English Premier League EPL Thread

[greygoose]

Great win for the Reds today.

 

[dino76m]

fergies strategy seems to be score as many goals as u can,u score 2 we score 3, u score 4 we score 5, in Rooney and RVP, they have 2 players who can change the game at will ,United squad strength which can actually allow them to field 2 Pl sides with Pl experienced players will carry them in the League and maybe another title, Cups could be another matter though.
its unbelivable how players like Nani, Vidic , ,Jones were missing most of the games this season , and yet they are as good as any team
on the other hand in liverpools games against west ham, Diame was raping Liverpool until his injury ,no other team other United can afford to have 3-4 players injured like United, it will be intersting to see how much is United paycheck to the players each week, im betting it will be more than chelsea, at least

 

[dino76m]

on the other hand i thought it was stupid of Mancini to start with Balotelli, i figured he would be targeted by United and be send off within the first 20 min lol

 

[DarthTrafford]

Man City 2-3 Man United

I don't mind being wrong in situations like this

A 2 goal lead at half time was completely unexpected and it should have been 3 goals as they again had a goal disallowed that was later shown to be have been a wrong decision....the myth about all decisions going United's way has again been busted.

I would have been satisfied with a draw but RVP's free kick got a handy flick on from Nasri and ensured that the 3 points went to United....both teams had the same period to score so any claims of "Fergie time" will be as laughable as ever.

Disgusting behavior from the City fans at the end with the coin throwing but that's the bitter blues all over.

RvP's goal seemed over shadowed by the classless City supporters actions.

 

[axecutioner18]

 

[thecorsair]

RvP's goal seemed over shadowed by the classless City supporters actions.

Yeah, it took a bit of the shine of what was a very entertaining game.

Joe Hart deserves some credit for grabbing one of the pitch invaders before he got to Ferdinand....there's always going to be some banter between the two sets of fans but attacking players is utterly moronic.

Despite having wingers that are Championship standard at best, no decent central midfielders and a creaky defence United have somehow managed to get a 6 point lead.

I think they're punching above their weight at the moment but it shows that Fergie's ability to motivate average players into believing they're better than they are is still intact.

I just wish he'd wake up and do something about the midfield.

 

[RagingBull]

Yeah, it took a bit of the shine of what was a very entertaining game.

Joe Hart deserves some credit for grabbing one of the pitch invaders before he got to Ferdinand....there's always going to be some banter between the two sets of fans but attacking players is utterly moronic.

Despite having wingers that are Championship standard at best, no decent central midfielders and a creaky defence United have somehow managed to get a 6 point lead.

I think they're punching above their weight at the moment but it shows that Fergie's ability to motivate average players into believing they're better than they are is still intact.

I just wish he'd wake up and do something about the midfield.

He managed to make players like O'Shea, Butt, Wes Brown etc etc look good. Once there gone to another club there forgotten.
Yeah I think Man U still need to find there new Paul Scholes, which was never going to be an easy task

 

[thecorsair]

He managed to make players like O'Shea, Butt, Wes Brown etc etc look good. Once there gone to another club there forgotten.
Yeah I think Man U still need to find there new Paul Scholes, which was never going to be an easy task

In fairness to Brown he could have become one of the club's greats as he was very good when he first got into the team but two serious injuries early on took their toll and he was never able to fully bounce back from that.

Nicky Butt was overshadowed by the other players that came through at the same time but was decent in his time. He's just the sort of player the midfield could do with now as he was never spectacular but he could handle the defensive midfield role a lot better than Carrick.

O'Shea was always average but his ability to play in so many different positions meant he was a decent player to have in an injury crisis.

As for replacing Scholes,

Cleverley has been hyped to the nth degree and fast tracked into the England team as the FA are so desperate they'll leap upon anyone who has a couple of decent games for their club in the hope they've found the next "savior" to take them to another quarter final defeat.

But like Welbeck he's actually pretty poor and if United are to seriously have a chance at the Champions League again he should be made surplus to requirements.

Anderson has some ability but is too injury prone and has been at the club long enough to have delivered fully on his potential....time to give someone else a chance.

Kagawa might do it once he gets used to the pace of the English game as before his injury he showed some nice touches but looked a bit off the pace.

Nick Powell is the best bet of the current young players, he's been decent in the first team games he's played so far and I'd like to see him get some more chances.

I read some potentially distressing news for Arsenal fans today as there's a bit of speculation that Wenger is apparently considering a £20 million bid for NANI in January!

 

[axecutioner18]

If United want a replacement for Scholes they should consider one of the promising young guys from Barca's B team called Sergi Roberto... hes being shaped into the mould of another Pep Guardiola and his performances have been very good and he has had first team chances where he has played his role well. Not lost posession, great first touch and pin point accurate passing and some great through balls.
I doubt Barca will want to sell him but he is after Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas, and Thiago in the pecking order.

Incidentally he played in the preseason game against ManU, the video is just to show you who Im talkin about, its not a great skill, I think Anderson overcommited himself and slipped.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf8a8Tyz5yk[/ame]

This is a video of him playing but real stupid music at the back and the one who made the video must have been some chick as she was focusing too much on how he looks... :/
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ir9PJhmNows[/ame]

 

[gypsycatcha]

An unbelievable record set by quite possibly the best player the world has ever seen ever !!

 

[thecorsair]

Messi still has to beat Dixie Dean's 60 league goals in a single season for Everton in 1928/29.

That was done in an era when lightweights like Messi or Ronaldo wouldn't have lasted 5 minutes because the game was considerably more physical....skilled players got no protection from referees and just had to "man up" and take whatever punishment they got from the opposing team.

In addition the pitches were generally a lot heavier and the match balls weren't like beach balls especially when they got wet.

So as impressive as Messi's achievement is, I think it's being blown out of proportion.

 

[axecutioner18]

This argument keeps going about earlier this was better, that was better... Im gonna bet that in 1928/29 you werent even born to see what the game was like let alone comment on it. Second the argument can also be that the defenders or the average stamina and strength of players was nothing compared to now, the speed, skills too were not there... moreover 1928? I dont think there were as many archivers or even 'evidence' to what happened. The rules were sketchy nowadays with technology and stuff we get so many dubious decisions and goals, I wonder what the scene was then?

like you I think in reverse those 'heavyweights' of the Jurassic age wouldnt last 5 min in the game as the stamina to last 90mins would be expened in 5. You sure have watched the game for a long time, then you must be aware how much stamina has increased over the years. Players dont seem tired playing 120 mins let alone 90 these days... even 10 years from now at 120 min the whole energy of a match used to drop.

Today I heard some Zambian FA said that the highest no of goals in a Calender Year belongs to a Zambian who plyed his trade in the Zambian league and was for 107.
I wonder where they were ALL THESE YEARS before Messi's achievement came to light.

The deal is comparing who would last where in what era is nothing more than stupid. And I think a standout player is based on him standing out during his era. You cant say for sure who can last and who cant in different eras.

I dont think Messi's achievement is being blown out of proportion. if it was not as impressive as it was the record wouldnt have stood for 40 years... Im sure lots of greats came in between Muller and Messi... it should have been as gettable by them too...

 

[thecorsair]

I'm guessing you jumped on the Barcelona bandwagon a few years ago and think they invented football.

The English Football League is the oldest professional league in the world and has been fully recorded since it's inception in 1888.

There are numerous accounts from people involved in the game from that time about the physicality in the game which continued until well into the 1960's.

The likes of Paul Scholes and Roy Keane are/were the last remnants of a breed of true "hard men" that used to be the norm in the English game and selected other countries.

Would a modern player BREAK HIS NECK in a match and continue playing because there were no substitutes allowed? Not a chance.

Man City's goalkeeper Bert Trautmann did in the 1956 FA Cup Final and 2 years later United's Ray Wood continued after suffering a bad concussion from a legal shoulder charge by an opposing forward who slammed him into the net with the ball still in his hands....the goal stood whereas today the forward would have been sent off.

All that the changes to the laws on tackling have done is turn so called top professionals into a bunch of wet blankets that react like they've been shot every time someone waves a leg in their general direction....Messi isn't as bad as some of his team mates but he's been guilty of it as well.

Another factor that gets ignored is the fact that the quality of the pitches was a lot worse....running up and down a mudheap for 90 minutes is a lot harder than today's playing surfaces especially with a ball that was something akin to a medicine ball instead of today's balloons.....a little runt like Messi would probably break his foot on an old style match ball.

Many players also worked another job as the wages were so poor so they'd spend their week down a coal mine, their evenings training for the game on Saturday....many of today's overpaid pansies complain of tiredness after playing twice a week and doing a few hours training.

In an era when players get overprotected by referees Messi has excelled, but in days gone by he would have gotten the crap kicked out of him and even today he would struggle in certain leagues....which is likely why he's reluctant to step out of his little bubble at Barcelona.

 

[axecutioner18]

Ive been a Barca supporter long before Messi was even inducted into the La Masia setup... since the time I used to see Guardiola, Romario, Stoichkov and Laudrup. And Im under no illusion of them 'inventing' football... Ive seen Barca play some of their worst seasons and am currently thoroughly enjoying the fact that they are in one of their best times!

My point was, you talk about his record being overhyped... which is pretty foolish in 'context'. Then you talk about footballer needing to be hard men, you talk like the real footballer then should be trained and be acclimitised like boxers... the game changes every 5 years nowdays. Football was a game invented and called the beautiful game for its flair... not to be a contest of who is stronger/rougher and can deal the most damage and still come unscathed. This mentality you show exactly personifies why the English National team has done nothing over decades, where a young promising boy would be deemed unfit due to his height and strength even if he had superior ball skills, vision and touch.

The Brazilians who ruled the world in the years you mentioned are a perfect example. I dont think they were tanks or anything. The fact that you laud players for being rough and play rough shows why the English game has not done anything or even evolved. Most of the top players in the EPL are foreigners...

As for small runts who wouldnt last against old school British Hardmen... I remember a midget called Maradona. Oh but I forgot, he is the poster boy of a cheat for you guys! But the rest of the world including a lot of modern legends consider him the greatest player ever... so do I though.

 

[thecorsair]

Physical toughness is NOT the only attribute that's important.

But players that combine toughness with real skill are for me always more intresting to watch than the overhyped show ponies that spend most of the match trying to do tricks.

The most skillful players in English/British history such as Bobby Charlton, George Best and Stanley Matthews were tough enough to survive in a very physical game and still managed to gain a reputation for being among the best in the world during their respective eras without relying on preferencial treatment from officials.

Take away the protection from the refs and none of today's "stars" would be any threat whatsoever because they are used to getting fouls awarded for the tiniest little thing....most of the time they just fall over without any contact being made.

The influx of foreign players has effectively killed the English national team although in fairness the FA blew their last chance at success by failing to appoint Brian Clough in the late 70's.

So I pay no attention to international football any more because seeing England fail at the same stage got very old somewhere during the 90's and I really can't be bothered with it.

Maradona managed one good game against an average England team but I doubt he would have lasted more than a season had he signed for an English team as he wouldn't have liked the weather and would probably have got busted for his drug habits.

The increase in foreign players in the Premier League is also why my intrest in football as a whole has gradually waned in recent years because with very few exceptions they've done little but bring their low standards of conduct with them.

Players diving, harassing officials and generally acting like spoilt brats wasn't unheard of in the years before Sky TV messed things up but it was far less widespread than today.

 

[axecutioner18]

Bobby Charlton/George Best AND Stanley Matthews... I wonder if you were old even to see Charlton in his prime let alone Stanley to make statements like that. And the so called players you are talking about are greats etc etc but NO ONE ever will put them on a pantheon with names like Pele, Maradona, Cryuff... players who revolutionised the game. Difference is just that... Flair.

Just like you vaunt about the EPL and how most players cant survive there I can easily say that most Englishmen wouldnt survive in the other leagues simply because their basic footballing skills are at a much lower level bolstered only by physical prowess. And ironically if you see the demography of demand for English Players in foreign leagues you'll see how valid my claim is and how hollow yours is. The English Teams nowdays manage to keep their title ambitions up mostly because of foreigners.

The English won their ONLY World Cup in a manner the rest of the world suggest as dubious. Yes, you guys won it because it was staged and home and on the run a lot of dubious decisions went your way. Period.

Maradona managed one good game against England? Denial is a strong drug. Maradona plyed his trade in Serie A during a period when Italian Brutality was at a zenith. Your hardened Englishmen would have been sent to the grave by people like Gentile & Co. Now dont tell me that the EPL is a physically tougher league than the Italians. The Serie A is a stronghold of crunching tackles, tolerant referees. Maradona SINGLEHANDEDLY took Napoli from nobodies to title winners... and the brutal kickings he used to get every match was record and bone breaking. If you can deny and close your eyes to that bit of fact, then I've nothing to say...

And like I said you are an MU fan right... where would you guys be without The Frenchman. You know who Im referring to... now please dont say he was bona fide English.

 

[thecorsair]

I don't have to be old enough to have seen the greats of the English game, there's plenty of footage of them in existence.

Cantona was one of the exceptions of a foreign player who came here for more than a paycheque, he actually gave a crap and his positive influence on the young players at the club was undoubtedly one of the greatest contributions to United's success in the last 20 years.

But players like him are few & far between especially in the last 10 years and all the players coming from countries where diving and conning the referee are so ingrained into the culture ( South America, Italy, Spain, Portugal etc etc ) have effectively killed the English game as it once was. The discipline and fair play weren't perfect, but it was a hell of a lot better.

As for where English clubs would be without foreign players....Liverpool won their first 4 European Cups with only a couple of non Brits and Nottingham Forest won it twice in consecutive seasons with 90% English players.

Ironic how you mention Maradona and a drug in the same sentence seeing as how he was so fond of them.

What the rest of the world thinks of England's '66 win means absolutely nothing, the records state they won and that's that.

Any league outside the EPL = Not intrested. End of story.

 

[axecutioner18]

I don't have to be old enough to have seen the greats of the English game, there's plenty of footage of them in existence.

Therein lies the difference between fans like you and those who form their opinion by actually seeing. I dont formulate opinions based on ancient Youtube videos. I formulate opinions based on what I have seen in my lifetime, that is a part history which I can call a part of my present.

As for you pointing about how disciplined and stuff that the 'authentic' English game was, and how the 'culture' of the South Americans/Spanish/Portoguese ruined it. The only reason the game is popular around the world is because of these guys... and it has a hell of a lot to do with their skills on the ball.
As for English discipline and what significant impact they left on the game Id say 'hooliganism' is what they've done.

Your views on the game show you have some sort of a crazy Hangover on a period you werent even born in or experienced. You must be like a rugby fan more than a football fan.
Yes I know, England has never produced a natural talent in the force of the pantheon of greats and the hype the English media does of every little spark of talent exactly shows why you are so bitter.

The Nottingham and Liverpool teams you talk about... again, Ive never seen them so I cant even comment about them... and as usual I doubt if you have seen them considering how well you seemed to know how they played and all.

As a parting note Id just like to give you the example of a team like Germany who have won more stuff than you and consistently perform better. They have evolved with the game, the Germany of today are not the same of a decade back nor one even before that. Me being a German supporter in internationals have seen their evolution closely and that is the reason they succeed while England fails.
Because there are some guys who still like you in the British FA and who would rather harp about the previous years and live in 66 and talk about generations they werent born in or experienced than wake up, see the future and adapt to the game...

 

[thecorsair]

Therein lies the difference between fans like you and those who form their opinion by actually seeing. I dont formulate opinions based on ancient Youtube videos. I formulate opinions based on what I have seen in my lifetime, that is a part history which I can call a part of my present.

As for you pointing about how disciplined and stuff that the 'authentic' English game was, and how the 'culture' of the South Americans/Spanish/Portoguese ruined it. The only reason the game is popular around the world is because of these guys... and it has a hell of a lot to do with their skills on the ball.
As for English discipline and what significant impact they left on the game Id say 'hooliganism' is what they've done.

Your views on the game show you have some sort of a crazy Hangover on a period you werent even born in or experienced. You must be like a rugby fan more than a football fan.
Yes I know, England has never produced a natural talent in the force of the pantheon of greats and the hype the English media does of every little spark of talent exactly shows why you are so bitter.

The Nottingham and Liverpool teams you talk about... again, Ive never seen them so I cant even comment about them... and as usual I doubt if you have seen them considering how well you seemed to know how they played and all.

As a parting note Id just like to give you the example of a team like Germany who have won more stuff than you and consistently perform better. They have evolved with the game, the Germany of today are not the same of a decade back nor one even before that. Me being a German supporter in internationals have seen their evolution closely and that is the reason they succeed while England fails.
Because there are some guys who still like you in the British FA and who would rather harp about the previous years and live in 66 and talk about generations they werent born in or experienced than wake up, see the future and adapt to the game...

Dude, I grew up in the period just after Liverpool and Nottingham Forest had their success, I live about 4 miles from Nottingham and went to many games with my Dad until an incident with some Liverpool "fans" put us off going as my Dad felt it was no longer safe.

So I know just how good they were. They played the game as it should be played and none of their players had to resort to diving and all the other BS that the so called "greats" from other countries get a free pass for just because they can do a couple of stepovers or some ball juggling.

Due to being a tiny club with little money Forest were never destined to dominate over a long period but they have their place in the English game and also made their mark on what is now the Champions League.

As for Liverpool, the teams that won their first 4 European Cups were as good as anybody before or since, even though I'm a United fan I have no problem acknowledging that.

Hooliganism is nothing to do with how players conduct themselves and is just as likely to be found in other countries as it is here.

The culture of cheating however is much more acceptable in other parts of the world which is why many top players get elevated to God like status instead of being kicked out of the game.

As for your remark about English players never gaining any major recognition that's simply bollocks,

Pele is one of Bobby Charlton's biggest fans and plenty of people within the game acknowledge George Best's talent....he was up there with Pele & Cruyff as the greatest ever and in today's market would be worth ten times as much as Ronaldo or Messi.

More recently Paul Scholes has recieved praise from the likes of Thierry Henry, Xavi, Marcelo Lippi and was called "the complete midfielder" by Zinedine Zidane....so he's clearly made an impression with people that matter.

 

[Wanderer]

Physical toughness is NOT the only attribute that's important.

But players that combine toughness with real skill are for me always more intresting to watch than the overhyped show ponies that spend most of the match trying to do tricks.

The most skillful players in English/British history such as Bobby Charlton, George Best and Stanley Matthews were tough enough to survive in a very physical game and still managed to gain a reputation for being among the best in the world during their respective eras without relying on preferencial treatment from officials.

Take away the protection from the refs and none of today's "stars" would be any threat whatsoever because they are used to getting fouls awarded for the tiniest little thing....most of the time they just fall over without any contact being made.

The influx of foreign players has effectively killed the English national team although in fairness the FA blew their last chance at success by failing to appoint Brian Clough in the late 70's.

So I pay no attention to international football any more because seeing England fail at the same stage got very old somewhere during the 90's and I really can't be bothered with it.

Maradona managed one good game against an average England team but I doubt he would have lasted more than a season had he signed for an English team as he wouldn't have liked the weather and would probably have got busted for his drug habits.

The increase in foreign players in the Premier League is also why my intrest in football as a whole has gradually waned in recent years because with very few exceptions they've done little but bring their low standards of conduct with them.

Players diving, harassing officials and generally acting like spoilt brats wasn't unheard of in the years before Sky TV messed things up but it was far less widespread than today.

What interest do you actually have in football exactly? You ***** and whine about Utd, you're now saying the Prem is crap because of the foreign influx and you don't follow England...have I missed anything?
I haven't seen one worthwhile discussion you've raised in this thread...ever.
Poor fellow