Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (March 24th, 2016)

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Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

I'm a fan of both too and I just wanna see WB bring their A game. To see a fully realized cinematic Justice League is almost too much to hope for. WB should be learning from Marvel and building on some sort of recognizeable foundation. MOS has too many issues to build off of. Good thing DC has so much going for it in the video game and TV category. We might be looking at another decade before the current team responsible for the most recent films moves on.
From early on, I was open to the idea that DC would start with a fleshed out "universe," and that they could focus on the individual parts later. I definitely think that could be done, and could be done well. BUT, it has to be done smartly and creatively. The way Superman/Batman seems to be transpiring doesn't appear to me to be a genuinely creative decision, but a marketing/business move. And they do seem to be trying to Ape Marvel's success by putting all these characters together. . .to maximize revenue. They're also trying to feed off the fumes of the Nolan films, but I think they need to stick those movies in the vault and forget about them, because Snyder ain't Nolan, and I doubt anyone they brought on could capture that lightning in a bottle again. They should, instead, be trying to establish their own identity, independent of Nolan, independent of what Marvel is doing, and focusing on making good movies. But I'm very skeptical that this is the mentality driving that ship.
 
Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

That's my point I don't see Cap receiving half the love and attention IM got.

Yeah everybody's hyped about CA2 now, but IM got on Batmans level for a while in terms of internet memes, and you oughta know, that a very accurate popularity measure method :lol

With RDJ taking a backseat from the MCU and only appearing in Avengers, it's clear Marvel's looking to Evans to pick up that slack. Winter Soldier looks to do that, especially among fans who were largely disappointed by IM3.

It'll be back on that list once you're caught up on Season 2 of Arrow. They did a fantastic job of hyping it.

Yeah, I doubt it. Smallville burned that bridge a loooooooong time ago. :lol

From early on, I was open to the idea that DC would start with a fleshed out "universe," and that they could focus on the individual parts later. I definitely think that could be done, and could be done well. BUT, it has to be done smartly and creatively. The way Superman/Batman seems to be transpiring doesn't appear to me to be a genuinely creative decision, but a marketing/business move. And they do seem to be trying to Ape Marvel's success by putting all these characters together. . .to maximize revenue. They're also trying to feed off the fumes of the Nolan films, but I think they need to stick those movies in the vault and forget about them, because Snyder ain't Nolan, and I doubt anyone they brought on could capture that lightning in a bottle again. They should, instead, be trying to establish their own identity, independent of Nolan, independent of what Marvel is doing, and focusing on making good movies. But I'm very skeptical that this is the mentality driving that ship.

:lecture:lecture:lecture :exactly: :goodpost:
Which is a ****ing shame and a half given there's plenty of source material to pull from to make a DCU on an MCU level work flawlessly. :(
 
Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

I still don't understand all the "this movie's a giant cash grab" stuff. WE DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT IT'S ABOUT. They've literally not even told us any plot outside of the "elements from TDKR" stuff. We see casting news and we flip out, but it's like, "why?" You can agree or disagree with a casting choice, but how does that indicate that it's a shameless money grab? Thus far, we've seen literally two DC heroes that aren't Superman cast, it's not like they're doing a full blown Justice League.
 
Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

I still don't understand all the "this movie's a giant cash grab" stuff. WE DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT IT'S ABOUT. They've literally not even told us any plot outside of the "elements from TDKR" stuff. We see casting news and we flip out, but it's like, "why?" You can agree or disagree with a casting choice, but how does that indicate that it's a shameless money grab? Thus far, we've seen literally two DC heroes that aren't Superman cast, it's not like they're doing a full blown Justice League.

It's the fact that they're not using single hero films to establish a universe (everybody except for arguably Batman really needs one). Instead, they're shoehorning in hero after hero into BvS and then going straight into a JLA. You're kidding yourself if you think it's anything less than their desire to see an Avengers box office. The sad thing they don't realize is that it took Marvel a measly 4 years to do it. 4 years and a handful of movies (that don't even have to be all that great) to pull it off. But they're too impatient, so we're getting Batman taking over the MoS sequel. :lol
 
Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

It's the fact that they're not using single hero films to establish a universe (everybody except for arguably Batman really needs one). Instead, they're shoehorning in hero after hero into BvS and then going straight into a JLA. You're kidding yourself if you think it's anything less than their desire to see an Avengers box office. The sad thing they don't realize is that it took Marvel a measly 4 years to do it. 4 years and a handful of movies (that don't even have to be all that great) to pull it off. But they're too impatient, so we're getting Batman taking over the MoS sequel. :lol

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Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

With RDJ taking a backseat from the MCU and only appearing in Avengers, it's clear Marvel's looking to Evans to pick up that slack. Winter Soldier looks to do that, especially among fans who were largely disappointed by IM3.

I can see that's what they're aiming at, but I don't see Cap being more popular than IM, in fact, even Loki is still more popular than Cap.

But I digress, it's no secret Bats is DC's poster boy, the fact that the article addresses it doesn't indicate that they're trying to move away from MoS.



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Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

But he really wasn't, that was false popular.

Ticket tracking for Cap 2 is doing very well, the character brings out the patriotism in people, CE is popular with the girls and the men find him down to earth and non douche.

Avatar was big because of Imax 3D technology, not because of established characters.

CE was a great casting choice and a win for Marvel.

WB can only wish that GL had done for them what Cap has done for Marvel.
 
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Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

Initially, this was supposed to be Man of Steel 2. Next thing you know, it becomes Superman vs. Batman. Then we hear Wonder Woman will be making an appearance. Next thing you know, Flash, Nightwing, and others are playing some role. It just smells like a money grab, and a desperate one at that, as if they want to blow their load as soon as possible in an attempt to play catch-up. More evidence? There was no real Justice League talk until the Avengers made a fortune. Avengers makes a billion, and now all of a sudden WB is drooling at the prospect, and fast-tracking an attempt at a new "universe." Add to this the fact that WB has totally missed the mark with everything they've attempted DC-wise over the last several years apart from the Nolan films (in one case--Green Lantern--failing totally in an attempt to do the Iron Man witty playboy character), and it's not hard to develop some skepticism over their abilities and motivations. They don't deserve the benefit of the doubt, and I ain't giving it to them until they prove otherwise.
 
Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

Both Thor and Loki are still more popular with the girls and RDJ more popular overall.


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Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

You're missing Marvel's winning formula.

They're making everyone popular.

Heros and Villains alike, doesn't matter.

Hawkeye was their one hiccup.

Without Batman, WB/DC is the Titanic League. :lol
 
Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

It's the fact that they're not using single hero films to establish a universe (everybody except for arguably Batman really needs one). Instead, they're shoehorning in hero after hero into BvS and then going straight into a JLA. You're kidding yourself if you think it's anything less than their desire to see an Avengers box office. The sad thing they don't realize is that it took Marvel a measly 4 years to do it. 4 years and a handful of movies (that don't even have to be all that great) to pull it off. But they're too impatient, so we're getting Batman taking over the MoS sequel. :lol

So, basically, they're not doing what Marvel did? But, then, Marvel are the only people to have done things that way; they're basically the first people to try that formula, and it worked, but it's only one formula. Everyone is so jaded that they automatically seem to think that the only thing going on at WB is Bugs Bunny sitting in a leather recliner and watching The Avengers while "$" signs flash on his eyeballs. I'm not saying that WB won't screw things up, but what I've been trying to explain for the year since this film was announced is that "different" does not equate to "wrong." These characters are our modern mythology. They've been around for 75 years and they're still going strong; the kids who bought #1's for $.10 at the newsstand are now buying their grandkids toys based on the same characters at Target for Christmas. What I'm getting at here is that these characters have been around longer than their creators could've imagined, and they'll probably be around longer than you or I will be.

The point I'm getting at is that there will be a lot more super hero movies in the coming years, decades, etc. Some will succeed and some will fail, and some will follow the Marvel formula and some won't. Marvel are pioneers for Superhero films, I'll admit to that, but how certain are we that they've literally perfected the Superhero genre? Maybe someday, some other formula will come along, perhaps, from Marvel, themselves, and make these films seen lukewarm, by comparison. For all I know, Batman vs. Superman will bomb harder than Batman and Robin; that is a distinct possibility. However, it's also a possibility that it's both criticially and commercially lauded, and it winds up making a billion and a half dollars, and leading to an even more lucrative Justice League franchise. As I said, we've got Batman and Wonder Woman in the film, and we don't know, for certain, what role the latter will play. We've not read scripts, and, basically, the only things that people are basing their perception of this film on are preconceived notions of its predecessor.

At the end of the day, if this movie is awful, I'll be the first to eat crow, because it'll probably crush my dreams for any sort of an interconnected DCU, if that's the case, but, if it succeeds, I'd hope that the naysayers would do the same, as it'd only be proving that perhaps people shouldn't be so quick to judge. The amount of negativity is staggering, when I look at the whole of the Internet landscape (SSF included), and, from what we know, we might as well be the ignorant, angry villagers chasing down Frankenstein's monster with torches and pitchforks. All I'm saying is to be a little less cynical. I know Man of Steel wasn't everyone's favorite film, but it's not like every single one of Marvel's films has reached Avengers and Iron Man levels of success.
 
Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

batfan, I would rather watch Agents of Shield then have to ever listen to the dialogue again from MOS.

"And the codex formed a race of beings born to specific roles and we traveled out into space to colonize the taxation of the federation donut ships from naboo and darth sidious...Zzz..Zzz..Zzz.....
 
Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

It's the fact that they're not using single hero films to establish a universe (everybody except for arguably Batman really needs one). Instead, they're shoehorning in hero after hero into BvS and then going straight into a JLA. You're kidding yourself if you think it's anything less than their desire to see an Avengers box office. The sad thing they don't realize is that it took Marvel a measly 4 years to do it. 4 years and a handful of movies (that don't even have to be all that great) to pull it off. But they're too impatient, so we're getting Batman taking over the MoS sequel. :lol

:lecture

I couldn't agree more. Marvel earned their Avengers Box Office haul with all of the ground work that built up to that event. WB just wants the Avengers type box office haul without putting in the work to get there. And its not going to work. Anything Batman will do well until they hit Batman and Robin levels again, but I don't think he alone could pull JLA into Avengers territory. MoS was decent, but not great. Its hardly something to build an entire franchise on. BvS will either give them one more foot to rest on or crash them down. Chances are it will do very well even if it sucks. People want to see Batman vs Superman. I think we all (even if secretly) love the idea of Batman (a powerless superhero) kicking Superman's @$$ (arguably the most powered superhero). So the film doing well finically really isn't much of an issue, but if they don't bring a good story and ground work with it, JLA and the whole DC film universe won't be as healthy as Marvel's is and won't be for at least a decade while they restructure for a re-reboot.

BvsS will definitely be the film that blinks and moves. They were originally going to come out in 2015 after all. Its moved before and so it won't have a problem moving again. Marvel had that date reserved for years now, they knew what DC put there, and they still didn't blink. WB is smart enough to know you can't have two blockbusters come out the same weekend. You don't make juggernaut box office numbers with your audience divided between two films. That's why things coming out in the off season like the original Hunger Games or the Lego movie have been doing so well - they are the only game in town. And lets face it, the idea blockbuster movies can only come out in the summer is thing of the past. Cap2 is coming out in April. APRIL! I think is just a few more years we can expect at least one blockbuster movie a month. Summer will always be blockbuster heavy, but it won't be the only the only time we see anything big.
 
Re: Batman vs. Superman (2016)

All I'm saying is to be a little less cynical. I know Man of Steel wasn't everyone's favorite film, but it's not like every single one of Marvel's films has reached Avengers and Iron Man levels of success.
Anticipation or lack thereof is a function of expectations that are earned by the studios. Every Marvel Studios movie has been entertaining to me. None of the WB DC movies since Dark Knight has been (including Jonah Hex). That's a pretty dramatic discrepancy. Why would I be optimistic about a franchise that seems to be catering to the lowest common denominator, seems bereft of heart, humor, good sense, likable characters, and ability to tell a compelling story, and that leaves me sad and depressed every time I see another one of their films? One where they follow up their official first attempt at the franchise reboot (Man of Steel) with another film using the same creative team responsible for ruining the first film in my eyes? This fact suggests that they aren't trying to get better, they are just hoping Superman/Batman is as good as Man of Steel! That's apparently their benchmark for future success! To me, that's really not gonna cut it. It would be irrational for me personally to be hopeful in this situation.

Having said all that, I would LOVE to be proven wrong. I do love DC as much as I do Marvel. Batman is my favorite comic character. But if they keep ******** on these characters and stories, eventually I'm just gonna lose all interest altogether.
 
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