Chris Howes' Sculptural Creations

[ProgMatinee]

Oh and btw Drizzle I did get an e-mail response to a general inquiry about refunds. He didn't ignore it, but he said that he's trying to figure it out.

Maybe if you're going to act as a liason, you might want to actually announce these types of things.

 

[costumeball]

So you're implying without a written contract that he's allowed to keep an open ended deal forever?

Haven't we already been through this Prog?

If no deadline was given, on what basis to any of us have to impose one on him, especially after he's said that there can BE no specific deadlines?

For those who have orders for the same products being sold on eBay, those few people absolutely have a case to make, but at the same rate, we don't know how many he has actually sold on eBay do we?

But for those people with orders for things that are still WIP, or have yet to be started in some cases I guess, I don't see how you can dream up a deadline out of thin air when none was promised to you, and then go to the authorities for it.

 

[costumeball]

Your so called "help" is nothing more than superficial bull^^^^.

You've proven yourself incapable of having anything resembling a regular discussion in this thread, so I'm done responding to you, no matter how insulting or inflammatory you want to get.

I'm sorry that you want to get so riled up about a topic which you aren't in the least involved with.

 

[costumeball]

Maybe if you're going to act as a liason, you might want to actually announce these types of things.

Sorry, but it was just recently received, and really that's all there is to "announce" anyway. Most people will just claim it's another stall tactic anyway, so until I got anything more specific, I didn't see the point in making a big deal about it.

 

[nash]

Haven't we already been through this Prog?

If no deadline was given, on what basis to any of us have to impose one on him, especially after he's said that there can BE no specific deadlines?

For those who have orders for the same products being sold on eBay, those few people absolutely have a case to make, but at the same rate, we don't know how many he has actually sold on eBay do we?

But for those people with orders for things that are still WIP, or have yet to be started in some cases I guess, I don't see how you can dream up a deadline out of thin air when none was promised to you, and then go to the authorities for it.

Ive always wondered who's more guilty, the criminals or the defense attorneys who get them off the hook with their BS.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Haven't we already been through this Prog?

If no deadline was given, on what basis to any of us have to impose one on him, especially after he's said that there can BE no specific deadlines?

For those who have orders for the same products being sold on eBay, those few people absolutely have a case to make, but at the same rate, we don't know how many he has actually sold on eBay do we?

But for those people with orders for things that are still WIP, or have yet to be started in some cases I guess, I don't see how you can dream up a deadline out of thin air when none was promised to you, and then go to the authorities for it.

I will guarantee you that legally an unspecified date is not legally an excuse to perpetuate a transaction. When no date preexistes, once a buyer has requested a refund it is up to the seller to offer either a specified deadline or return funds. If an agreement cannot be reached on the deadline it can go to arbitration or the seller is forced to refund. After remediation is sought by the customer it is illegal to ignore the customer and pretend that you can continue to operate as if there was never a date set. Guaranteed.

It is a two way street, while I cannot prove Chris Howes didn't meet a deadline, he cannot prove that he did. What can be proven is that funds changed hands and product did not. Advantage customer. At best for Chris Howes in a legal setting a court would set a deadline for us. At worst they could convict him of theft.

 

[icruise]

If no deadline was given, on what basis to any of us have to impose one on him, especially after he's said that there can BE no specific deadlines?

Surely there are some commonsense limitations on this kind of thing, right? Or are we obligated to wait forever with no communication, just because we never set a specific deadline? I've dealt with a LOT of artists over the past couple of years, and I've hardly ever set a concrete "this job must be done by this date" type of deadline. It simply wasn't necessary because I knew that they would put a reasonable effort into getting the job done, and would keep me updated about what was happening. That's the expectation that we had when we went into this. You really think that's unreasonable?

 

[galactiboy]

Ive always wondered who's more guilty, the criminals or the defense attorneys who get them off the hook with their BS.

As has been said ad nauseum here, there were no "official" deadlines from the start... however Chris did mention having a number of things done before January of 2009. That didn't happen, but people were still understanding.

However, we are now 7 months past the soft estimate and on top of that he (not an evil recaster or Russian spammers) has sold heads to eBay customers that should be sent to the people who paid for the commission.

So again, things have happened that many would be willing to understand, forgive or dismiss. But his sand in the head tactics, fishy stories and shady eBay sales all add up to big problems.

 

[thainer]

What difference does it make whether he sold one House head on eBay or one thousand. The fact remains that we have paid for these heads way in advance of whoever has done so on eBay yet we are being ignored in favour of the person who bought it on eBay. If that does not signal his intention to steal from the people who commissioned the House head I don't know what does.

 

[Voorhees27]

You've proven yourself incapable of having anything resembling a regular discussion in this thread, so I'm done responding to you, no matter how insulting or inflammatory you want to get.

I'm sorry that you want to get so riled up about a topic which you aren't in the least involved with.

You are "done" with him because he called you out and made you. You can always count on Nash to tell it the way it is. Ya know, a "contribution" to this site rather than another useless troll.

 

[costumeball]

I will guarantee you that legally an unspecified date is not legally an excuse to perpetuate a transaction. When no date preexistes, once a buyer has requested a refund it is up to the seller to offer either a specified deadline or return funds. If an agreement cannot be reached on the deadline it can go to arbitration or the seller is forced to refund. After remediation is sought by the customer it is illegal to ignore the customer and pretend that you can continue to operate as if there was never a date set. Guaranteed.

Well I won't be so foolish as to even ATTEMPT to claim an understanding of the actual legalities involved.

It just seems out of place to get so serious and litigious (is that the right word?) with something that was done as a friendly fan-to-fan, done on a handshake type of thing.

Maybe I'm sucking up or being naive, whatever you wanna call it, but I'm disheartened by the fact that some people here aren't even TRYING to understand it from Howes POV, and are going straight for the hardline stance. Not everyone, mind you, but enough that it's making the situation much more aggravated that it could be.

The way I see it, those who are demanding refunds under threat of lawsuits, doesn't that diminish the chances that ANY of us will get our heads, what we've all been after in the first place?

 

[ProgMatinee]

assuming you're still just another customer, I was where you are at 3 months ago when I was told and shown a finished item existed. Since then, further time, the ebay sales, and witnessing that I was part of a $10,000 problem made me this way. $10,000! $10,000! $10,000! $10,000! $10,000! $10,000! $10,000! $10,000! $10,000! Maybe thats chump change, IDK, but it seems like a lot of freaking money to me.

 

[Spenser]

To be honest, I have not seen one of these posts. Please share links. Maybe he said them in jest - like you say you posted your comments here in jest.

It takes time, but you get the best quality available anywhere at any price.

Post #343 in this thread.

Essentially, saying that he’s the “best you’re going to get at any price anywhere.” is saying that all other sculptors on the forum are inadequate compared to him. People like Mr. Barlow, Me, and AndyB. Etc… Are just paying around at sculpting and will never produce the quality he does.

You see what I mean about little humility, maybe it would help him out.

Personally I know there is always going to be someone out there who’s better than me, that is what keeps me striving after the goal of bettering myself as a sculptor. Does anyone here really think that Chris is better than Andy? I was quite humbled just looking at pictures of Andy’s John Locke sculpt.

I guess I just don’t understand that kind of person (Chris).

 

[costumeball]

Surely there are some commonsense limitations on this kind of thing, right? Or are we obligated to wait forever with no communication, just because we never set a specific deadline? I've dealt with a LOT of artists over the past couple of years, and I've hardly ever set a concrete "this job must be done by this date" type of deadline. It simply wasn't necessary because I knew that they would put a reasonable effort into getting the job done, and would keep me updated about what was happening. That's the expectation that we had when we went into this. You really think that's unreasonable?

Thanks for keeping things civil, icruise.

And no, that's not unreasonable at all, and until recently there were semi-regular updates.

But it sure seems to me that a lot of people went straight for the jugular. As soon as captdan and a few others started getting people riled up it seems too many went right into paranoid "He's ripping us off! I better get my refund or else!" mode.

All that in a few short months. People love to keep talking about how long ago they paid Howes, but that wasn't went the product was ready, or even started. If you start threatening lawsuits within a two month period, I call that a huge overreaction.

 

[ProgMatinee]

If you start threatening lawsuits within a two month period, I call that a huge overreaction.

Well, I came into this thread thinking my 8 months was not too long, but then saw that other people with 18 month waits were still getting the runaround or basically told "its shipped" when it wasn't, etc. So since others were concerned, I figure better team up because I'd rather be part of the crowd that maybe could get something done.

His attitude since then and his ignoring refund requests has solidified to me that I am not jumping the gun here. If Chris disagrees with people about the wait times, it is prudent to offer a refund or even offer a partial refund so he can retain whatever costs he might have sunk into the project. But you can't flat out ignore the requests and expect not to be labeled a thief.

 

[thainer]

I hate to keep going back to the House head but it is the one I am involved in and the one where the most egregious abuses are taking place. What part of "he is selling them on eBay and not sending them to the people who commissioned the sculpt" do you not understand? It has nothing to do with captdan or others riling people up. It has to do with the fact that these heads are completed, they are ready to ship, and they are not being sent to the first people who paid for them. That is what is riling me up. Not a few people who are more upset than I am venting their frustrations. The fact that the head is done and he won't send it to the people who paid for it.

 

[ProgMatinee]

costumeball has already said that since it wasn't explicitly in the contract that Chris can keep doing it.

I can't remember if the right ear was explicitly in the contract either, so I'm hoping thats part of the sculpt and I don't have to pay seperately.

I also can't remember if I made sure we told him not to throw it into a bbq pit prior to shipping either.

Damn, there are a lot of things not covered in the agreement.

 

[galactiboy]

It just seems out of place to get so serious and litigious (is that the right word?) with something that was done as a friendly fan-to-fan, done on a handshake type of thing.

This really isn't a friendly fan-to-fan, handshake deal. He began taking on commissioned works and accepted payment for them. He was not making these figures for his own collection and then selling us copies when he got around to it. He took payment and even solicited his services as a sculptor.

But again, even with this "business" arrangement, its not the delay or problems he's having... its his poor attitude and shady practices that are getting people upset. In the time I've been a member here I've never seen so much disregard for customers as he has shown.

 

[ProgMatinee]

I'm going to say that I take partial credit and blame.

On one hand, I take credit for openly complaining on a few occassions when new Chris Howes commission threads were created here. I may have helped in some very small way in preventing others from being ripped off.

On the other hand, I take blame by doing that, Chris' new commissions and new "marks" stopped which meant that he had to start his lousy ebay scheme and selling our heads in order to make money.

 

[Anzik]

On Dec 15 2008 I paid $45 for 2 House heads.
on Feb 9 2009 I paid $25 for River and on April 1 2009 I paid $25 for David.
($95 for you folks using the new math.)