GODZILLA: KING OF THE MONSTERS - Legendary Pictures' Godzilla 2

[Biojex]

Well yes that is also true but so was AntMan 2 and that fizzed so something about CM made it more interesting than AM2.

The irony being that AM2 was more crucial to the plot of Endgame

I can speak to that, the main draw getting me to see CM in theaters instead of waiting for Blu Ray was that the end of IW made it seem like she would play a large role in defeating Thanos, so I wanted to understand the character so I could go along with the EG story better. CW gave plenty on Black Panther where I never felt need to run out to that movie before seeing IW.



Movies and shows have always been a point of social connection, but I agree, instead of just participating in it, there's a growing pressure that you must participate in it, like you're shunned if someone asks "did you see ......, no, how could you not watch that", whereas at one time, it seemed more like, "did you see...., me too, wasn't it great." It was fun to find others who saw and also liked something, but now you're treated like an outcast if you didn't even watch it.

Yeah, and the amount of content out there is more than it’s ever been. To quote Bilbo “butter being scraped over too much bread” might come into play on some level. Speaking from a personal POV, I know it’s affected me. It’s probably just a typical existential crisis though

 

[Khev]

The irony being that AM2 was more crucial to the plot of Endgame

So true, lol. AM2 and TDW more critical pre-EG viewing than CM.

 

[jye4ever]

AntMan low rider horn > CM haircut

 

[Wor-Gar]

CM was 'the great lie' by Marvel to trick you into believing significance to EG but what was really happening was them trying to hook you into the MCU vol 2 plan. Trying to create a new anchor -- a female Cap -- for the next 10 years. Maybe they'll get another 5 before a new plan is made.

 

[darthviper107]

I think one of the things is American movies are very preoccupied with why/how things happen and so if you look at the Godzilla movies a bunch of the story is about that, whereas the Japanese movies pretty much ignore that kind of thing.
Things get bogged down trying to explain things too much to where you start questioning how they work even though it's something that's not real/impossible.

 

[Khev]

I think one of the things is American movies are very preoccupied with why/how things happen and so if you look at the Godzilla movies a bunch of the story is about that, whereas the Japanese movies pretty much ignore that kind of thing.
Things get bogged down trying to explain things too much to where you start questioning how they work even though it's something that's not real/impossible.

You definitely haven't seen Shin Godzilla then. 110 minutes of "let's study it's mutations and some random scientist's origami and then schedule committees to decide which schools to close" with five minutes of atomic breath and destruction, lol.

 

[Wor-Gar]

I think one of the things is American movies are very preoccupied with why/how things happen and so if you look at the Godzilla movies a bunch of the story is about that, whereas the Japanese movies pretty much ignore that kind of thing.
Things get bogged down trying to explain things too much to where you start questioning how they work even though it's something that's not real/impossible.

That's interesting. I think American movies used to be less enamored with that -- Bond, Indy, even the first Star Wars never got too much into how it all started; you were just thrust into the middle of an adventure and had to catch up. But over time, it does seem like Origin Stories became more popular as a story structure form and kids seemed to need to know where and why things started. To the point now where everything needs to be connected, even if its stupid -- like Bond's old nemesis now being his step-brother. Hell, if they made Raiders now, Toht would be Indy's uncle.

 

[Biojex]

CM was 'the great lie' by Marvel to trick you into believing significance to EG but what was really happening was them trying to hook you into the MCU vol 2 plan. Trying to create a new anchor -- a female Cap -- for the next 10 years. Maybe they'll get another 5 before a new plan is made.

True, but it can also be partially attributed to the fact that he script for CM was written after Endgame.

I think one of the things is American movies are very preoccupied with why/how things happen and so if you look at the Godzilla movies a bunch of the story is about that, whereas the Japanese movies pretty much ignore that kind of thing.
Things get bogged down trying to explain things too much to where you start questioning how they work even though it's something that's not real/impossible.

Yeah. American script writers have an obsession with that dirty word “grounding”. Which honestly, I think they did a decent job with Godzilla. They didn’t try to overindulge in the realism and it ended up working for me. The Hollow Earth aspect works for me.

 

[jye4ever]

Joker

Spoiler

shares the same father with Bruce in the new movie lol

 

[Chakor]

Joker

Spoiler

shares the same father with Bruce in the new movie lol

Yuck.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Joker

Spoiler

shares the same father with Bruce in the new movie lol

This will all seem really silly one day in the future.

I'm old school, I like the old franchises that were literally "further adventures" with a new girl, a new villain and a relatively new plot every movie and very little reference to the past. You could watch any Bond or Indy movie back in the day in any order and never feel like you missed something. They didn't necessarily have an order other than you could tell by the actor's age. It crept more into Indy after the first two sequels, but didn't hit Bond much for decades (other than the loss of his wife reference and chasing Blofeld for a couple movies in order).

The MCU is basically the exact opposite of that in almost every way.

 

[MaulFan]

I think one of the things is American movies are very preoccupied with why/how things happen and so if you look at the Godzilla movies a bunch of the story is about that, whereas the Japanese movies pretty much ignore that kind of thing.
Things get bogged down trying to explain things too much to where you start questioning how they work even though it's something that's not real/impossible.

What's interesting about this, and I agree, is that I feel like KOTM actually breaks from that. Godzilla 2014 definitely focused on this, but I feel like KOTM dropped you pretty much into a situation with a lot of things unanswered persay. We don't know much about Jonah's organization or their motives, we just jump into them acting on them. There's not much about the back story of monsters or those showing up, just some brief allusions based on mythology mainly. I think this is what makes it fun and feel more like a classic Toho and less like a typical American movie and maybe that's where it's losing people and critics. You either have to have some sort of mindless viewing appeal like a Transformers, or have a thorough plot like a comic movie to succeed and unfortunately KOTM falls somewhere in between the two and there's no market for that. The market is very black and white, you're either serious and detailed enough, or you're mindless and almost lacking any need for brain function, anything in the grey doesn't do well.

 

[MaulFan]

The MCU is basically the exact opposite of that in almost every way.

The MCU took a comic/television series structure and brought it to film, and as you've mentioned before, doing so with the level of success they did was no small feat, however, on a subliminal level it's also shaping the way films are watched and what audiences are looking for.

Legendary is trying with the MonsterVerse, unfortunately, you can't give giant monsters the level of character development that the comic heroes got in the MCU, and those who you can, in this case Monarch, are not the focus of the stories. They're trying to keep up in an MCU world with a subject matter that doesn't lend itself to that, but I applaud their recognition of it.

Granted, Godzilla had a basic cinematic universe during the Showa era long before comics, but nowhere to today's level and format, and I don't think it was any factor in the success and failure of the films. For example, Monster Zero acknowledges that Godzilla, Rodan and Ghidorah crossed paths in the previous film, but ultimately, it doesn't play into the plot beyond the people of Planet X being able to play off how it took Rodan and Godzilla together to drive Ghidorah away. Outside of that, the previous encounter had nothing to do with the current.

 

[darthviper107]

You definitely haven't seen Shin Godzilla then. 110 minutes of "let's study it's mutations and some random scientist's origami and then schedule committees to decide which schools to close" with five minutes of atomic breath and destruction, lol.

They're occupied with what's happening at the time rather than where it came from.

 

[jye4ever]

Dougherty has to be fuming over that WB executive statement he just has to be.

I think Mike Dougherty’s career has arrived at Gareth Edwards jump off point.

 

[Rotfish]

I would've at least liked some additional style to KOTM. Maybe some cool personality moments or action scenes for the human characters (Serizawa's scene was the only one that grabbed me on the level of).

Kong: Skull Island has a lot more to it, though it still manages to remain a popcorn flick. It's got some interesting cinematography, editing, and color grading (very poppy, graphic novel-esque) and even if the human story isn't Academy caliber, the characters hold some interest with their personalities. As usual with these WB kaiju films, the A-list actors aren't used to their full potential, but John Goodman's character does bring some of that Goodman comfiness. Sam Jackson's has that stone-cold attitude. And John C. Reilly's WW2 vet, the character we thought would be the most cringe-worthy, is actually the most charming to watch. We also have great action featuring the humans, like Tom Hiddleston's gas mask katana fight with the bugs. Even the words -- "gasmask katana fight" -- evoke kooky, pulpy comic book imagery.

The humans in KOTM? Nothing. Charles Dance's character has barely any lines in his first few scenes, he's just a generic baddie with no personality. Chandler, Farmiga, and the military characters, all of their plot-progressing dialogue is written with the same tone and diction (you could plug anyone in, even B- or C-listers and the experience wouldn't change). Any attempts at kooky humor or charisma are betrayed by the fact that there's no personality to contextualize those zany lines in the rest of the movie. Literally the only points of interest in KOTM are the monster battles, but they're obscured in a monochromatic haze. Godzilla 2014? We had daylight scenes with neutral lighting that looked great. Kong: Skull Island? Again, loads of daylight for many of the creature shots including the final battle. KOTM? Dark blue and red hazes. I might as well have been watching the anime.

I can't defend KOTM when Kong: Skull Island stayed in the same gray zone of sophistication and felt so much more inspired and enjoyable. Audience disinterest aside, KOTM is simply bland IMHO. It's got some nice still imagery, enough for a beautiful series of paintings, but the rest of the film is hollow even for a monster mash.

The critics are right. And as a side note, they preferred Skull Island as well. So what's the excuse?

 

[spindrift]

None- KOTM was to me, mostly flat. Not enough really great Godzilla action to overcome the awful "human" stories. Not faulting that for the poor box office- we here aren't just into Big G at all as far as the masses-I predicted it would flop and got slammed by the Big G fans...

 

[JAWS]

So I went to see it for a second viewing.

My views that have not changed since my first viewing.

1. Trailers showed way too much
2. Final fight needed to be more focused on the monsters. Especially when you spoil so much of it in the advertising
3. Godzilla is indeed the King of the monsters. He is done pretty much perfectly
4. The sub scene is the worst part of the film. Takes forever to get to what they need to do. Seems to take forever anyways. Its probably the longest the movie goes without any monster action and you can tell.
5. First Godzilla vs Ghidorah fight is the best part of the movie IMO and reminded me the most of classic Toho monster fights.
6. Monster roars are so loud I cant hardly hear the music and thus really have to strain to hear the iconic themes.
7. Its a fast 2 hours.

What I picked up the 2nd time
1. I pretty much like everyone on the Monarch team. Sure there is not much too them but all are likable enough.
2. The mom is just a bit too evil to deserve any kind of redemption arc. People kept dying and I kept thinking its her fault. I really hated her and her logic the 2nd time through.



So again I really enjoyed it but it left me just a bit disappointed in the lack of a truly great monster battle at the end of the film. There needed to be a bit more Bang for your Buck. Give the final battle 5 extra min of just extra monster action and its a much much better Godzilla experience.

 

[jye4ever]

Well the movie bombed so I fully expect a real 4K release with proper Imax ratios, 3D, extended cut in a cool steelbook with lenticular inserts and mini art book....with a Godzilla figurine.....and KG battle diorama....snow globe.

 

[Chakor]

2. The mom is just a bit too evil to deserve any kind of redemption arc. People kept dying and I kept thinking its her fault. I really hated her and her logic the 2nd time through.

This keeps sounding worse and worse.