Collectibes - "Take it or leave it." or "Made-to-Order."

[tylerdurden]

very interesting debate here. i can see both sides of the situation.

but to me, it all boils down to this:
i'd rather buy from a company that listens to my feedback and acts on it, instead of one that tells me "take it or leave it". i hate companies like that, and those who practice that sort of arrogance/indifference deserve to fail.

BUT, for the company that listens, it should also exercise intelligent discretion regarding what to act on and what not to. if you know your business and your products well enough, you will certainly know how to differentiate between petty nitpicking and genuine, pertinent issues.

any company that can balance it out like this will enjoy long-term success, and the customer base as a whole will certainly benefit.

 

[Darkseed]

For a long time that's how it's been, and I imagine because of the nature of people all having contrasting opinions on things, it will always be that way, but I do wonder, will there be a point where the pressure is so high from the consumer that the manufacturer eventually feels a need to cave.

I just think for many of us, we've been in this hobby a long time and can see the evolution of the collector mindset and I thought it would be an interesting thing to discuss.

I can understand both sides. The rising cost people want to get their money's worth (again individual preference). The flip side is the more we expect and demand the higher and higher the cost will rise to meet that demand. A double edged sword, if you will.

I have an expensive toy hobby which I have a dedicated monthly budget. I want a quality figure with accessories for my money but the consistent demand for this and that will eventually drive me out of collecting. I enjoy my collection and I am blessed to be able to afford my hobby. However, I will have a difficult time justifying (to myself) dropping 200+ for a toy when that becomes the average price. I will do a figure here or there at that price but not every single figure. I tend to want to keep prices reasonable therefore, I will take what I can get.

 

[MaulFan]

I can understand both sides. The rising cost people want to get their money's worth (again individual preference). The flip side is the more we expect and demand the higher and higher the cost will rise to meet that demand. A double edged sword, if you will.

An interesting thing that comes up in that is the notion of people wanting their money's worth and I think that's something to add to this discussion.

Why can't people just pass on it. It seems like there's an almost unhealthy feeling of "have to" own so many things and that's spawning this demand for certain things done. Sure if you don't like it and pass it probably means you never have a piece like it, but is that really the end of the world? I love collecting, it's a big part of my life, I have pieces I dream of, but there are things I pass on easily enough, despite how much I may have wanted it to turn out as something a little different, I just say fine, I won't get it, but I really get this vibe like collecting is almost becoming as addictive for people as drugs and when something is hinted at, they develop this need and they can't just let it be when it's finally offered, they want it so bad, but it has to be a certain way, the push for changes to be made.

People always say, hey, they're just toys or whatever, not worth all the emotion and all, which is true, but it seems like more and more people can't let go, if something they really want is done but not to their tastes, intstead of just saying fine, I don't like it I won't get it, it's like I've been waiting for this piece and this is what you offer me, screw this, give me what I want this thing to be.

It's one thing to expect a better quality of materials at some of the rising costs, you don't want to get a a shirt of $5 quality that you got with $50 figures to be the same on a figure you're paying $150 for, it doesn't feel right, but some of these things like every piece having a photo-realistic look, whatever happened to variety, why can't some things look more creative, and why is it hard to just say fine, I won't get it when it's not done to your liking, why the need to strongly push for it to be made to your liking.

 

[Commtech]

very interesting debate here. i can see both sides of the situation.

but to me, it all boils down to this:
i'd rather buy from a company that listens to my feedback and acts on it, instead of one that tells me "take it or leave it". i hate companies like that, and those who practice that sort of arrogance/indifference deserve to fail.

.

I feel exactly the same.

 

[Darkseed]

Hey Maul, which thread got you thinking about this topic: Deluxe Joker, Deluxe Batman or any SW thread

I agree. I expect certain thing for $150 figure versus $50 figure. Everyone has different expectation levels what they will or will not accept for $150+ figure.

I expect the sculpt, paint apps and overall appearance to be superior. Everything else is on a different level of acceptance IMO. People commenting on my collection do not notice the Joker's missing a coat tail or suggest that his shirt and tie are wrong. They are amazed how realistic the figures appear. Give me an accurrate character sculpt (Jackman, Bale, Ledger, Downey etc.) and I will take three coat tails versus four, or the wrong pattern for shirt and tie etc.

I have my limits mind you. Batman's cowl appears to be from the 1960's A. West series versus the recent C. Bale movies then I would take issue. Pointing out the nose is a tad too wide or ears just a bit to long is waaaay to much detail (for me). Someone else it might drive batty

 

[DinoLast]

When I point out areas I would like to see changed, it's merely a matter up for debate.
I think you must be deluded if you think Sideshow could overhaul a PF sculpt.
The Rambo PF is what is, and it has it's fans and it has critics. I'm the latter, but I would never expect the things I don't like about it to be changed because it's just my opinion.
Asking for things like making the colour of Indy's holster on the 1/6th KOTCS figure black is not too much to ask, and that's something Sideshow should listen to

 

[MaulFan]

Hey Maul, which thread got you thinking about this topic: Deluxe Joker, Deluxe Batman or any SW thread

It's been a growing thing around here, it's gotten to a point where anytime a new product debuts, I'm expecting the disection of it to begin, but it's not done in a way of simple banter like, well, "I'd have liked it if they did this and that," it's increasingly having the tone of "You need to do this and that so I can get this piece, I'm not buying it unless you do," but rather than just saying I'm not buying it, it seems like people don't want to accept anything less than their desires for a piece being met, and it's alarming.

I join in the diessection, guilty, but for the fun of exploring the pieces. I've been a student of art for like 10 years, critiquing pieces is common place, even stuff I liked I was always pushed to explore alternate ways that you'd handle them etc, but I didn't tell the artist it needed to be done my way. Accurracy things I support passing along to companies when the sorts of things your looking for fall within what they aim to do with their product, once you get into the realm of personal preference, I say leave it to discussion points and let the piece itself be.

 

[MaulFan]

Asking for things like making the colour of Indy's holster on the 1/6th KOTCS figure black is not too much to ask, and that's something Sideshow should listen to

But that's something that can be concretely proven and leaves little room for personal opinion, you find a photo, there it is, it is a certain color. Though it does get hairy when you get into situations where actual props and screen appearance don't mesh and then you have those wanting prop accurrate and those wanting screen appearance, and sometimes there are multiple screen appearances.

 

[pixletwin]

"Take it or leave it." = GG
"Made-to-Order." = Sideshow

That how I have always felt.

 

[DinoLast]

But that's something that can be concretely proven and leaves little room for personal opinion, you find a photo, there it is, it is a certain color. Though it does get hairy when you get into situations where actual props and screen appearance don't mesh and then you have those wanting prop accurrate and those wanting screen appearance, and sometimes there are multiple screen appearances.

They made the PF's Black

 

[ProgMatinee]

as much as it might annoy some people or even annoy SSC at times, trust me, SSC would MUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCH MUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCHMUCH (is that enough?) rather have a potential customer ask for it to be corrected than simply pass on all their products without a word of why.

 

[MaulFan]

Of course, that's why they participate hear, to read and get the feedback. It's just a matter of which feedbacks will they actually act on and which they'll just consider for future projects.

 

[LOTRFan]

... "I'd have liked it if they did this and that," it's increasingly having the tone of "You need to do this and that so I can get this piece, I'm not buying it unless you do," but rather than just saying I'm not buying it, it seems like people don't want to accept anything less than their desires for a piece being met, and it's alarming.

I don't think it is alarming at all, I find it preferrable (and I certainly would if I was a maker/distributer) to know WHY someone isn't purchasing an item that I spent so much time and energy on. Of course it can go to the extreme, and certain posts are downright hostile; but there isn't anything alarming about saying "I'm not purchasing this item unless this is changed." Someone earlier mentioned constructive comments like this a free R&D.

 

[MaulFan]

I don't think it is alarming at all, I find it preferrable (and I certainly would if I was a maker/distributer) to know WHY someone isn't purchasing an item that I spent so much time and energy on. Of course it can go to the extreme, and certain posts are downright hostile; but there isn't anything alarming about saying "I'm not purchasing this item unless this is changed." Someone earlier mentioned constructive comments like this a free R&D.

What's alarming to me is that some people seem so addicted to having a piece, instead of commenting like, I would have bought if you'd done this and that, they seem to go extreme and sound like, you better do this for me. To me, it's alarming if someone feels so badly about having a collectible that rather than pass on someone's effort because it wasn't just what they wanted, they would devote themselves to having it made to be exactly what they want it to be. I would just pass and hire someone to do it exactly the way you want if it was that important. I love collecting, but I don't think I've ever been so clung to the idea of getting a piece that if someone made one and it wasn't exactly what I wanted, I clung to the idea of getting it and gave my all to have it changed just the way I want it to be, and if I do, I hope someone smacks me in the head because that seems like the line between a healthy hobby and an unhealthy obsession.

 

[darkraiderss]

We'll probably never get a product that satisfies every collector, but considering the higher and higher price points I think Sideshow should be open to make changes if a large number of us demand it. They want to sell as much product as possible so why put out a statue or figure that has a flaw that makes the majority of us pass on it? I think they should show us the product in earlier stages to elicit feedback instead of the typical first look of the finished prototype that they rarely alter for the collector.

I have liked the sneek peaks they are starting to do now and this could be a step in the right direction if they give us more looks and a chance to comment on products before they reach the point of no return in their development.

LT

 

[The Ween]

If we didn't have threads about what we like and dislike about figures, well, we wouldn't have much of a collectibles board now would we?

I think we all want the perfect figure, but perfection is in the eye of the beholder. For example, I'm not lovin' the HT Wolverine sculpt. It's Wolverine, but it's not Hugh. Most people don't share that opinion. I still voiced my opinion and hope that HT would improve on it enough to convince me it looks like Hugh. I'm doubting that though. I'm still getting the figure because it's Wolverine. In this case, I'm a nit-picker that's going to settle, but the majority of the time I either buy it or I don't without the disection.

I feel there's nothing wrong with pointing out what is perceived as flaws. Maybe it will be changed, who really knows? If you cancel something from Sideshow, they'll ask you why you are canceling and one of the options is because of workmanship (can't remember how it's worded exactly), so IMO, they do care about such things.

 

[Darkseed]

For example, I'm not lovin' the HT Wolverine sculpt. It's Wolverine, but it's not Hugh. Most people don't share that opinion.

Hi Ween. I share your opinion of XMO:Wolverine sculpt and I too am vocal with my unhappiness.

I tend to agree with Maulfan. It is expected with the high price for these figures people have certain expectations but I agree sometimes it goes too far. Collector's complain about the smallest inaccuracies or multiple variations as if someone is forcing them to buy a figure. It is all individual choice.

As stated, I am not a fan of the current Wolverine sculpt. I voice my displeasure but if that is the production piece I have a choice; take it or leave it.

I mentioned earlier about a double edged sword. HT expends the cash to fix everything collector's complain about in each figure we pay in the end with the rising cost per figure. A balance needs to be reached where collector's are satisfied (not necessarily happy) while HT produces a quality product at a decent price. It will be difficult to reach agreement since each collector has different expectations and acceptance standards. Until such time fussing will continue and the prices will continue to rise.

Gotta love the world of 1/6th scale collecting and HT give me my Jackman Wolverine

 

[MaulFan]

I'll take another stab at making my main point.

I don't care one bit if people are vocally dissatisfied with products, you want to talk about it, go right ahead.

What concerns is the trend I'm seeing where it's transisting from complaing about dissatisfactions to taking serious actions to get those corrections implemented.

Perhaps, it will never come to be that certain feedback is acted upon, but I wonder because of how much more prevalent it's becoming that people have their visions of what items should be and the second they see the manufacturer's attempt, if it doesn't meet their vision they're ready to start marking up photos and pushing for certain things to happen.

An example, the Hot Toys ALIEN figure saw a number of photographic manipulations that people were looking to send to Hot Toys, some had more favor than others. It really concerned me that some of the suggestion images would get submitted and HT might actually act upon them because some of the suggestions were more a personal taste, I didn't agree with them, and I preferred the figure as is to the changes.

I feel that some control over the final product should always be up to the manufacturer, but as more and more people seem ready to press on them their own ideas, I worry a day may come when manufacturers feel too much pressure and give in.

Now, I mean this regarding a piece where a finished prototype is presented and you're allowed to place an order because at that point, those who like a piece are allowed to enjoy what they see and get invested in the idea of owning, at which time, the points of view of a few who feel the need to be very vocal about it being different, should not have the power to alter certain things about the piece.

Another example of what I mean, I'll use the Wolverine figure. If someone emails HT and states or shows photos regarding the likeness of Hugh Jackman, that's one thing, it's supposed to look like Hugh Jackman so suggesting to them that it needs more work to accomplish this, fine. Someone who decides the emotional expression on the portrait isn't what they wanted it to be and suggests something different, I'm not fine with. If I've been given an option I like and the company has committed to providing it to me, which would be preordering the product, then some other collector shouldn't have the power to take that away from me.

Successful example, Marcus Wright, people said it should look more like Sam Worthington, HT updated the sculpt, it does look more like him, but the expression is still the same as it was all along, so you just got a better product, not a different product.

That's what worries me, people getting changes that don't make for improved product (accurracy, better materials), it's the ones who may have differing personal tastes where if the manufacturer acts on them, the product will actually be something different than before.

 

[Bannister]

I'll take another stab at making my main point.

I don't care one bit if people are vocally dissatisfied with products, you want to talk about it, go right ahead.

What concerns is the trend I'm seeing where it's transisting from complaing about dissatisfactions to taking serious actions to get those corrections implemented.

Perhaps, it will never come to be that certain feedback is acted upon, but I wonder because of how much more prevalent it's becoming that people have their visions of what items should be and the second they see the manufacturer's attempt, if it doesn't meet their vision they're ready to start marking up photos and pushing for certain things to happen.

An example, the Hot Toys ALIEN figure saw a number of photographic manipulations that people were looking to send to Hot Toys, some had more favor than others. It really concerned me that some of the suggestion images would get submitted and HT might actually act upon them because some of the suggestions were more a personal taste, I didn't agree with them, and I preferred the figure as is to the changes.

I feel that some control over the final product should always be up to the manufacturer, but as more and more people seem ready to press on them their own ideas, I worry a day may come when manufacturers feel too much pressure and give in.

Now, I mean this regarding a piece where a finished prototype is presented and you're allowed to place an order because at that point, those who like a piece are allowed to enjoy what they see and get invested in the idea of owning, at which time, the points of view of a few who feel the need to be very vocal about it being different, should not have the power to alter certain things about the piece.

Another example of what I mean, I'll use the Wolverine figure. If someone emails HT and states or shows photos regarding the likeness of Hugh Jackman, that's one thing, it's supposed to look like Hugh Jackman so suggesting to them that it needs more work to accomplish this, fine. Someone who decides the emotional expression on the portrait isn't what they wanted it to be and suggests something different, I'm not fine with. If I've been given an option I like and the company has committed to providing it to me, which would be preordering the product, then some other collector shouldn't have the power to take that away from me.

Successful example, Marcus Wright, people said it should look more like Sam Worthington, HT updated the sculpt, it does look more like him, but the expression is still the same as it was all along, so you just got a better product, not a different product.

That's what worries me, people getting changes that don't make for improved product (accurracy, better materials), it's the ones who may have differing personal tastes where if the manufacturer acts on them, the product will actually be something different than before.

Blah blah blah "Keep Rambo retarded", blah blah blah.

 

[Darkseed]

Complaining / recommending (whatever side of the fence your on) will always be part of the hobby. The ultimate decision where the hobby goes rest with each company and their vision. Our greatest power rest within our wallets not so much with our voice. A company will listen to a degree and make good revisions (Connor & Wright) while leaving others status quo (Wolverine)

IMO it isn't cost effective to make large scale changes (new sculpt) on a regular basis to a product after the proto type is revealed. I cannot foresee this happening unless they go to custom orders and charge out the ying - yang. I'll stick to the "mass produced" figures thank you.