

The thing is, what company has the skills to make top quality DC figures? I mean WB/DC gave Star Ace a try with HP and 300 and while those figures are somewhat decent they aren't HT quality and their 1/8 CW DC figures don't look that great either IMO. Mezco does great work except they're at the 1:12 scale. They're 1:12 89 Keaton, John Wick and others rival what HT has done just at smaller scale. They'd have to start making 1/6 scale and then they'd have a backlog to catch up on. WB barely trusts their own film makers, so having them trust a new company with their licenses sounds even more difficult to imagine unfortunately.

I think Asmus would be great as they tend to take fan wants/critiques into account as well as communicate with fans on progress with their LOTR figures with a fair amount of behind the scenes WIPs of current and future figures. If they could give that same amount of care and attention to detail to DC movie figures I think they could be a real contender. They don't have ALL the license/movies to create figures from like HT does with the ENTIRE Disney line-up. I mean, they did so well on their LOTR figures that their original 4 year contract to produce figures has pretty much turned them into the sole licensee for 1/6 LOTR.

 

[Nine Inch Nails]

If HT made old and young Indy 2.0 and really well, I would quit the hobby after that.

Yea, if I ever got a definitive Conan the barbarian, I?d say I have all that I ever needed.

 

[haytil]

The memory of some people here is too short, which is leading them to mix up cause and effect.

Hot Toys started backing off of DC figures before the DC movie well dried up.

I also think people are forgetting that Marvel and Star Wars being owned by Disney is a huge factor in this, in ways they aren't really considering. Disney puts on a family-friendly face, but they have a long history of shady business practices, up to and including the current day. This isn't just an innocuous factor of "Hot Toys is chasing the money, so they're naturally chasing the hottest properties and ignoring the rest." This is almost certainly a much more nefarious case of Disney twisting Hot Toys' arm, to cancel out their competition and dominate the market.

I urge everyone to read the following article:

https://www.vulture.com/2019/10/disney-is-quietly-placing-classic-fox-movies-into-its-vault.html

There's a lot there about the ****** tactics Disney currently employs and its nasty side effects on our culture, especially since they've exploded in market share thanks to their multiple high profile acquisitions over the past decade.

It's a long article though, so I'll quote the section most relevant to our discussion:

A more convincing theory is that this is just how Disney does business... Last year, Disney claimed 40 percent of North American ticket sales (a number expected to jump to 50 percent once the Fox merger begins to deliver). It is able to demand and receive percentages of ticket sales far beyond those of its rivals, plus entire screens dedicated not just to near-surefire hits from Marvel, Pixar, Lucasfilm, and Disney's animation department, but iffier prospects like the live-action remakes of Pete?s Dragon and Dumbo, A Wrinkle in Time, and nature documentaries like Monkey Kingdom.

...

More than one exhibition professional contacted for this article speculated that Disney's overall goal is to claim as many screens at a theater as possible for its newer titles, even if some of them are packing the house but others are selling just a handful of tickets per show. A former theater manager for a major chain, who asked not to be identified in this piece, says, "It seems short-sighted, you know? But they do it, I think, just to keep a Sony title out, to keep a Universal title out." The Fox freeze out, he speculates, may be an extension of that tactic: Disney considers any screen that?s taken up by an older movie, even one that's owned by Disney, to be a screen that could be showing the new Marvel or Star Wars title instead. Or showing Orangutans 4 to an audience of three.

Emphasis mine.

So if Disney is willing (and able) to use their might to force their theater partners to dedicate screens to unpopular movies - at the expense of other, more popular (and profitable) non-Disney movies - just to achieve further market dominance and edge out their competition....

...then why wouldn't they be willing (and able) to use the exact same tactic on their action figure (and other merchandising) partners?

Massive theater chains are a lot more powerful, wealthy, and influential than Hot Toys is. And if the theater chains are bowing to Disney pressure, at the cost of their own bottom line, then I find it unlikely that Hot Toys would be able or willing to stand up to Disney pressure.