Batman Films (1966/Burton/Schumacher/MotP)

[thenammagazine]

Re: Batman Films (Pre-Nolan)

Just heard both parts of Kevin Smiths' Faman on Batman commentary track on the 89 Batman. Why does he hate it so much? I know he didn't get along with Burton but damn, at points he talked so much crap about the movie.

You should hear his comments on TDKR, it's like a 3hr podcast worth of hate.

 

[a-dev]

Re: Batman Films (Pre-Nolan)

You should hear his comments on TDKR, it's like a 3hr podcast worth of hate.

https://youtu.be/9OufCgFZCyU?t=7s

 

[batfan08]

Re: Batman Films (Pre-Nolan)

You should hear his comments on TDKR, it's like a 3hr podcast worth of hate.

That's Ralph Garman's influence. It's kind of hilarious because, if you listened to his pre-Garman Fatman on Batmans, and Hollywood Babble-On before Garman weighs in, it's like a TDKR lovefest. That being said, I thoroughly enjoy all of his podcasts. I enjoy his films, too, but not as much as his shows.

 

[Jameson Rook]

Re: Batman Films (Pre-Nolan)

That's Ralph Garman's influence. It's kind of hilarious because, if you listened to his pre-Garman Fatman on Batmans, and Hollywood Babble-On before Garman weighs in, it's like a TDKR lovefest. That being said, I thoroughly enjoy all of his podcasts. I enjoy his films, too, but not as much as his shows.

My sentiments exactly! He loved the movie and did a 180 when Ralph Garman pointed out the flaws. But unlike TDKR, Smiths' hatred of B89 seems to stem from his own personal feelings.

I love Kevin Smith and I enjoy most of his stuff, but I don't get why he hates B89 so much.

 

[Darth Vader]

Re: Batman Films (Pre-Nolan)

I listen to fatman on Batman really like the interviews especially with Grant Morrison, even though all he does is laugh at everything he says.

 

[Russell1982]

Re: Batman Films (Pre-Nolan)

You should hear his comments on TDKR, it's like a 3hr podcast worth of hate.

That's Ralph Garman's influence. It's kind of hilarious because, if you listened to his pre-Garman Fatman on Batmans, and Hollywood Babble-On before Garman weighs in, it's like a TDKR lovefest. That being said, I thoroughly enjoy all of his podcasts. I enjoy his films, too, but not as much as his shows.

I never realised he now hates TDKR, last time I heard him mentioning it he was crying (seriously) over some scenes and loving it. But then he seemed to love Burton's Batman until TDK came along and it seemed to become cool to hate Burton's movie and love TDK. I think Smith is an idiot and goes along with whatever's popular.

That said, I also love his Fatman on Batman podcasts. but purely for the guests. The few times its just been him I haven't bothered with him. Grant Morrison's episodes were amazing, I've listened to them countless times. Plus all the crew of The Animated Series.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

Re: Batman Films (Pre-Nolan)

Because it's "NOT CLOSE TO TEH COMIX" which is why it's good.

It's pretty close actually

 

[a-dev]

Re: Batman Films (Pre-Nolan)

So I've just watched Batman '89 and Batman Returns after getting the HT Batmobile.

I would have to say that I guess I can understand why they aren't to some people's tastes, especially today. They can be enjoyed today but you have to accept and even relish the style, not just the visual style but the....well I guess Nolanites call it 'campiness' that is there. Not as much as the 60s show or quite as much as Batman & Robin but it is there. Joker's thugs all wearing the same identifiable henchmen gear, Penguin's mission briefing to an army of .....penguins, the very idea that Gotham's police couldn't take down a bunch of circus wierdos going around on stilts and unicycles without Batman's help etc etc. As a youngster I did used to view these films as ''realistic'' but obviously they are far from it. That however is their strength. Its a real fantasy world here. You can be cynical and frown upon it or you can immerse yourself in it and enjoy it. I'll choose the latter.

Burton's films and Nolan's films will always be compared but it really is apples and oranges. One person's preference for the latter does not make the former 'crap' nor does it mean the latter is crap if you prefer the former. I would however say this - Batman and Batman Returns, great at what they do. Batman Begins and TDK, great at what they do. TDKR? Not quite as good. Tim Burton didn't get a chance to make his 'not quite so good' Batman film. (well unless you're one of the guys who thinks '89 has aged terribly or that Returns was too 'out there')

 

[Gigan1313]

Re: Batman Films (Pre-Nolan)

When I was a kid, Batman was the best thing ever. I watched it again about 2 years ago and I almost couldn't stand to sit through it. This is yet another movie from my childhood that really doesn't stand the test of time. There are only two Batman films still in existence in my mind...Batman Begins and Dark Knight. DKR was a turd.

 

[Bardoon]

Re: Batman Films (Pre-Nolan)

So I've just watched Batman '89 and Batman Returns after getting the HT Batmobile.

I would have to say that I guess I can understand why they aren't to some people's tastes, especially today. They can be enjoyed today but you have to accept and even relish the style, not just the visual style but the....well I guess Nolanites call it 'campiness' that is there. Not as much as the 60s show or quite as much as Batman & Robin but it is there. Joker's thugs all wearing the same identifiable henchmen gear, Penguin's mission briefing to an army of .....penguins, the very idea that Gotham's police couldn't take down a bunch of circus wierdos going around on stilts and unicycles without Batman's help etc etc. As a youngster I did used to view these films as ''realistic'' but obviously they are far from it. That however is their strength. Its a real fantasy world here. You can be cynical and frown upon it or you can immerse yourself in it and enjoy it. I'll choose the latter.

Burton's films and Nolan's films will always be compared but it really is apples and oranges. One person's preference for the latter does not make the former 'crap' nor does it mean the latter is crap if you prefer the former. I would however say this - Batman and Batman Returns, great at what they do. Batman Begins and TDK, great at what they do. TDKR? Not quite as good. Tim Burton didn't get a chance to make his 'not quite so good' Batman film. (well unless you're one of the guys who thinks '89 has aged terribly or that Returns was too 'out there')

Great post and I agree!

I think it's also easier to relate depending on the "Bat-generation" you are. Being a kid and seeing the Burton movies I was thrilled and excited. It IS a fantasy world and is FUN while keeping a dark overtone...that is Burton's style.

Both have their strengths and weaknesses depending on your viewpoint but as Batman fans I think everyone should consider themselves happy AND lucky to see so many interpretations of this superhero.

 

[a-dev]

Re: Batman Films (Pre-Nolan)

When I was a kid, Batman was the best thing ever. I watched it again about 2 years ago and I almost couldn't stand to sit through it. This is yet another movie from my childhood that really doesn't stand the test of time. There are only two Batman films still in existence in my mind...Batman Begins and Dark Knight. DKR was a turd.

I don't see it as a 'test of time' thing. That implies that in some way the Burton films are now objectively inferior but they are so vastly different to what Nolan later did that comparing them seems silly. The only thing that's changed (or not) with the passage of time is us. The Burton films are no longer to your tastes. Time sees them exactly as they always were, like them or lump them.

 

[Dr.Mirakle32]

Re: Batman Films (Pre-Nolan)

For me, Burton's original Batman is a fascinating character study of two damaged individuals who vent their horrors in opposite directions.

The stylized, stage-bound Gotham Burton and Anton Furst created is a masterpiece of expressionism-meets-art deco, by way of the Warner Bros. gangster film. This only personifies the psychology of Bruce Wayne and the Joker in a way that's not too different from The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari.

The final shooting script may not be as well-structured or interested in realism as the Nolan films, but it isn't meant to be.

Danny Elfman's score is near operatic and tops off this fantastical world, giving it a sound as distinct and hummable as anything by John Williams.

Frankly, the reason I love the original so much is because out of any multimedia adaptation, it is by far the closest to the tone and characterization of Bob Kane and Bill Finger's earliest stories. Michael Keaton is The Bat-Man of 1939, driven by vengeance and unstoppable purpose, and not afraid to kill. He's taken directly from the pulp pages, thrown into rubber armor and committed to celluloid.

Batman Returns on the other hand, is ONLY watchable because of the beautiful atmosphere, visuals and music (the cast isn't too shabby, either.) The actual narrative (or lack thereof) is all over the map and gives its audience little to care about.

Batman is a Batman film directed by Tim Burton; Batman Returns is a Tim Burton film with semblances of Batman characters peppered throughout. I have no problem with Burton taking the material and doing his own thing. He just needs a screenplay that's good enough to make it work.

 

[Frank]

Re: Batman Films (80s/90s)

I just heard Burton will return to the franchise if they let him make it in stop motion. Who am I to judge, his work will never get stale or repetitive!

Johnny Depp will be replacing Chris O'Donnell as Robin. I hear he'll be basing his performance on Sid Vicious!

 

[CelticPredator]

Re: Batman Films (80s/90s)

Sounds better then TDKR.

 

[Frank]

Re: Batman Films (80s/90s)

Yeah, I didn't like Thunder of Days: Knight Rider either.

 

[VintijDroidGutzz]

Re: Batman Films (Pre-Nolan)

I don't see it as a 'test of time' thing. That implies that in some way the Burton films are now objectively inferior but they are so vastly different to what Nolan later did that comparing them seems silly. The only thing that's changed (or not) with the passage of time is us. The Burton films are no longer to your tastes. Time sees them exactly as they always were, like them or lump them.

Very, very.. well said.

 

[RIDDICK]

I love it as long as it's well balanced.

BATMAN was perfect ----------------------------------------------- love
Returns was a typical Burton's freak show --------------------------- meh
Begins and TDK had solid narrative but badly mixed visualization ------ ok
Rises is a puke in every way possible -------------------------------- hate

 

[Khev]

I love switching between Nolan and Burton Batfilms. They each offer great things not found in the other series.

 

[VintijDroidGutzz]

When I see this:

It STILL gives me goosebumps.




When I see this:

I think of this:

 

[Khev]

Moral of the story, you prefer screenshots to candid outtakes?