Budget Stark - Why do Hot Toys figures cost more now, than 5 years ago.

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Still waiting on that explanation. I hope its not something like sideshow held the joker back that's why BBTS has it now. No way you could know that. BBTS can have items held in their own warehouse, returned stock, lost stock, or even buy second hand from other sources. Including joe collector.

If it's has something to do with the sideshow logo on the left... That's irreleavent.

Maybe it's something else. But like I said, until you actually explain what your point is I am unsure. I don't read minds, especially thru the internet.
I believe his point for posting that picture was you said that Sideshow only holds back the "exclusives" from retailers, but as we see here, BBTS has the Bank Robber Exclusive in stock. Now what hokietwo probably doesn't know of or understand is that after a certain amount of time Sideshow will make these exclusives available to retailers at wholesale pricing, probably because they're sitting on an excess of overstock. I work in a comic shop and we've been able to get many of the Toy Fairs exclusives at wholesale pricing, including the Bank Robber Joker, Star Spangled Cap, GI Joe Colton, Shadow Predator, and the Iron Man Mk II AU exclusive, but never right when they get released, only after some time has passed.
 
I'm new here, but I would like to add my 2 cents here if it helps.

I reside in an Asian country, and my first figure purchase of this scale and quality is Iron Man MK IV, followed by MK V; and I took a long break from figures collecting due to other priorities. Mainly because I was getting disillusioned with the pricing at that point in time due to importers bringing in figures instead of a distributor. I got back when I saw the pictures of DX 11 Joker and DX 12 Batman, and have never looked back since. In general, I collect figures of importance to me, be it my personal idols or movie heroes. Before that, I was into scale modelling and photography, with the intention of capturing completed figures in their painted, scaled glory.

One of the things most posters didn't talked about is the cost. Not the figures, but the business. Of course most toys/ scale modelling reuse molds, if possible to reduce potential upfront costs, new moldings, etc. In this case, it's usually the figures bodies, hands, legs, connectors etc. That's why sometimes you see uneven scaling of hands and legs. A mold is basically a cast iron in separated in male and female molds, which resin/ plastic is poured into for casting. Usually a master mold cost potentially 10 000 and upwards, and have a limit on its usage before the details start going, at which they have to replace it with another master mold. Of course, there are companies that don't do that, and that's when you start losing details. It's apparent on early days of Hasegawa, Fujimi and others, the later production loses details and merged details due to old molds.

That would explain why in general, Hot Toys have a limited production run, because running another Master Mold for another run is simply not worth the investment, after the initial waves of interests dies off; this is to keep the quality of the mold and of course the value of the figure intact. MAYBE in the early days they reused the mold till death, but this can only get you so far in terms of business sense when your competitors starts catching up and improving.

With the casting of the resins and plastics, you need the colours to bring the figures to life. Of course Hot Toys can go down this route, fix your own kit, just like Bandai, Tamiya, and various other plastics brands are doing, but it would reduce a lot more interests and investments. The skills needed to paint a figure, is down to the sculpter, who will be doing a initial run of headsculpts/ completed models for the factory workers to follow. These are called master kit, which is used as a reference point.

The factory workers would then take references from the master kit and do the rest of the painting, starting with the base colors, followed by layers and layers of skin toning, detailing, eyes, hairs, features (like Christian Bale's mole near the nose) before each undergoes a QC check and sealed up in paint sealant. These are extremely labour intensive work required to produce a life-like scale headsculpt. One thing to note is that these are "mass-produced' so quality MAY take a hit at times, which explains why the prototype seems so much better than the final product at times (Hot Toys Falcon comes to mind)

Let's pause here for a bit and rewind back.

To get to the final painting stage, the main sculptors (or A-Listers, if you prefer) would have to work on creating a sculpt/ figure first. These are referenced from materials provided by the studio, or even actors/actresses themselves. On top of paying the licenses and character's likeness usage. They probably went through a few versions before settling on one agreed by the studio/ actors/ actresses. These requires massive input in timing, coordination, and legal works. (Do you really think that Robert Downey Junior is going to sit in their studio all day waiting for them to perfect his likeness?) Thus the main sculptors have plenty of tasks on hand to get it right the first time or close to it to potentially reduce the amount of ding-dong.

And we come to the main sculptors issues, with all these responsibilities riding on them, they would of course try to get it right, or close to. Their reward is besides the passion and energy derived from completing their masterpiece, is also monetary. These are going to be appropriate to what they are doing. Hot Toys is going to do what they can to retain the talents, and invite new talents to their ensemble to further strengthen their position in this industry. Kinda like Apple vs the rest of the companies out there. I don't want to to assume, but they are probably paid big bucks to avoid being poached by other companies, bringing their specialized skills and trainings (yes, Hot Toys will still need to invest in training these people to further upgrade their skills) along to their rival companies. You need a strong foothold on your talents if you want to be the leader in the industry. Is it justified? Maybe not, but not so long ago we are having Ken-like figures that pass off as premium quality figures, or statues if you are looking for quality.

So, the main sculptors would take quite a chunk of the profits Hot Toys made, not because they deserved it (it's arguable, really) but we as consumers demand them to.

Back to the factory workers. These are not your A-listers, B-listers, but your everyday worker trying to provide a family (they are not really going to hire temporary workers for these kind of production, at least not until the end). Can you imagine sitting at your table doing repeated painting over and over again for 8 hours of your life everyday, smelling like paint and feeling like paint? Company like Hot Toys would pay attention to these group of workers, as they will be their main driving force for the eventual figures produced. If I, as the worker were to think that my career path are quite limited; I would think of leaving the company if the opportunity arises. This is ontop of the fact that most workers need some form of training even if they have a base in painting (heck, I can't hand paint decently a headsculpt yet despite spending almost 6 years on scale modelling hobby, though I'm mostly self-trained) and courses and upgrades classes to attend to continually upgrade their skills, and of course, career progression, hopefully moving towards the A-Listers if the talent is there. A company would be more willing to retain a skilled worker than re-training a new worker since its really a start from the bottom again.

Thus, the factory workers would again take a sizeable chunk of money, because of the need for continuous upgrading and retaining workers.

Then you have the materials, which is pretty much covered in a lot of other posts, but the costs do rises in the years, and a lot of costumes are intricate, which requires careful sourcing and proper templates to maximize the material usage. These are handled by a group of artisans who spend a lot of time on the drawing board making sure the templates are produced in the least amount of steps possible and still easy to be handled by the factory workers. An example, such as doing a pair pants isn't as easy, and I tried to get my mother (who used to be a seamtress) to adjust a pair of figure pants for me and she berated me for giving her such a insane task to fulfill. It's not about scaling down the item and using the same materials. To achieve the scaled look the thread count probably have to be increased to make it look "life-like" or weathered properly for it.

Finally, you have the packing, promotional materials and shipping logistics. Most these are probably outsourced, except for the packing since these still require a certain amount of QC before final packing for sale. All these requires another group of workers handling the calls, negotiations and also enquiry made by various distributors in the world. Doesn't seem a lot but they are probably the crucial factor in the whole chain since thats when the rest of the workforce gets paid once you get money rolling in.

You are free to think otherwise, but I'm just stating what I do see in scale modelling and I find that it applies largely the same to scaled figures industry. Most of us forget that not so long ago we accept barbie like details as the premium format and price in scale figures (initial Enterbay Bruce Lee, Hot Toys soldiers anyone?) It's not a simple click click, whiz bang and they get money rolling into their bank accounts.

Is the price reasonable? I hate to say it, but I would think yea, so long the quality of the figures keep improving and is there. Of course there are times Hot Toys does drop the balls once in a while (Winter Soldier Stealth Cap, MY GOD WHAT ARE THEY THINKING?) but in general the whole of the industry has moved forward because of us demands and their strive for perfection. Even Enterbay has start treating their figures production seriously. Smaller scale companies has also understand the need for better production value and we have seen an increase in quality in general across all ranges. (Storm Toys Mike Tyson, 3A Robocop) All these in the quest to be the next "BIG" company.

My only advice who are bemoaning the prices, don't place an order, no demands no pricing. It's really simple actually, distributors do tend to price their figures more expensive than Hot Toys since they need to make a profit as shipping logistics, license to sell is going to a huge factor for them. I'm not saying drop your support for your favorite company, but make a calculated decision before placing the order.

My only wish is that I can somehow live in Hong Kong and I can get some of the figures at a slightly better price than what I get here locally. But that is really wishful thinking. And it's late in the night over here, and I have a job tomorrow, and I'm not sure whether my points are coherent, I'm sorry if I can't get this any clearer.

TL : DR, Hot Toys priced this figures because they can, if you choose to ignore all the above stated points.

I really enjoyed reading that comment, as I learnt more about the sector and understood further. Thank you for your input, it is much appreciated.
 
I believe his point for posting that picture was you said that Sideshow only holds back the "exclusives" from retailers, but as we see here, BBTS has the Bank Robber Exclusive in stock. Now what hokietwo probably doesn't know of or understand is that after a certain amount of time Sideshow will make these exclusives available to retailers at wholesale pricing, probably because they're sitting on an excess of overstock. I work in a comic shop and we've been able to get many of the Toy Fairs exclusives at wholesale pricing, including the Bank Robber Joker, Star Spangled Cap, GI Joe Colton, Shadow Predator, and the Iron Man Mk II AU exclusive, but never right when they get released, only after some time has passed.

Thank you for clarifying, that was part of my point. The other being an example of playing with the wholesale margins. The joker was an example that when they cannot move figures the retail stores will jump on the opportunity to purchase these knowing those items will pretty much sell and make them (the retailer) a profit, else why purchase the excess from sideshow.

While I agree the pricing offered to the retailers is something I do not know, I am certain Sideshow works around their purchased inventory so they could have PPV on the purchase prices based on their volume agreements for inventory commitments from Hot toys and when it is received. Could be secured volume at one price, or held inventory that HT still has to move like the wolverine and iron patriot. These figures went to pre-order status in the past weeks which would tell me sideshow is buying more replenishments for stock out. Which I am sure sideshow is getting a lower wholesale rate to be able to offer deeper discounts with these latest sales.

It doesn't shock me they allow the overstock to go through at wholesale pricing, but i know sideshow isn't selling the stock off for much less than what the value of the inventory. I am aware Sideshow dumps all figure inventory regardless if it is exclusive or not.
 
I said the only figures sideshow DOES control is the exclusive. It's the only one they can sell to retailers at an increased price. So how is your point any different?

As for your assumptions that sideshow has control over product numbers, IE they can limit the number of figures a retailer gets, or that they can increase the price for a particular figure based on perceived intrest, that's not correct. Which was my point. Hot toys makes those calls. For all distribution sales. Where sideshow acts as a distribution outlet for hot toys. They are exactly like Diamond for comics.

your example of the joker exclusive doesn't illustrate my ignorance in any way. Only that you don't know as much as you think. BBTS can buy direct from sideshow for exclusive the same way you or I can. And charge any price they want. They could also buy from a collector (like you or me) and sell at any price they want.

So to be clear THIS is how it works....(for the usa like you said)

Hot toys announces a figure and opens orders for its distributor network. Hot toys knows in advance what the overall total production run will be.

Hot toys notifys the distribution company's what the max allotment would be and the retail price point as well as the amount for dealers.

Sideshow opens up its order system for the retail network it has deals with. It also opens up its own direct preorder system. A percentage of its allotment, based on past sales and for customer service, is set aside for its own direct sales. The "Msrp" is set by hot toys. Sideshow allows the retailer to order a set number of figures initially and if they want more they get wait listed in case other places don't want any. The price to retail is controlled by hot toys. Sideshow can not hold back orders from an authorized seller and jack the price up. They can not charge more then Msrp during preorder. There is actually a limit to the amount under Msrp they can charge during a set period of time as well.

Sideshow makes money per unit it moves as a distribution company. Hot toys sets all price points, Msrp, except for the sideshow exclusive. Which only sideshow sells direct. But that doesn't mean BBTS or me or John Doe collector can't buy from sideshow and then sell it. It's just like BBTS may have a toys r us exclusive. They got it the same way we would. But when the TRU exclusive came out TRU set the price.

Again, as I said initially, you where not entirely correct. Right basic principles but not exactly how it's done. As a distribution company for hot toys sideshow has no control over the prices charged. Hot toys decides the price point, and the amount of figures. Sideshow just facilitates local distribution.

Edit-I was correcting comments based on sideshows role as distribution company, and any ability it had to set price points for figures, by holding certain products back from retailers or the public to later increase price.

If after the stock has set and they then want to liquidate that's fine. And a completly separate issue to the point and example I intially disputed. I stated the only time a figure is held back from other retailers (as in not offered at normal price point for retail resells) is a sideshow exclusive. Any other exclusive, like a toy fairs exclusive ect hot toys directly says which/who gets it.

Once a figure has been on the market for a predetermined time(by contract) then sideshow can liquidate stock they have left.

Sideshow would be considered a wholesaler in the US. They are a quasi intermediary with retail shops and yet they also make profits from selling as a retailer.

They get to charge end to end retail price off of wholesale costs straight from Hot Toys and charge markups to the retail distributors.

The US distribution model looks like this.....

1) Hot Toys (Supplier) sells to Sideshow (Wholesale)
2) Sideshow (Distributor) sells to BBTS (Retailer)
3) Sideshow (Retailer) sells to Consumer
4) BBTS (Retailer) sells to Consumer
5) eBay/individuals (Secondary Market) sells to Consumer.

Sideshow is in a favorable position, they can control their profits to an extent through the wholesale and retail channels. A hot figure comes through they know will sell then they can hold back from retailers and sell through their website (Hot Rod). A cool selling figure (Bank Robber Joker. V2) comes along, then they have the option to dump it into the retail channel and still make good margins.

This is the section I commented on. And disputed. And I am correct. So how about you clean that
 
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So what's the excuse for hot toys charging an arm and leg for vadar? Especially when sideshow only charges 250 for thiers?
 
I said the only figures sideshow DOES control is the exclusive. It's the only one they can sell to retailers at an increased price. So how is your point any different?

As for your assumptions that sideshow has control over product numbers, IE they can limit the number of figures a retailer gets, or that they can increase the price for a particular figure based on perceived intrest, that's not correct. Which was my point. Hot toys makes those calls. For all distribution sales. Where sideshow acts as a distribution outlet for hot toys. They are exactly like Diamond for comics.

Sideshow absolutely can put a limit on the number of figures retailers are allowed. They will allow an initial order level or a minimum case order to the retailers. If all the volume is not sold out retailers are given opportunity to purchase more. Either during pre-order or at stock delivery figure releases. Sideshow also requires figure purchase minimums, which is why so many local comic stores will not stock HT because it requires too much capital investment.

your example of the joker exclusive doesn't illustrate my ignorance in any way. Only that you don't know as much as you think. BBTS can buy direct from sideshow for exclusive the same way you or I can. And charge any price they want. They could also buy from a collector (like you or me) and sell at any price they want.

So you ignored the guy that works in a toy store above that said they get exclusives for wholesale prices. Read more again, you are stating your opinions and speculating.

So to be clear THIS is how it works....(for the usa like you said)

Hot toys announces a figure and opens orders for its distributor network. Hot toys knows in advance what the overall total production run will be.

Hot toys notifys the distribution company's what the max allotment would be and the retail price point as well as the amount for dealers.

This is partially correct. If other distributors do not fulfill initial order they can have held over stock and offer additional stock to other channel partners.

Sideshow opens up its order system for the retail network it has deals with. It also opens up its own direct preorder system. A percentage of its allotment, based on past sales and for customer service, is set aside for its own direct sales. The "Msrp" is set by hot toys. Sideshow allows the retailer to order a set number of figures initially and if they want more they get wait listed in case other places don't want any. The price to retail is controlled by hot toys. Sideshow can not hold back orders from an authorized seller and jack the price up. They can not charge more then Msrp during preorder. There is actually a limit to the amount under Msrp they can charge during a set period of time as well.

I said nothing about raising prices, you are making that line up. MSRP is only a suggestion, Distributors do not have to abide by those recommendations. They could risk losing distribution privileges if the supplier cares enough, but you have no idea if this is a set amount or more so an implied minimum sideshow should sell and could add on to it for a "List Price" on their website.

Sideshow makes money per unit it moves as a distribution company. Hot toys sets all price points, Msrp, except for the sideshow exclusive. Which only sideshow sells direct. But that doesn't mean BBTS or me or John Doe collector can't buy from sideshow and then sell it. It's just like BBTS may have a toys r us exclusive. They got it the same way we would. But when the TRU exclusive came out TRU set the price.

Again, as I said initially, you where not entirely correct. Right basic principles but not exactly how it's done. As a distribution company for hot toys sideshow has no control over the prices charged. Hot toys decides the price point, and the amount of figures. Sideshow just facilitates local distribution.

Incorrect. It would be a strong bet Sideshow has a wholesale markup on everything they sell. I know they sold some figures like zod and tonto recently lower than the distributor pricing. Do you think Sideshow is taking a loss on those figures charging lower than distributor costs? Nope.


Edit-I was correcting comments based on sideshows role as distribution company, and any ability it had to set price points for figures, by holding certain products back from retailers or the public to later increase price.

If after the stock has set and they then want to liquidate that's fine. And a completly separate issue to the point and example I intially disputed. I stated the only time a figure is held back from other retailers (as in not offered at normal price point for retail resells) is a sideshow exclusive. Any other exclusive, like a toy fairs exclusive ect hot toys directly says which/who gets it.

Once a figure has been on the market for a predetermined time(by contract) then sideshow can liquidate stock they have left.

The rest of this is basic distribution knowledge and speculation on your part. You have no idea what the pricing is, sideshows Mark ups/ pass through charges or what the acquisition costs are. The amount of absolute arrogance of acting like you know is troubling. It's easy to state you know things that no one can get access to disproving outside of a sideshow rep themselves confirming. There is no way Sideshow has a contract on the time they have to discount products. They will most likely have negotiated floor pricing, but there will not be a time element on purchased stock that is just a silly statement.

See comments above.:sleep:sleep:sleep
 
So what's the excuse for hot toys charging an arm and leg for vadar? Especially when sideshow only charges 250 for thiers?

Weren't they produced under different license agreements?


Darklord Dave indicated in the X-Wing Luke thread that Disney renegotiated the Star Wars license -- hence the price increase. (as stated by Lejuan)

In regards to this post by budget stark, while I do agree he brings up valid points in regards to inflation, I have a hard time buying the statement Arnold's likeness and Mark Hammel's likeness is much less than that of say, Robert Downey Jr. Why would the HT John Matrix from Commando be more expensive than the IM2 Tony Stark if this were the case?
 
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I said the only figures sideshow DOES control is the exclusive. It's the only one they can sell to retailers at an increased price. So how is your point any different?

As for your assumptions that sideshow has control over product numbers, IE they can limit the number of figures a retailer gets, or that they can increase the price for a particular figure based on perceived intrest, that's not correct. Which was my point. Hot toys makes those calls. For all distribution sales. Where sideshow acts as a distribution outlet for hot toys. They are exactly like Diamond for comics.

your example of the joker exclusive doesn't illustrate my ignorance in any way. Only that you don't know as much as you think. BBTS can buy direct from sideshow for exclusive the same way you or I can. And charge any price they want. They could also buy from a collector (like you or me) and sell at any price they want.

So to be clear THIS is how it works....(for the usa like you said)

Hot toys announces a figure and opens orders for its distributor network. Hot toys knows in advance what the overall total production run will be.

Hot toys notifys the distribution company's what the max allotment would be and the retail price point as well as the amount for dealers.

Sideshow opens up its order system for the retail network it has deals with. It also opens up its own direct preorder system. A percentage of its allotment, based on past sales and for customer service, is set aside for its own direct sales. The "Msrp" is set by hot toys. Sideshow allows the retailer to order a set number of figures initially and if they want more they get wait listed in case other places don't want any. The price to retail is controlled by hot toys. Sideshow can not hold back orders from an authorized seller and jack the price up. They can not charge more then Msrp during preorder. There is actually a limit to the amount under Msrp they can charge during a set period of time as well.

Sideshow makes money per unit it moves as a distribution company. Hot toys sets all price points, Msrp, except for the sideshow exclusive. Which only sideshow sells direct. But that doesn't mean BBTS or me or John Doe collector can't buy from sideshow and then sell it. It's just like BBTS may have a toys r us exclusive. They got it the same way we would. But when the TRU exclusive came out TRU set the price.

Again, as I said initially, you where not entirely correct. Right basic principles but not exactly how it's done. As a distribution company for hot toys sideshow has no control over the prices charged. Hot toys decides the price point, and the amount of figures. Sideshow just facilitates local distribution.

Edit-I was correcting comments based on sideshows role as distribution company, and any ability it had to set price points for figures, by holding certain products back from retailers or the public to later increase price.

If after the stock has set and they then want to liquidate that's fine. And a completly separate issue to the point and example I intially disputed. I stated the only time a figure is held back from other retailers (as in not offered at normal price point for retail resells) is a sideshow exclusive. Any other exclusive, like a toy fairs exclusive ect hot toys directly says which/who gets it.

Once a figure has been on the market for a predetermined time(by contract) then sideshow can liquidate stock they have left.



This is the section I commented on. And disputed. And I am correct. So how about you clean that

I know that when I enquire about exclusives when talking to retailers in the UK, they say that they can't always get them because Sideshow want to sell as much as they can through their website before allowing retailers to sell them..., they don't say it in a bad way, it's just business as they put it. The only time I find Sideshow to be scumbags regarding business is when they offer retailers a product only to later deny them as they've managed to sell more than they thought they would, thus securing something you want through a retailer is never a guarantee & that sucks because if something gets listed because Sideshow offer to sell it, that should be honoured.
 
I am wondering what will happen in a couple of years when you have the "big 3" franchises by Hot Toys competing against each other. Of course i am refering to Marvel Cinematic Universe, DC Cinematic Universe and Star Wars.

The three usually appeal to the same people who will want to collect them all but be forced to choose because it will cost thousands just to complete one movie and if you have seen the upcoming Marvel and DC slate there are 20 movies coming out in the next 5 years. Add to that Star Wars with new Episode 7-9 collectables not to mention the spin-off movies they are making every other year. That's not even getting into other popular movies. Terminator, Alien, Predator, etc or the Sideshow Marvel and DC lines and so on.

At the moment i am thinking lower per unit sales but more sales overall since there will be more product made. Just think they will be selling Batman Vs Superman, Civil War and Episode 7 figures all at the same time.
 
See comments above.:sleep:sleep:sleep



You didn't directly say they raise the price...but you did say they hold units back to influence profits, or amount they can sell for.

As for your "strong belief" that they buy from hot toys at a price and then sell for a different price...that is an assumption. Ie total effing guess. Please feel free to call sideshow and hot toys, or use your billion dollar title and company to find out. That is NOT how sideshows deal with hot toys works. sideshow gets a fee for volume, and as a perk they get an exclusive sideshow only exclusive figure. They can sell direct to collectors (either the exclusive or regular) for Msrp, which is higher then the wholesale price set by hot toys. But that wholesale price is the same for sideshow as it is for BBTS and Toy anxiety and any other authorized dealer. After a figure is released things change. That's when they go from distributor to retailer. But even then they can't sell hot toys the same way as BBTS or a guy on eBay. They have a very specific contract with hot toys.

As for sideshow not limiting retailers orders...please read the entire statement and I cleared that up a bit. Your correct that they do set limits. But if Hot toys designates a figure as open for retail sideshow can not refuse to sell to an authorized retailor just so they (sideshow) can raise the price and make more money. Not only is that against the distribution agreement it could result in legal action in the USA. And if you want to dispute that feel free to pm me and I'll pass along the appropriate info. No one else gives a care. But because of price fixing and a few other federal statutes a company that acts as a sole distribution company with authorized retailers and a contract with the manufacturer can not inflate prices.

The only thing I intially was disputing from your first post was the bottom section, where you said Sideshow would intentionally hold certain product back so they could make more money. That is an incorrect assumption. If a product is available for retailers as designated by Hot toys sideshow can not refuse an order and then sell it at a higher amount or profit margin. That would void their contract.



After that you attacked me personally because I disagreed with your statement. Like your some saint that can't be wrong. You are even admitting you have zero direct info about how sideshow operates. None. So everything your saying is a guess. Yes, it may be educated based on your personal experience elsewhere, even in a distribution network perhaps. But no direct knowledge. Which makes what your saying about how sideshows operates a what? A, wait for it, guess.

As I said before, feel free to contact sideshow or hot toys. Use that sweet job title to get some actual direct facts. And then, feel free to come back and let us know how wrong you where. I have the utmost confidence in my points. The underlying points. As I have first hand knowledge. Where you, admitted you are basing your assumptions on your outside indirect prior work experience.

Not every company or network works the same. They may share some things, operate on the same basic principles of economics, but they are unique.
 
I really enjoyed reading that comment, as I learnt more about the sector and understood further. Thank you for your input, it is much appreciated.

I just read through what I wrote and some parts seems to be really incoherent, apologies to those who couldn't really understand whats going on. That's what fatigue does to you I guess. Will edit a better run tomorrow.

I'm glad at least someone read it though, just so I don't waste my time explaining things nobody wants to hear. =/
 
Because you don't seem to understand the simple math.
They don't make 2000 units, and then use some as peacemaker and some as red snapper. They make the red snapper figure. Then make starboost. Then falcon. Then fix the molds(which is called tooling when it's done on an industrial scale which includes everything needed to use to make the molds and bits and injection and stamping parts for the machines) to make peacemaker. So even though they are nearly identical figures they are made as complete unique figures. Taking this in mind

If it cost 100,000 thousand dollars or pounds or ants or whatever currency you meant to call it to make the molds and the cost of licensing and raw materials (again molds are called tooling) for red snapper and 100,000 to either replace or fix the molds(tooling) and cost of licensing and raw materials....all before you make a single bloody figure...then to recoup that cost just to break even (not counting covering utility costs and paying employees and rent and taxes and insurance and health care and packaging and artist fees and sculptor fees and inventory storage space and quality control and a dozen other costs to keep the business actually operating let alone make a profit) if you make 1 red snapper you have to charge how much? 100k. If you make 2? 50k each. So say you make 1000 that means each figure costs what? 100(dollars or pounds or ants...what ever currency you choice for the first 100k number was).

So if the operating cost to make each figure is exactly the same, which if they are identical then the cost to produce is the same, and you make less of one (100k\units produced= cost per unit) then you have to charge a higher amount per unit (thus making peacemaker cost more then red snapper) if you produce more of one then the other.

Each figure is a unique item. Each figure has a unique license. Unique approval process. Even if it's a repaint. If you own to 2014 Ford Mustang Gt cars that are exactly the same but different colors can you use the same license plate/number tag on each because they are the same? No. (Not talking about comparing how the cars are produced as ford owns the mustang name and production rights, hot toys does not own iron man, it's a licensing agreement. Just making a point that each item no matter how similar needs a unique license)

This is giving me a headache but never mind.

Firstly as I stated at least twice in previous posts I do understand your example, I just disagree with the premise.

You state they just don't do it the way I stated in my example..end of: that would seem to imply you have some inside knowledge of how Hoy Toys does things at their factories, the life of the tooling, edition sizes etc.

How many figures can you get from the tooling/moulds before the quality becomes unacceptably and repairs are needed? Do you know? Is it 1000, 2000, 10,000?

What was the edition size of Red Snapper 2,3,4 000 you don't know, that is a closely guarded secret. What was the edition size of Peacemaker..you don't know, also a closely guarded secret.

You talk about each figure having a unique licence, a unique approval process, Hot Toys plans years in advance, all those thing will have been done and dusted long before the factory's actually start producing the final figures.

So their planning ahead, they know their making a Red Snapper they know their going to make a Peace maker, they know they are the same. Your suggesting that they fire out Red Snappers until the moulds can't take it any more, how many figures is that? you don't know. Then they go of making other figures while spending a fortune repairing the Red Snapper moulds to make Peacemaker..Why?

Does it not make much more sense knowing your making 2 identical figures to make them at the same time from the same tooling? Both figures will have probably gone through all the approvals/licensing required, because that's what planning is all about. This is where edition size matters and tooling life, (guessing) you tooling lasts for 5000 figures before any deterioration occurs, so you make 4000 Red ones and 1000 orange ones.

This is surely the most cost effective and efficient way of doing things?

Your Mustang example seems...well..strange two idetical Mustangs cost exactly the same to licence and I thought the point you were making with Ironman was that the licencing is different per figure? Also in a moderen factory if you decide you wanted red mustangs instead of black ones I belive it is almost as easy as the push of a a button to chance the color at the paint shop and guess what if you make less red ones than black ones you can probably charge more for the red one even though they are identical in every other way and cost the same to make. (which I think was the point I was trying to make in the first place.)

I am not saying I'm right and your wrong, I am quite willing to accept I could be taking rubbish, I know nothing about the inner workings of Hot Toys but it would appear niether do you , it would just seem like common sense and good practice to do things that way.

Like I have said I'm not in business and everything I've said is guess work but so to is everything you've said, may be you have knowledge of how some factories or companies do business but to use a resent quote I read.

“Not every company or network works the same. They may share some things, operate on the same basic principles of economics, but they are unique. “
 
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