Dear Dave... About this one part in the Customs Commerce rules -

[ones1customs]

Money for work is an incentive - if you have some of the money up front, you have less of an incentive I've found. And if you have all of the money up front you have no incentive at all.

At least for some people that's how it works. If I was sitting on someone's money then I'd be more incentivized, but we have seen from many, many incidents on this forum - that is not the case for most people.

Thats true believe me I know but I think we are being a little hard on the customizer, customers can be crazy when the see something they want as well Ive been both the customizer and customer so I understand both views I would be most likely be more impatient if with a artist if I didnt understand the amount of work that goes into each piece being created.

 

[Mr. EcKo]

I have been sitting back and watching this conversation .

I aggree with ONEsCustoms on the fact that in order to satisfy all his customers , money must be spent . Time and materials add up , me being in the construction business , i know 1st hand about time and materials , If i was approached by a home owner and they wanted me to build them a Deck off the back of their house , I would give them an estimate("price of piece being offered , ie Head sculpt) of what the job will cost / time and materials are usually what General Contractors use in their business' . The home owner (Freak buying head sculpt or figure) would have to put a deposit down in order to pay for the materials used for the job , and also the time the GC will be there for that period of time . thanks once the job is finished , the GC gets the rest of the payment once the JOB IS COMPLETE .

I was approached to mass produce my Dioramas , but haven't decided to do so as of yet due to the fact i would have to supply all the materials funded out of my own pocket to get the project started . Materials get expensive ( like ONE said , resin is expensive)

I would say if there is an INTEREST thread , start there and if you achieve the number of spots you want then you take a deposit (Like Kato Work does & ONE)

Then once the job is complete and ready to be shipped out , then the remaining money should be paid ,

Thats just my 2 cents in this Thread

 

[ProgMatinee]

There's a big difference in making something for 1 person and making something for 10 or 20.

If you had 1 guy commissioning you to make a headsculpt of himself, obviously that item is not sellable to anyone else. I would expect a deposit.

If you're making something 10-20 people want, it is not reasonable, IMO to ask for $10-$20 from all of them as a deposit.

1. if demand is that high, then you probably won't have hard time finding a replacement customer
2. $200 for doing nothing except declaring your shop "open" is more attractive than actually finishing a product. New project starts will pop up faster than project finishes. It promotes bad habits.
3. Customers simply shouldn't be a business's creditor. it promotes animosity between the seller and buyer when there are delays. I think its a very fine line between using a customer's deposit to buy valid materials needed for the project and using it for personal stuff, as we have all learned here.

 

[intothevoid]

Well - seems pretty clear that are two distinct camps in this debate. The key is to find the right balance in the rules - I still think 30 days is not the right balance.

 

[Darklord Dave]

Sorry, the guideline will remain - I can see both sides, but people on here have been burnt too many times. There are at least 3 customizers right now that are struggling to deliver and/or return money to people because they got inundated with work.

Of course, it's your money - if you want to not follow the guidelines - feel free. But don't come crying to me when it's 18 months later and you have nothing to show for it but an email or PM every 5 weeks.

 

[CREG Customs]

I was just raising the point that I think it would be good to allow a deposit as a purchase promise from buyers to customizers that depend on the sales.

No one was asking for all money up front and no one can force anybody to pay a dime to a pre-sale item.

But as Dave mentioned (and thanks for jumping in here) they are guidelines and I appreciate everyones replies. I have no interest in debate on this issue and it's obvious there are a lot of burned people on both sides and no amount of "suggestions" will convince anybody any differently.

Mods please close this thread.

Thanks everyone.

CC

 

[Mooncat]

I got slightly into this trap myself, took a few deposits for some work I was doing

Then all of a sudden it doesnt become an enjoyable hobby its work as you have obligations now

(I refunded the deposits after keeping them far to long I might add) and mine were only 3 - 4 helmets

So I can totally understand an Artist dragging their heels and becoming weighed down with work . . . Problem is and I see it all the time on here its those 'waitlists'

Some peeps think they can carry on or slightly increase their custom production pace and sell some stuff on here keep in control of their work rate . . some get flattered / greedy and dont want to say no for fear that no other work might be forthcoming

But its a trap, some see it as a second job / see it as a new primary job . . But . . & this as has been said before this forum acts as a conduit for these types of transactions . . .

As long as people know the risks . . they roll the dice . .

But we can help them by posting waitlists for each customizer offering to do work on here

I could quite easily have been burned with Howes . . as others were . . I could quite easily have been burned with some others on here (some Ive been scolded with) I mean 2 - 1/2 years for fully paid paints ! . . and some work Ive just given up on completely because . . . lifes gotten in their way . . illness . . hurricane . . etc

As long as you know the risks its down to the individual . . but the noobs . . dont always read the 'stuff to know before you jump on a 30 long listed commision for full sets of clothes and helmets' thread and they dont check the 3 other threads with 15 people each signed up waiting for work

So Mods should have an opinion 'IMO' on the workload of customisers (Im guessing as a mod they are aware of post rates and can determine if 'a lot' of posting signup threads asking for fully paid or deposits money have been posted for a customizer

Lock em if they feel its necassary . . Police the Forum . . Have a pro active opinion . . and have some way to tell the younger members the potential risks . . . offer their Mod wisdom

Ive seen so many commision threads from new members and have fallen into this trap myself as Ive said . . Howes should be learned from . . . Mods do have opinions and should offer them . . Wisdom is either accepted or rejected but at least its offered . . get warnings into threads . . Its a kick up the arse and lets face it those arty types need them from time to time . . . If a mod gives you a warning in your thread . . You get a warning you cant post anymore signup / project threads on this board

But a list of outstanding work for anyone wishing to offer their services should be posted IMO . . otherwise find another board to post your wares . .

Headcasts . . you should only take small deposits no bigger than $5 each . . . afterall its one head 1 1/2 inch by 1 inch

Not alot of material costs just your time (but if time is money . . . sell it on ebay and leave this board alone) . . nobody should be taking full payments until its cast time . . . and imho they should be done throgh a reputable caster with a proven history . . Case in point . . Daniel aka Sunohc . . Sculptor . . . sends his casts to Lonnie . . H2 creative . . . A reputable reliable system . . .

As far as I am aware no sculptor or buyer has been burnt with Lonnie . . I maybe wrong . . but Id post something up on the boards about using Lonnie (maybe some other honest and reliable caster) and get him in the mix on transactions on here . .

My tuppence

 

[gdb]

I don't know if anyone has thrown this out, but there seems to be nothing against requiring partial payment midway through. If, for instance, a customizer thinks the job is going to take up to 60 days, they could require payment or partial payment half-way in. Just so long as delivery is made within 30 days from then.