Doctor Who - Spoilers!

[d_jedi1]

I can't believe it's been 46 years and the Daleks still haven't been the cause of a regeneration. What a waste!

(decides to count indirect causes)
1996 TVM
The Daleks had the Doctor pick up the master who in turn caused an emergency landing where the Doctor got shot and poisoned by human anesthetics thus causing regeneration..
Did they cause it? NO
Did they set in motion the chain of events leading to it? YES

2005 Timewar (unseen)
Due to something (likely the timewar and likely the Daleks) the Eighth Doctor regenerates into the ninth, possibly crashing right before the Titanic disaster. Definitely before the episode "Rose"
Did they cause it? UNKNOWN but likely
Did they set in motion the chain of events leading to it? YES almost certainly.

2005 The Parting of Ways
Faced with a nearly impossible decision, the Doctor sends Rose home so he can finish off the Daleks. She manages to return, having absorbed the energy from the time vortex. She defeats the Daleks and the Doctor takes the energy from Rose and returns it to the TARDIS causing cell death and his regeneration.
Did they cause it? NOT DIRECTLY
Did they set in motion the chain of events leading to it? YES

2008 The Stolen Earth/Journey's End
The Doctor sees Rose and runs across the street toward her only to get blindsided by a rogue Dalek (who then conveniently gets blown away). Instead of immediately dying like everyone else who gets shot by the Daleks, the Doctor is helped into the TARDIS where he begins to regenerate (Stolen earth) and as soon as it heals him, he shunts the rest of the energy into his old severed hand (Journey's end) which later becomes a half-human version of the Doctor.
Did they cause it? OOOOH YEAH (even if it was essentially retconned in the next episode)
Did they set in motion the chain of events leading to it? YES definitely yes.


Now all this was posted tongue in cheek so don't take me for a smartass, I'm just playing

 

[William Shatners Toupee]

Well, I consider RTD more into showing flash than concerned with telling episodes with substance. To him the villains were just a gimmick for the most part and he treated them that way, where-as Moffat respects the story of an ep a bit more and the enemies, and understands that baddies NEED to be a credible threat so that's what I am so curious/excited about the Dalek and Cybermen re-appearance this season to see what he does for them.

Like we've talked about, many enemies over the years have really needed some polishing up and needed to be handled right. I think now is that time.

 

[William Shatners Toupee]

Let me start a topic here along the lines of what I was just saying- how would YOU like to see some classic enemies updated? What do you think needs to be done?

 

[William Shatners Toupee]

Ice Warriors- I can't believe it's been so long since these guys have been brought back! I kinda liked the BS rumor that was floating around of RED ICE WARRIORS last year. To make up some back story, it would be cool if the red ones were a more hostile warlike splinter and the green ones were still around as good guys in the Federation.

The red ones could appear on their own and in later stories as part of a civil war against the green ones. Possibilities abound. Not that they would need to be there, but it would rock to have more stories set in the Federation again. I loved that!

Sontarans- in the classic eps they stated the Sontarans are out to conquer everything (in Invasion of Time). They MUST have had some conflicts with the Daleks (even if they quickly decided to avoid them) and have some sort of contingency plan to deal with them, even if they are waiting to let others try and wipe them out.

I love the Sontarans and hope they flesh them out more.

Cybermen My fav enemies, and it's hard to say how to "fix" the rut they are in. My main solution is to always play them as "horror" baddies. Silent. Scary. In shadows. My main goal would be to see them lose the "straggling last of their kind" theme. I hate that with all the Who enemies!

Let the Cybermen have been smart enough to have seeded hidden tombs all throughout the galaxy at the height of their power (which we never even saw) as a contingency in case anything happened to them.

I think they may need to take a new route to try something different with them. Have them make Cybermen human looking "replicants" and have them seeded throughout the galaxy in important positions all poised to make humanity more vulnerable to an eventual attack.
It wouldn't be a one episode story. Out in an unexplored region of space their Cyber army has grown millions strong, but they will attack humanity with subterfuge. Since they hate any other lifeforms not like them they will also be manipulating humanity to go to war against other alien races to wipe them out while the Cybermen are safe on their new world.

And while not an enemy, there is no reason why K-9 shouldn't be back on board regularly. There was the long standing argument that you don't need two Doctors on board, but that's just a lazy writer talking because there were some great classic episodes where K-9 got to shine and the stories balanced well. For the most part you just need to kick him off on a mission of his own like they do with every companion so he isn't paired with the Doctor stealing his thunder.

 

[barbelith]

Now all this was posted tongue in cheek so don't take me for a smartass, I'm just playing

I know, but none of those count. We need to see a Dalek shoot the Doctor, and he dies.

 

[d_jedi1]

I know, but none of those count. We need to see a Dalek shoot the Doctor, and he dies.

we could always do a fan edit where he changes into Matt Smith instead of shunting the energy into the hand

but seriously.. I agree. Even if it's only done as a timewar flashback, I think you're right.
Heck, the cybermen were technically responsible for the FIRST regeneration and here the Daleks are still busters with no (true) Doctor kills to their credit.

 

[barbelith]

Sontarans- in the classic eps they stated the Sontarans are out to conquer everything (in Invasion of Time).

I hated the Sontarans in series four; they were turned into comedy trolls and then defeated by children in SJA. I don't think they've really worked as a villain since their second appearance. They need a proper alien invasion story, but since the "victims" of the new series always have to be humans based on Earth I suppose it'll never happen. We've already seen the "advance scout" stories; we need to see an actual army story. A riff on Saving Private Ryan or something. Play it as a WW2 thing, where Sontarans mean death.

Cybermen My fav enemies, and it's hard to say how to "fix" the rut they are in. My main solution is to always play them as "horror" baddies.

This one is so easy to fix. Forget the alternate universe and use proper Cybermen, and then write zombie stories. Every good Cyberman story is really just a zombie story. The walking dead, out to kill you or (worse) turn you. They should be largely unseen, slow moving, unstoppable. Cybermen stories should be terrifying.

And while not an enemy, there is no reason why K-9 shouldn't be back on board regularly.

Money. It'll never happen.

 

[Blackhole]

This one is so easy to fix. Forget the alternate universe and use proper Cybermen, and then write zombie stories. Every good Cyberman story is really just a zombie story. The walking dead, out to kill you or (worse) turn you. They should be largely unseen, slow moving, unstoppable. Cybermen stories should be terrifying.

Why don't the original Cybermen turn up, be all like "EXCUSE US, WTF R U DOING?"

Then destroy the Cybusmen once and for all, and reclaim their place in the Whoniverse...

As for K9, the BBC now have to shell out every time they want to use him because they don't own the rights to the character any more...

 

[bcm77]

Let me start a topic here along the lines of what I was just saying- how would YOU like to see some classic enemies updated? What do you think needs to be done?

The Master
IMO the character needs to be played by an older actor that can be a convincing evil bastard. I suggest Alan Rickman or Paul Darrow.

No more super powers.

Needs re-establishing as the most evil Time Lord there ever was. People, maybe even entire cities or planets have to be killed without any shred of mercy and stay that way.....no more magic resets in the last 5 minutes.

Most importantly of all, the goatee NEEDS to return.

Davros
The original version had a unique vocal "tic" where his voice became more & more like a Dalek the more agitated he got. Later actors failed to do it and the character degenerated into a generic ranting Bond villain. Let the guy doing the Dalek voices dub his lines in if the guy in the costume can't do it.

No more Force lightning and Emperor Palpatine dialogue.

Cybermen
Mondasian ones>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cybusmen.

Cybermats could be given a modern twist.......maybe make them more organic looking?

The stupid "Delete!,Delete!" catchphrase would go.

Sontarans
The armor should be black.

A new batch of "special forces" clones could be grown so that they are taller and more imposing as it would give them a psychological advantage over humans as well as the more obvious physical and technological ones.

No more "Sontar Ha! and crappy "you look like a potato!" jokes.

 

[Minimodel]

I ve just bought "The Chase" and they should do something with the Mechanoids.

 

[Kabukiman]

I know this probably isn't a popular opinion, but I hope The Master is done being evil. He was "cured" of his madness when the drumming stopped, no? Maybe not. I dunno, I'm a sap and I love redemption.

 

[Blackhole]

The Master
IMO the character needs to be played by an older actor that can be a convincing evil bastard. I suggest Alan Rickman or Paul Darrow.

No more super powers.

Needs re-establishing as the most evil Time Lord there ever was. People, maybe even entire cities or planets have to be killed without any shred of mercy and stay that way.....no more magic resets in the last 5 minutes.

Most importantly of all, the goatee NEEDS to return.

Davros
The original version had a unique vocal "tic" where his voice became more & more like a Dalek the more agitated he got. Later actors failed to do it and the character degenerated into a generic ranting Bond villain. Let the guy doing the Dalek voices dub his lines in if the guy in the costume can't do it.

No more Force lightning and Emperor Palpatine dialogue.

Cybermen
Mondasian ones>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cybusmen.

Cybermats could be given a modern twist.......maybe make them more organic looking?

The stupid "Delete!,Delete!" catchphrase would go.

Sontarans
The armor should be black.

A new batch of "special forces" clones could be grown so that they are taller and more imposing as it would give them a psychological advantage over humans as well as the more obvious physical and technological ones.

No more "Sontar Ha! and crappy "you look like a potato!" jokes.

I agree about the goatee, I didn't mind John Simm as the Master, but I agree that there should be no more superpowers, that just made him look stupid. Of course he's dead now, until they resurrect him inevitably again...

I like the Davros costume for the update, but the voice needs changing. He's meant to be cold and calculating, not insane...

The original Cybermen need to return and destroy the Cybusmen. As much as I enjoy the Cybusmen, I feel that the team keeps coming up with excuses of why they're in our universe all of a sudden, like "the void opened and chucked them out!"...

And I also liked the Sontaran Armour for this series, but it should be grey or black. And yes, they look like potatoes, we know...please talk about something else MR DOCTOR....

 

[William Shatners Toupee]

Why don't the original Cybermen turn up, be all like "EXCUSE US, WTF R U DOING?"

Then destroy the Cybusmen once and for all, and reclaim their place in the Whoniverse...

As for K9, the BBC now have to shell out every time they want to use him because they don't own the rights to the character any more...

Laugh!

As far as the K-9 thing, isn't that only if they used the new designed version and that the use of the old version is still theirs cause it was a matter of owning the design?

 

[William Shatners Toupee]

The Master
IMO the character needs to be played by an older actor that can be a convincing evil bastard. I suggest Alan Rickman or Paul Darrow.

No more super powers.

Needs re-establishing as the most evil Time Lord there ever was. People, maybe even entire cities or planets have to be killed without any shred of mercy and stay that way.....no more magic resets in the last 5 minutes.

Most importantly of all, the goatee NEEDS to return.

Davros
The original version had a unique vocal "tic" where his voice became more & more like a Dalek the more agitated he got. Later actors failed to do it and the character degenerated into a generic ranting Bond villain. Let the guy doing the Dalek voices dub his lines in if the guy in the costume can't do it.

No more Force lightning and Emperor Palpatine dialogue.

Cybermen
Mondasian ones>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Cybusmen.

Cybermats could be given a modern twist.......maybe make them more organic looking?

The stupid "Delete!,Delete!" catchphrase would go.

Sontarans
The armor should be black.

A new batch of "special forces" clones could be grown so that they are taller and more imposing as it would give them a psychological advantage over humans as well as the more obvious physical and technological ones.

No more "Sontar Ha! and crappy "you look like a potato!" jokes.

I agree with all of that. I'd hope the Master isn't back for a good long time anyways to wash the taste of the goofy Simm out from my memory. The drums def were what made him evil, so if he is still evil (now out of hostility for ruining his life with the drums?) they need to address that. Personally I'd say bring back OMEGA instead. If the rift was bringing back all these terrible creatures as established in the new series, they have a good excuse on how to bring him back. (He survived in the BF audio after ARC, and WTH, this is sci-fi anyways.)

BCM, you cheeky monkey! Thank you for using my "Sontarans should be physically intimidating for psychological warfare reasons" rant I totally forgot to mention!

 

[bcm77]

I know this probably isn't a popular opinion, but I hope The Master is done being evil. He was "cured" of his madness when the drumming stopped, no? Maybe not. I dunno, I'm a sap and I love redemption.

RTD's attempt at turning the Master into a sympathetic figure has to rank as one of his biggest brainfarts.

The character was literally created to be the Professor Moriarty to the Doctor's Sherlock Holmes ( read Barry Letts autobiography for confirmation of this ), evil to the very core of his being and not someone who started "hearing voices" as a youth who was manipulated into becoming a criminal by the real bad guys.

If the Master ever gets resurrected all the stuff RTD did needs to be entirely forgotten and the character needs rebooting with a more old school approach.

WST,
I thought it was odd you didn't mention it so I thought I'd pop it in there

 

[pixletwin]

RTD's attempt at turning the Master into a sympathetic figure has to rank as one of his biggest brainfarts.

I thought you enjoyed the writing of Robert Holmes? This was actually his intended "brain fart" for Pertwee's final season until Delgado was killed in a car accident.

 

[N2k-swb]

While i enjoy blast from the past villains it seems the creative thoughts bringing these characters back everytime is wearing thin. personally im all for the creaton of some brand new villians but real bad-a$$ ones not ones were made to feel sorry for. id like to see Jenny sometime in the future just through the fact she was very nice to look at.

 

[bcm77]

I thought you enjoyed the writing of Robert Holmes? This was actually his intended "brain fart" for Pertwee's final season until Delgado was killed in a car accident.

Had things played out that way I trust Robert Holmes would have done so in a more creative, intelligent manner as even his worst stories were on a level that RTD never got remotely close to.

 

[pixletwin]

hehe Brendan.

 

[bcm77]

id like to see Jenny sometime in the future just through the fact she was very nice to look at.

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