1/6 Hot Toys -TMS044 - The Mandalorian: The Armorer (2021 Toy Fair Exclusive)

[MyenShi]

Great post MyenShi. I wish the Clone Wars was a little easier to get into. The first season has been pretty hard to watch and I find myself either tuning out entirely or skipping episodes. What is a good jumping-on episode to the plot points of the show you are referring to?

Thanks, @KBA.

The Clone Wars can be difficult to get into so I fully understand. If at any point you want to watch the whole series, I like to recommend starting with Season 3 Episode 18 The Citadel and going back to Season 1 if you end up liking the show. Episodes are really hit or miss Seasons 1 and 2. The tone matures very quickly after Season 3.

Since you’re primarily just looking for more context into the state of Mandalore, the easiest way would be to stick to episodes with Bo-Katan in them. She’s a side character for her earliest episodes, but develops into an important figure. It’s helpful to sort of mentally shift your focus to her being the central character.

Here’s a quick rundown of the important characters since you’d be missing out on their introductions:

Duchess Satine Kryze: Bo-Katan’s sister. A pacifist who has tried to turn Mandalore away from its warrior roots to be a pacifist society. Obi-Wan has feelings for her.

Pre Vizsla: Leader of the Death Watch, a splinter group of Mandalorians against the idea of Satine’s pacifism. Voiced by Jon Favreau. Same clan as Paz Vizsla in The Mandalorian, also voiced by Favreau.

Maul and Savage Opress: Maul was resurrected earlier in the series. Savage is a Nightbrother from Dathomir that Maul is close and forms a bond with. Edit: Yes, also biological brothers.

S4E14 in this list is optional, though it is Bo-Katan’s first appearance. It’s mostly a self contained side story.

The Clone Wars
S4E14 - Friend in Need
S5E14 - Eminence
S5E15 - Shades of Reason
S5E16 - The Lawless
S7E9 - Old Friends Not Forgotten
S7E10 - The Phantom Apprentice
S7E11 - Shattered
S7E12 - Victory and Death

[Context: Order 66, the Clone War ends, and the Empire seizes Mandalore by this point. Bo-Katan was made Imperial regent but Palpatine replaces her with Gar Saxon when she will not swear fealty to him.]

Rebels
S4E1&2 - Heroes of Mandalore

[Context: Sabine Wren, a Mandalorian of house Wren, is looking for someone to wield the Darksaber and unite their people. She chooses Bo-Katan. Some time after this episode, she will lose the Darksaber and it will end up in the hands of Moff Gideon in events that are only alluded to.]

 

[sithocan]

Aren't Maul and Savage real brothers?

 

[Jedi_Col]

Aren't Maul and Savage real brothers?

That’s what I always believed. That he was his actual brother. As far as I know, he is his actual brother.
He is told by Mother Talzan that he has a brother. And he says that all his kin has been killed. She says “Not all of them. He lives in exile in the outer rim”.
Maul was born to Mother Talzin and Savage was as well according to Wookiepedia.
Feral is also the actual brother of Maul and Savage

 

[dukefett]

Yeah the reason I was asking because I exclusively collect Hot Toys Star Wars, and the last SW exclusive I ordered at SideShow was Sith Anakin back in 2018, which was unable to apply any discount codes at that time according to their "exclusive figure policy".

I think back then you couldn't even combine a promo code and points like you can now, so they (hopefully) have loosened things up a bit for the code you get from an order.

 

[chrisstbh]

That’s what I always believed. That he was his actual brother. As far as I know, he is his actual brother.
He is told by Mother Talzan that he has a brother. And he says that all his kin has been killed. She says “Not all of them. He lives in exile in the outer rim”.
Maul was born to Mother Talzin and Savage was as well according to Wookiepedia.
Feral is also the actual brother of Maul and Savage

Aren't Maul and Savage real brothers?

Yep, they are biological brothers, both born to Mother Talzin.

 

[Jedi_Col]

Yep, they are biological brothers, both born to Mother Talzin.

Yeah that’s what I thought. I know that it was changed at some point. It used to be that Mauls mother was Kycina (sp?) back in the Plagueis novel, ect. But it’s been this way for awhile now.

Anyway, I wish this would go up on SS already I’m impatient to pre-order

 

[MyenShi]

That’s what I always believed. That he was his actual brother. As far as I know, he is his actual brother.
He is told by Mother Talzan that he has a brother. And he says that all his kin has been killed. She says “Not all of them. He lives in exile in the outer rim”.
Maul was born to Mother Talzin and Savage was as well according to Wookiepedia.
Feral is also the actual brother of Maul and Savage

Yes that is correct. I should’ve worded that better. They are biological brothers, but Savage is someone Maul actually does care about despite his deep-seated anger and resentment.

But I do feel the two of them being siblings and Mother Talzin being their mother is a bit too convenient, even for the Star Wars universe.

 

[chrisstbh]

Yes that is correct. I should’ve worded that better. They are biological brothers, but Savage is someone Maul actually does care about despite his deep-seated anger and resentment.

But I do feel the two of them being siblings and Mother Talzin being their mother is a bit too convenient, even for the Star Wars universe.

There was also Feral, and probably more that we were unaware of. I don't think it's all that convenient, Mother Talzin is extremely powerful as is Maul so it's not that hard to believe that Savage would have had an edge over all of the other Nightbrothers in running.

 

[sithocan]

I was unaware that Mother Talzin was their mother.

 

[MyenShi]

There was also Feral, and probably more that we were unaware of. I don't think it's all that convenient, Mother Talzin is extremely powerful as is Maul so it's not that hard to believe that Savage would have had an edge over all of the other Nightbrothers in running.

I was never a huge fan of the override TCW did of Nightsisters, Dathomir, Zabraks and Ventress’s backstory in general.

The part you point out on its own may not seem as contrived, but it feels a bit convenient (to me, your mileage will vary) that the person Asajj Ventress would go to for help just happens to be the mother (Talzin) of the former apprentice (Maul) of the master (Palpatine) that just commanded his new apprentice (Dooku) to betray her in the first place.

Which then leads to the mother’s other son (Savage) being chosen as the instrument of revenge against her other son’s former master and his new apprentice, which then leads to a series of events where two estranged but reunited biological brothers go on a killing spree that eventually gets the attention of said old master who kills one brother and imprisons the other.

Again, Star Wars is full of examples of convenient small galaxy syndrome, and I like Maul’s arc a lot, but the whole insistence on a biological familial dynamic there instead of perhaps a looser tribal one felt a bit like a stretch to me personally.

 

[MyenShi]

After all, think about it: season 1 Mando was in the covert for like five minutes and a knife fight breaks out over alleged heretical behavior, IIRC.

There’s a bigger picture here and some gaps in lore that seem to be putting these interactions in a particularly negative light.

Paz Vizsla is angry because the Beskar that Din Djarin was paid with were stolen from Mandalore during the Imperial purge of the planet where a lot of Mandalorians died.

He comes from a once important clan and his clan relative very briefly ruled Mandalore. He is frustrated that they have been reduced to hiding in the sewers and takes his frustration wrongly out on Din Djarin. Djarin taking the contract was not heretical. It wasn’t ideal, but he wasn’t going to turn down a chance to get the Beskar back.

Paz Vizsla’s motivations and feelings are clear, and his character used well to help explain the current downtrodden state of Mandalorians.

Bo sees Fett and immediately goes off on him for "disgracefulness" for no reason I can see.

Mandalorians are not aggressive savages, but have a proud martial history as warriors and place heavy importance on honor.

She is angry for multiple very good reasons:

- Boba Fett is not Mandalorian by creed (or birth, technically, which she points out) but is wearing Mandalorian armor despite this.*

- Boba Fett is an infamous bounty hunter who projects the image of a Mandalorian by appearance. Bo-Katan feels there is more to Mandalorians than being bounty hunters, mercenaries, and outcasts. She’s lived the life of an outcast.

- Boba Fett is a clone of Jango, the prime donor of the Clone Army. It’s not necessarily fair to Boba, but she has plenty of reasons to be angry with Jango clones.

- Clone Troopers helped Bo-Katan retake Mandalore but they would have broken their alliance and betrayed her under Palpatine’s orders after Order 66.**

*Boba Fett’s armor did belong to his father who was a Mandalorian foundling, but Boba did not swear an oath or follow the creed like Jango did. Much like Din Djarin being upset that Cobb Vanth was wearing it.

Despite this perceived slight, she does not make a move to take the armor from Boba Fett like Din Djarin tried to do after immediately meeting Vanth. She has greater concerns and objectives.

**Bo-Katan has lingering resentment for Clones. Despite her pride and going against an ancient treaty, she asked The Republic for help in deposing Maul and retaking Mandalore. Ahsoka, Rex (as a Commander), and part of 501st turned 332nd Battallion helped Bo-Katan liberate Mandalore.

This was right before Order 66. So right after their victory, Palpatine flipped a switch and probably used the Clones to betray her and seize Mandalore. His presence and voice are a reminder of one of the worst moments of her life.

 

[MyenShi]

Apologies for taking some lore detours with this thread.

I was just on Toy Anxiety and they have some Camtonos in stock if someone wants one for this figure (or for their Willrow Hood custom) without buying the S1 Beskar Deluxe.

They have 3 in stock as of this post.

https://toyanxiety.com/star-wars-th...hild-deluxe-camtono-electronic-opens-limit-1/

 

[Ramatuelle]

Great post MyenShi. I wish the Clone Wars was a little easier to get into. The first season has been pretty hard to watch and I find myself either tuning out entirely or skipping episodes. What is a good jumping-on episode to the plot points of the show you are referring to?

You did better than I, i could not make it though the first episode. I read the novelization which was okay, but not exactly earthshaking.

CW just seems like this insurmountable ziggurat of information i would like to have, mixed with a lot of stuff of minimal interest. The mere idea exhausts me, so i stroll over to Wookiepedia. Or Youtube. For instance when i wanted to know what happened to Echo, I went there.

Bad Batch is enjoyable but I am not entranced with it in the way i am some other things. But at least one can start at the beginning with that.

 

[matticus]

You did better than I, i could not make it though the first episode. I read the novelization which was okay, but not exactly earthshaking.

CW just seems like this insurmountable ziggurat of information i would like to have, mixed with a lot of stuff of minimal interest. The mere idea exhausts me, so i stroll over to Wookiepedia. Or Youtube. For instance when i wanted to know what happened to Echo, I went there.

Bad Batch is enjoyable but I am not entranced with it in the way i am some other things. But at least one can start at the beginning with that.

I just didn't like Lucas bringing back Maul. Filoni kinda pushed back on it and was told to find a way. I know Lucas realized he effed up and killed Maul too soon. I am not sure why he would want a Sith to be some gang lord. Never felt right. Maul is the ultimate duelist, not a Palpatine power hungry manipulator.

 

[Ramatuelle]

**Bo-Katan has lingering resentment for Clones. Despite her pride and going against an ancient treaty, she asked The Republic for help in deposing Maul and retaking Mandalore. Ahsoka, Rex (as a Commander), and part of 501st turned 332nd Battallion helped Bo-Katan liberate Mandalore.

This was right before Order 66. So right after their victory, Palpatine flipped a switch and probably used the Clones to betray her and seize Mandalore. His presence and voice are a reminder of one of the worst moments of her life.

Interesting. Hmmm.

I generally like the clones a lot and view them as victims, rather than blaming them for anything. This would be offputting though.

 

[Jaycepticon]

I just didn't like Lucas bringing back Maul. Filoni kinda pushed back on it and was told to find a way. I know Lucas realized he effed up and killed Maul too soon. I am not sure why he would want a Sith to be some gang lord. Never felt right. Maul is the ultimate duelist, not a Palpatine power hungry manipulator.

Deep down, I totally agree and felt the exact same way but Maul became my favorite character from TCW/Rebels. He probably has the best character arc from becoming a power hungry manipulator from just being a duelist, like you said.

And when you really think of it, the Sith just want power. When Palpatine checked him, he realized he can never have that and just went for the next best thing where he wouldn’t have to deal facing the Emporer again. And that’s ruling the underworld.


Reading his Visionaries story helped make his acceptance to being alive again a little easier to swallow back then.

 

[Ramatuelle]

I just didn't like Lucas bringing back Maul. Filoni kinda pushed back on it and was told to find a way. I know Lucas realized he effed up and killed Maul too soon. I am not sure why he would want a Sith to be some gang lord. Never felt right. Maul is the ultimate duelist, not a Palpatine power hungry manipulator.

He always struck me as more Palpatine's enforcer; Palpatine would send him here and there to accomplish various objectives, which he did with zeal. So why would the Emperor be cool with Maul running around doing his own crime-consortium thing? No way, he would view Maul as someone he needed to keep handy for close encounters...????? That would have made more sense to me i think.

One of the better SW comics i have read was the arc about Mauls determination to kidnap a Jedi padawan before she could be auctioned off. For the express purpose of killing her.

 

[matticus]

Deep down, I totally agree and felt the exact same way but Maul became my favorite character from TCW/Rebels. He probably has the best character arc from becoming a power hungry manipulator from just being a duelist, like you said.

And when you really think of it, the Sith just want power. When Palpatine checked him, he realized he can never have that and just went for the next best thing where he wouldn’t have to deal facing the Emporer again. And that’s ruling the underworld.


Reading his Visionaries story helped make his acceptance to being alive again a little easier to swallow back then.

I did like his Mando armor. That was pretty cool.

He always struck me as more Palpatine's enforcer; Palpatine would send him here and there to accomplish various objectives, which he did with zeal. So why would the Emperor be cool with Maul running around doing his own crime-consortium thing? No way, he would view Maul as someone he needed to keep handy for close encounters...????? That would have made more sense to me i think.

One of the better SW comics i have read was the arc about Mauls determination to kidnap a Jedi padawan before she could be auctioned off. For the express purpose of killing her.

I guess the Emperor didn't know he was running around in the galaxy?

 

[MyenShi]

Interesting. Hmmm.

I generally like the clones a lot and view them as victims, rather than blaming them for anything. This would be offputting though.

Yes, that is absolutely the case. The Clones are indeed victims who suffer a very tragic fate, forced against their will to turn on people they fought with, respect, and trust.

But the audience has the benefit of knowing this and the truth behind their actions with Order 66, Palpatine, and the inhibitor chips. Most everyone in-universe would not, instead gaining reasons to resent Clones in the aftermath of the war as they consolidated power for Palpatine.

What most average people would see is that the Clones were soldiers for the Republic that quickly became cold and sometimes brutal enforcers for the Empire as now shown in The Bad Batch.

Which is all the sadder knowing they’re being affected and controlled by chip.

 

[SOU7567]

I just didn't like Lucas bringing back Maul. Filoni kinda pushed back on it and was told to find a way. I know Lucas realized he effed up and killed Maul too soon. I am not sure why he would want a Sith to be some gang lord. Never felt right. Maul is the ultimate duelist, not a Palpatine power hungry manipulator.

As someone who watched the show on a weekly basis when I was younger, bringing back Maul was one of the things I loathed (along with early seasons Ahsoka) and thought it would backfire on them badly. The show was beginning to hit its stride in Season 3 and the pretty solid Nightsister arc ended with Mal possibly being alive rubbed me the wrong way. The reason with bringing in Savage was for them to have another Zabrak to play with in-universe, double blade saber, same clan as Maul etc.

Then you see what they did with Maul, especially the superb voice acting by Witmer, and the character development the character always deserved. I was glad to be proven wrong and he became one of my favorite characters.

The only downside of bringing back Maul was Savage being thrown to the side, any additional character growth that character could of gotten was thrown out the window, he got a total of like 2 or 3 lines in his final 2 episodes before Sideous put him out of his misery.

Yes, that is absolutely the case. The Clones are indeed victims who suffer a very tragic fate, forced against their will to turn on people they fought with, respect, and trust.

But the audience has the benefit of knowing this and the truth behind their actions with Order 66, Palpatine, and the inhibitor chips. Most everyone in-universe would not, instead gaining reasons to resent Clones in the aftermath of the war as they consolidated power for Palpatine.

What most average people would see is that the Clones were soldiers for the Republic that quickly became cold and sometimes brutal enforcers for the Empire as now shown in The Bad Batch.

Which is all the sadder knowing they’re being affected and controlled by chip.

Well said, the clones and Anakin are probably my favorite things that Lucas/Filoni did in TCW. Giving each clone, from the grunts to the elites like The Bad Batch, unique personalities, likes/dislikes, haircuts, tattoos etc. was such a great decision and it really wasn't something you could do in the movies as that obviously focused on Anakin's fall. Season 1 Episode 7 Rookies is still one of the best episodes the show has done.

The clones are seen as saviors during the war and now are seen as conquerors in the early days of the Empire, something I hope TBB gets into a bit during its series run.