Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier (SPOILERS)
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xtina_slayer
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Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier
she's the reason I've watched this 3x in the theatre
Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier
Nah, the bad guys didn't win. Had Cap failed at that end, then it might have been. What makes Empire so powerful is the fact it doesn't have a happy ending. The bad guys win that one. The heroes are beaten and separated.
TDK is the Empire Strikes Back of Superhero movies. Batman didn't claim the victory, the Joker did. He had several plans to bring Gotham down on some level and in the end one of them succeeded. He took Gotham's white knight and ruined him. Made Batman break his one rule and become an outlaw. Heck, he made him quit for 8 full years. If that isn't a bad guy victory in a super hero movie, I don't know what is.
Nah, the bad guys didn't win. Had Cap failed at that end, then it might have been. What makes Empire so powerful is the fact it doesn't have a happy ending. The bad guys win that one. The heroes are beaten and separated.
TDK is the Empire Strikes Back of Superhero movies. Batman didn't claim the victory, the Joker did. He had several plans to bring Gotham down on some level and in the end one of them succeeded. He took Gotham's white knight and ruined him. Made Batman break his one rule and become an outlaw. Heck, he made him quit for 8 full years. If that isn't a bad guy victory in a super hero movie, I don't know what is.
Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier
The bad guys didn't win in TESB. Vader's entire mission throughout the whole film (turn Luke to the Dark Side) failed. He couldn't even capture him.
When I compare TWS I'm speaking of quality anyway, not plots or who wins/loses.
The bad guys didn't win in TESB. Vader's entire mission throughout the whole film (turn Luke to the Dark Side) failed. He couldn't even capture him.
When I compare TWS I'm speaking of quality anyway, not plots or who wins/loses.
ironwez20
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Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier
Anybody else get really surprised when
Anybody else get really surprised when
Cap says Bucky's name and He all like "who the hell is Bucky". It surprised me becuase I thought he was a mute assassin who pretty much only knew a few words. The way he said it just caught me way off guard. I know he said some form of german on the bridge when he was after widow but still.
Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier
Then saying its the ESB of superhero films isn't the best analogy. While Empire is easily the best Star Wars film, there are plenty of other better films out there. When most people call something the Empire Strikes Back of something, its because its dark, the bad guys have the upper hand, and the heroes are left in a bad position. While I can agree that Vader didn't accomplish his ultimate goal of turning Luke, the good guys certainly didn't win the day either. Its nearly a draw, but I feel with the heroes physically beaten and separated at the end, its a point in the win column for the bad guys.
But the more I think of it, the more I tend to agree with you about this being the ESB, but lets just say of Marvel films.
In any case, I do feel just like Cap1, Cap2 will play the biggest factor in this phase to set up the Avengers film. Thor 2 really did nothing this time around as far as I can tell at this point. IM3 had the potential but I think the ending really didn't set up anything there. Caps 2 definitely sets the stage for a great threat to strike the world now. Who knows if Guardians will play into anything other than possibly setting up Thanos further for Avengers 3.
Then saying its the ESB of superhero films isn't the best analogy. While Empire is easily the best Star Wars film, there are plenty of other better films out there. When most people call something the Empire Strikes Back of something, its because its dark, the bad guys have the upper hand, and the heroes are left in a bad position. While I can agree that Vader didn't accomplish his ultimate goal of turning Luke, the good guys certainly didn't win the day either. Its nearly a draw, but I feel with the heroes physically beaten and separated at the end, its a point in the win column for the bad guys.
But the more I think of it, the more I tend to agree with you about this being the ESB, but lets just say of Marvel films.
I suppose with SHIELD being disbanded and Fury and others going into hiding, it is very much like the ending of Empire. The good guys are definitely in a bad spot right now. While the bad guy's didn't achieve their ultimate goal of world peace (those monsters!) they did at least strike a critical blow to the good guys with taking out SHIELD. Fury is believed dead by most and in hiding. BW's past is known and she's gone underground. Cap and Falcon are on their own (so I hope they address what happened their in AoU if Falcon isn't in it). Plus Winter Soldier is still out there. Its he good or bad? Luke, er, Cap senses there is still good in him. Could Vad... Winter Soldier turn from the dark side? 
In any case, I do feel just like Cap1, Cap2 will play the biggest factor in this phase to set up the Avengers film. Thor 2 really did nothing this time around as far as I can tell at this point. IM3 had the potential but I think the ending really didn't set up anything there. Caps 2 definitely sets the stage for a great threat to strike the world now. Who knows if Guardians will play into anything other than possibly setting up Thanos further for Avengers 3.
Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier
Well says you I guess. It definitely isn't something I'm going to argue. I felt that TWS was darker and better than it's already great predecessor, if you didn't then to each his own.
Ultimate victory for Cap would have assumedly involved reconnecting with his old friend which obviously didn't happen. He didn't even know he dragged him out of the water.
Well says you I guess. It definitely isn't something I'm going to argue. I felt that TWS was darker and better than it's already great predecessor, if you didn't then to each his own.
Ultimate victory for Cap would have assumedly involved reconnecting with his old friend which obviously didn't happen. He didn't even know he dragged him out of the water.
Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier
I can agree with you on both of those counts. Definitely darker and better than the first
I can agree with you on both of those counts. Definitely darker and better than the first
Anzik
Super Freak
Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier
I thought the film was amazing. The more I think of it the more it seems to have topped the Avengers. To those who have found it less so, what do you feel are the weak areas?
I thought the film was amazing. The more I think of it the more it seems to have topped the Avengers. To those who have found it less so, what do you feel are the weak areas?
Deckard
Super Freak
Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier
Saw it, 8/10
Good movie, a lot of you are going overboard with the 11/10 stuff. Best Cap so far and I agree Anzik, the story is definitely better than The Avengers. Some people just won't be able to get over the action in Avengers featuring everyone but that's really the only gimmick going for it imo.
Having Redford in it was really cool, and they nailed Cap's movements but more important, I didn't feel like I was watching a floppy dildo run around for 2 hours. Too bad this guy didn't do The First Avenger.
I still prefer IM1 and maybe 2 but I know I'm in the minorty with 2.
Saw it, 8/10
Good movie, a lot of you are going overboard with the 11/10 stuff. Best Cap so far and I agree Anzik, the story is definitely better than The Avengers. Some people just won't be able to get over the action in Avengers featuring everyone but that's really the only gimmick going for it imo.
Having Redford in it was really cool, and they nailed Cap's movements but more important, I didn't feel like I was watching a floppy dildo run around for 2 hours. Too bad this guy didn't do The First Avenger.
I still prefer IM1 and maybe 2 but I know I'm in the minorty with 2.
Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier
Guess I'm one of those rare movieholics who can not separate a good sequel from original
Night otLD + Dawn otD + Day otD
ANH + ESB
BTTF + BTTF2
Predator + P2
DH + DH2
RotLA + TLC
The Godfather + Part 2
Evil Dead II + AoD
Now it's TFA + TWS
. . .
Guess I'm one of those rare movieholics who can not separate a good sequel from original
Night otLD + Dawn otD + Day otD
ANH + ESB
BTTF + BTTF2
Predator + P2
DH + DH2
RotLA + TLC
The Godfather + Part 2
Evil Dead II + AoD
Now it's TFA + TWS
. . .
pturtle
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Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier
Pretty much sums up how I feel, except for the Iron Man 2 part
I thought it was a solid movie, and much needed after Marvel’s last two films.
Pretty much sums up how I feel, except for the Iron Man 2 part
I thought it was a solid movie, and much needed after Marvel’s last two films.
Niltusk
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Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier
Geez Deckard, IM2...really? theres hotlines for people who watch that.
Seriously though. I think WS is going to cause major problems for "united Marvelverse" long term.
So far, IM has kind of stood alone for most. Now, Avengers is a great movie, but for totally opposite reasons from IronMan. If IM were an awesome cop drama, thenAbvengers was a fun buddy cop movie, but not on the drama level as the cop movie. Now, we have WS, and I think it actually gels with IM better than any other movie as far as the tone, drama, etc... I don't even know where I'm going with this, but with the diverse directors, all the movies have felt as sort of one offs with shared characters, but imo now we have an upper tier forming. I guess I'm rambling and not exactly sure what i want to say, but I think this movie has changed things, good for it, but maybe bad for other Marvel titles that now are going to seem even more outside the target, if that makes any sense. Forget it, I'm confused
Geez Deckard, IM2...really? theres hotlines for people who watch that.
Seriously though. I think WS is going to cause major problems for "united Marvelverse" long term.
So far, IM has kind of stood alone for most. Now, Avengers is a great movie, but for totally opposite reasons from IronMan. If IM were an awesome cop drama, thenAbvengers was a fun buddy cop movie, but not on the drama level as the cop movie. Now, we have WS, and I think it actually gels with IM better than any other movie as far as the tone, drama, etc... I don't even know where I'm going with this, but with the diverse directors, all the movies have felt as sort of one offs with shared characters, but imo now we have an upper tier forming. I guess I'm rambling and not exactly sure what i want to say, but I think this movie has changed things, good for it, but maybe bad for other Marvel titles that now are going to seem even more outside the target, if that makes any sense. Forget it, I'm confused
Deckard
Super Freak
Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier
I think Thor will be taking more of a backseat this phase to Cap and the Guardians. His Dark World solo outing was more of the same and quite forgettable. And Hulk well, he needs a movie already. I don't count Norton's appearance anymore, it simply doesn't work when all the sudden Ruffalo shows up. That really f'd up phase one for me. It feels all disjointed like Katie Holmes all the sudden looking like Maggie Gyllenhaal. You got Morgan Freeman, Michael Caine, Christian Bale, but Katie Holmes was too tough to get back? Same goes here. It kills the illusion big time when you binge watch. Same reason I'm done with all Marvel when they lose RDJ. He's all over Phase 1 and 2, he can't just suddenly be a differant actor in P3 and you expect me to buy it.
I think Thor will be taking more of a backseat this phase to Cap and the Guardians. His Dark World solo outing was more of the same and quite forgettable. And Hulk well, he needs a movie already. I don't count Norton's appearance anymore, it simply doesn't work when all the sudden Ruffalo shows up. That really f'd up phase one for me. It feels all disjointed like Katie Holmes all the sudden looking like Maggie Gyllenhaal. You got Morgan Freeman, Michael Caine, Christian Bale, but Katie Holmes was too tough to get back? Same goes here. It kills the illusion big time when you binge watch. Same reason I'm done with all Marvel when they lose RDJ. He's all over Phase 1 and 2, he can't just suddenly be a differant actor in P3 and you expect me to buy it.
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Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier
Good point. I really hope that when the time comes. They choose to explore new characters instead of recasting existing ones.
Good point. I really hope that when the time comes. They choose to explore new characters instead of recasting existing ones.
Deckard
Super Freak
Re: Captain America 2: The Winter Soldier
Yea, I'd rather the explanation Stark simply retired from the Avengers and is replaced by a new character than see him replaced by a new actor in Phase 3.
Yea, I'd rather the explanation Stark simply retired from the Avengers and is replaced by a new character than see him replaced by a new actor in Phase 3.
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