Did Buffy "Jump the Shark?"

[Josette]

I startled struggling with Buffy in season four because I despised Riley and I thought the initiative storyline was dumb in comparision to the previous seasons. I still watched every day though and I still considered it a good show.

I started getting turned off with season five. Dawn was probably a main reason. I just didn't like how they threw her in there and how everyone was supposed to remember and love "Dawnie"...to tell the truth, she reminded me a bit of a Joss Whedon version of a "Mary Sue" because of how the storyline played out. Glory was an annoying, ineffective big bad, IMO.

I didn't like seasons six and seven at all. I tuned in for the musical episode and the series finale but pretty much watched the rest of the two seasons sporadically and never liked what I happened to catch. I hated the slayerettes, I hated the three guys as villlains...all of that was so lame.

I think a lot of it has to do with the characters. I didn't like Dawn. I never warmed to Anya (a poor Cordelia replacement to me), and I didn't like the direction that the character of Spike went in (the chip, the soul, how his relationship with Buffy came about)... And I stopped liking Buffy herself.

 

[TheObsoleteMan]

I hated the three guys as villlains

I don't know what they were thinking having the three nerd guys be the main villains for season six. They would've been entertaining in a stand alone episode, but not for a whole season.

 

[chamildav]

The trio. Well, I thought that was a pathetic big bad also but I felt the two part finale redeemed the season. And season six did have some nice stand alone episodes like "Once more with Feeling". I also don't know if I ever felt like Buffy's relationship with Spike made much sense. But not every relationship does make sense. But overall I enjoyed the season.

Season five also had it's moments. I'm not a Dawn hater, at least not in concept. I think it was kind of interesting bringing this character in as they prepared for Joyce's exit. Dawn is a tad whiny even for a fourteen year old and that wears thin fairly quickly, but the idea was great. The execution was a tad spotty which is true of the series overall after season three.
I think that Glory wasn't a horrible idea either, just not very well executed.

Anyway, I don't think you can say the program ever really jumped the shark. But it did lose energy after the third season and never really seemed to get it back. But it was still a more intelligent and entertaining show at it's worst than most of the drivel on television. And I just can't find a true JTS moment anywhere in Buffy.

 

[ffl1940]

Current- Lost, Family Guy, and Invasion....


Lost, watch two or three episodes the first year and didn't like it at all with all the monster mystery. Even though I liked Alias (for a season and a half anyways) I couldn't give JJ Abrams any more of my time to make up mystical Rimbaldi like reasons for what was going on on the island.

Never watched enough Family Guy to judge.

Invasion, bored nearly to death during the first episode but I gave it another shot the second week because I thought maybe it's just gonna take a bit to get going but I was bored even nearlier to death! So I gave up on it.

 

[Darklord Dave]

While we're trashing others' favorite series - I truly hate Family Guy, I've watched enough episodes to know that unequivocally. South Park did an excellent episode (2 parter, I believe) that explicated the reason Family Guy is so bad, and they were pretty much on the mark.

As for Season 6 - the Trio was NOT the Big Bad. I didn't like the season all that much when I first watched it, but I got the DVD set and watched the whole thing in about a week and it all came together for me. WILLOW is the Big Bad of Season 6. Her development into it starts in the first episode and culminates in the final. It's the most thoughtful and well developed Big Bads they ever did.

 

[Fritz]

...I truly hate Family Guy...

I don't think we can speak anymore.

Ok, I'll get in on the series trashing bandwagon...
I can't stand Southpark!!!

 

[Protozaius]

I don't think we can speak anymore.

Ok, I'll get in on the series trashing bandwagon...
I can't stand Southpark!!!

How did this thread come to dissing people's favorite TV shows?

If you ask me, I think this whole thread has JUMPED THE SHARK!

 

[Wor-Gar]

I'd have to agree that after season 3, the series never really had the same feeling -- the microcosm of High School was a wonderfully simple way to explore simple fears we've all gone through. Buffy's college years didn't resonate quite the same way. Some stand-out episodes in the latter but not the overall magic for me as it was during those early years.

Television shows never end well...

 

[Darklord Dave]

If it jumped anywhere, it was "Doublemeat Palace". More than "Beer Bad" or any other episode, DP is almost unwatchable for me.

Although FF's banner with "My hat has a cow on it" is still funny...

 

[swiftlikessharpthings]

Season Four is definitely a weak link, but so is the whole character of Riley. I love the episode where Angel comes to apologize and ends up beating the snot out of him.

Season Five is better, I liked Glory and hated the whole Ben angle, but that's okay-- by the time I REALLY wanted Ben to die, my man Giles took care of it.

Season Six confuses a lot of people. In interviews Joss has said that life itself is the big bad, not the Trio and not Willow. "Once More With Feeling" made me wish I could write a musical, even though I hate the things.

Season Seven was a bit hit and miss until the last eight or ten eps. There were some definite throwaway episodes in there (was Ashanti's guest appearance necessary at all?) but I liked how it all ended up, with the original four surviving.

 

[Josette]

Season Four is definitely a weak link, but so is the whole character of Riley. I love the episode where Angel comes to apologize and ends up beating the snot out of him.

I loved, loved, loved that episode. I was cheering Angel on. And didn't he say something like "This is what you replaced me with?" Priceless.

Season Six confuses a lot of people. In interviews Joss has said that life itself is the big bad, not the Trio and not Willow.

It doesn't really matter to me what Joss said. There was entirely too much of the trio in season six. They were just lame and used more for comedy than anything else until the whole thing with Tara. I hated them. I don't care who the "big bad" was. They were just plain bad.

 

[Fritz]

How did this thread come to dissing people's favorite TV shows?...

I don't know, I just jumped on the bandwagon.

In regards to "Jumping the Shark", I don't think that's possible in the Buffyverse.

 

[TheObsoleteMan]

In regards to "Jumping the Shark", I don't think that's possible in the Buffyverse.

Oh, it's possible. Angel came dangerously close when baby Connor was introduced. It's only the tremendous impact that it eventually has on Wes that makes those episodes tolerable.

 

[Fritz]

Oh, it's possible. Angel came dangerously close when baby Connor was introduced. It's only the tremendous impact that it eventually has on Wes that makes those episodes tolerable.

Oh you had to mention the "C" word. That's even worse than the "R" word from Buffy. But I know what you mean.

 

[Protozaius]

It's strange that even though both Buffy and Angel had their share of weak characters, the writers always found a way to have VERY strong moments using them.

In the case of Riley, I personally didn't want him to replace Angel. And to a large extent he didn't. So, I found the scene where Angel beats up Riley very cathartic. And yet, in his last episode, after Xander's impassioned speech I found myself rooted for Buffy to arrive at the lauch pad on time. Also the episode where Riley meets up with Buffy at the DoubleMeat Palace serves to show how far Buffy has fallen since they were together.

As for Conner, no one was more happier to see this kid leave the show than me. However, the episodes that he appears in the final episodes are among my favorites that year. I found Connor appearing at Wolfram and Hart to help his Dad to fight against Hamilton to be geniunely moving.

And the trio were a bit weak. Yet, in the episode where Buffy hallucinates that she is in mental clinic believing that her life as a slayer was an illusion, the doctor warns her that her "illusion as a slayer" is breaking down... first she was fighting superhumans (Adam) and gods (Glory) now she is fighting three kids from school. Here the writers are acknowledging one of the weaknesses of the season and are using it to drive the narrative... to make Buffy believe the hallucination.

Turning a weakness into a strength (even if is just for a moment) is what I really liked that about the show.

 

[swiftlikessharpthings]

Turning a weakness into a strength (even if is just for a moment) is what I really liked that about the show.

Yeah, that's what makes these shows great to me. They were able to look back and say, "maybe that wasn't such a great idea" and were still able to salvage something. Either they made the less good ideas matter or used them as a springboard for something cooler.
If only mainstream comic books could do that these days...

 

[Darklord Dave]

I really don't see why the idea of Conner is so disliked by many people. Sure, the character was a annoying at times and evil at others, but I thought it was great plot development.

 

[Protozaius]

I agree that there was some great plot development centering around the character. However, what made me dislike Conner was that even when he found out that Holtz lied to him and staged his own death, he still HATED Angel. And no "I'm sorry, Dad for dropping you into a watery grave" or anything!

The only time Connor seemed to get along with Angel was when they were both mindlessly worshiping Jasmine.

Would it have killed him to give his Daddy a hug?

 

[TheObsoleteMan]

Connor during season 4 was fine, he was an interesting, disruptive element. I just didn't care for baby Connor during season 3, at least until he got kidnapped.

 

[Fritz]

I really don't see why the idea of Conner is so disliked by many people. Sure, the character was a annoying at times and evil at others, but I thought it was great plot development.

Personally I think I'm just bitter that he got together with Cordy and I didn't.