Gun collecting

[FlyAndFight]

This thread could get ugly... Americans and their guns and their right to bare arms!

When was the last time the King or England walked into your house???

There's no need for this thread to get ugly if only facts are shared. After Australia's gun ban, violent crimes have drastically risen. I understand that even "ceremonial swords" have been banned as well...

The right to self-defense, like in Great Britain and Canada, is not recognized in Australia. A fundamental freedom was extinguished from you and sadly you don't acknowledge or apparently understand that travesty. A country who has fought for the freedoms of others is now stripped of the one freedom that guarantees all others.

To my fellow countrymen, don't be fooled into thinking that it can't happen here as well.

Mikey speaks the truth, a 9mm will not drop a man when hit center mass. It will most likely take several shots. A .40 can, but a .45 WILL lay someone down. There is a reason that bullet is big, bulky and ugly.

Also, there are very few agencies anymore that carry 9mm, most are .40 and some departments are reissuing the 1911 .45.

Ugghh... The old 9mm vs .45 debate. It's probably the most talked about topic in handgun discussions. So much misinformation being provided that it's almost impossible to separate the facts from the emotions. My advice is whenever you hear/read the words, "Best" or "man-stopper" or "one shot, one kill" type of answers, run away... Not directing this at you, slynger.

No pistol cartridge is really the wondrous "man-stopper" that we think and want it to be. Basically, unless you hit something truly biologically vital and/or structural, the "bad-guy" may keep on coming. Don't rule out the psychological aspect as well. Getting shot is an emotional trauma as well.

Bottom line is both will do the job if you hit where you aim. Pick the one you shoot best and train properly with it. Caliber is only one small part of picking the "best" defensive round.

Pray that you are never placed in a situation where you are called to use it. But if so, I sincerely hope that you have sufficient training in defending yourself and your loved ones.

 

[slynger]

no worries here, F&F - I'm not saying a 9mm won't protect you, just saying "I believe" a .45 will do a better job.

Also, a lot of people don't take into account that adrenaline kicks in and makes people do crazy/amazing things. This goes for both the shooter and the unfortunate receiver. Training is the key.

What gets me is how a lot of people think all it takes is strapping a gun on and *BOOM* you are ready to take on any threat!! Soooo, not true!!

 

[Mikey2Bullets]

There's no need for this thread to get ugly if only facts are shared. After Australia's gun ban, violent crimes have drastically risen. I understand that even "ceremonial swords" have been banned as well...

The right to self-defense, like in Great Britain and Canada, is not recognized in Australia. A fundamental freedom was extinguished from you and sadly you don't acknowledge or apparently understand that travesty. A country who has fought for the freedoms of others is now stripped of the one freedom that guarantees all others.

To my fellow countrymen, don't be fooled into thinking that it can't happen here as well.




Ugghh... The old 9mm vs .45 debate. It's probably the most talked about topic in handgun discussions. So much misinformation being provided that it's almost impossible to separate the facts from the emotions. My advice is whenever you hear/read the words, "Best" or "man-stopper" or "one shot, one kill" type of answers, run away... Not directing this at you, slynger.

No pistol cartridge is really the wondrous "man-stopper" that we think and want it to be. Basically, unless you hit something truly biologically vital and/or structural, the "bad-guy" may keep on coming. Don't rule out the psychological aspect as well. Getting shot is an emotional trauma as well.

Bottom line is both will do the job if you hit where you aim. Pick the one you shoot best and train properly with it. Caliber is only one small part of picking the "best" defensive round.

Pray that you are never placed in a situation where you are called to use it. But if so, I sincerely hope that you have sufficient training in defending yourself and your loved ones.

no worries here, F&F - I'm not saying a 9mm won't protect you, just saying "I believe" a .45 will do a better job.

Also, a lot of people don't take into account that adrenaline kicks in and makes people do crazy/amazing things. This goes for both the shooter and the unfortunate receive. Training is the key.

What gets me is how a lot of people think all it takes is strapping a gun on and *BOOM* you are ready to take on any threat!! Soooo, not true!!

for great insight al the way around.

the only reason i applaud the .45 so much is personal experience. before kicking doors in the sandbox, i was an avid 9mm guy. but after seeing indigenous personnel getting shot with m9's at close range and still shoot back before bleeding out vs seeing others getting shot at similar ranges with 1911's, getting knocked off their feet or doubled over and then finished off before they could get back up.

than being said, i still stick to the .556 even though there are mathematically better knock down rounds for carbines these days. it's comfortable for me to pull off head shots at 200m with out much effort, never mind how easy reflex double taps are for me at cqb ranges. personal taste i guess.

having been shot, i can also say that in the moment, emotion DID go out the window and everything became logic. i remember actually calculating how long i had before i bled out (the round nicked a small artery in my wrist/hand), i was also trying to keep track of my team as we broke contact, and squish my hand into my crotch to keep pressure to stem the squirt of blood. afterwards is a much different story. i went through a gamut of emotions, but that's another topic all together.


ps
i've also been peppered with enemy mortars, friendly danger close arty and CAS, broken nose from a roundhouse kick to the face, fractured ankle from a bad night jump, stress fractures from walking 30 miles in 9 hours, and had my eyebrows singed while futzing with the company's BBQ. all i need is to be stabbed and i get a free toaster. :chew

 

[FlyAndFight]

no worries here, F&F - I'm not saying a 9mm won't protect you, just saying "I believe" a .45 will do a better job.

Also, a lot of people don't take into account that adrenaline kicks in and makes people do crazy/amazing things. This goes for both the shooter and the unfortunate receiver. Training is the key.

What gets me is how a lot of people think all it takes is strapping a gun on and *BOOM* you are ready to take on any threat!! Soooo, not true!!

So true, slynger. To see a perfect example of this, just attend the next gun show in your area and do some people watching. You'll find all types but the ones that make me shake my head are those that you described perfectly.

Excellent point regarding adrenaline. Don't forget the possibilities of drugs and/or alcohol in the Bad Guy's system.

for great insight al the way around.

the only reason i applaud the .45 so much is personal experience. before kicking doors in the sandbox, i was an avid 9mm guy. but after seeing indigenous personnel getting shot with m9's at close range and still shoot back before bleeding out vs seeing others getting shot at similar ranges with 1911's, getting knocked off their feet or doubled over and then finished off before they could get back up.

than being said, i still stick to the .556 even though there are mathematically better knock down rounds for carbines these days. it's comfortable for me to pull off head shots at 200m with out much effort, never mind how easy reflex double taps are for me at cqb ranges. personal taste i guess.

having been shot, i can also say that in the moment, emotion DID go out the window and everything became logic. i remember actually calculating how long i had before i bled out (the round nicked a small artery in my wrist/hand), i was also trying to keep track of my team as we broke contact, and squish my hand into my crotch to keep pressure to stem the squirt of blood. afterwards is a much different story. i went through a gamut of emotions, but that's another topic all together.


ps
i've also been peppered with enemy mortars, friendly danger close arty and CAS, broken nose from a roundhouse kick to the face, fractured ankle from a bad night jump, stress fractures from walking 30 miles in 9 hours, and had my eyebrows singed while futzing with the company's BBQ. all i need is to be stabbed and i get a free toaster. :chew

Mikey, when you write, I pay attention. You not only have invaluable first-hand knowledge in real-life shootings but on being shot as well. I thank you for your service and am truly glad that you have recovered from your wounds, my friend.

Let me start by saying that I am in no way an expert. With that in mind, one thing I do wish to point out is that you are probably comparing the effects of .45 and 9mm "FMJ" rounds in the sandbox.* Taking into consideration the excellent HP ammo available today (such as Federal Tactical and HST and Speer Gold Dot) either caliber is going to do some significant damage, regardless.

Just want to conclude by saying that this is one of the best threads here at the Freaks board and it's not even about collectibles (toys) per se!

I truly appreciate the great discussion, guys.


*whereas there is a much greater probability of the faster moving 9mm FMJ round going right through a thin bad guy (as long as no bone is hit) than a slower moving and slightly bigger .45 FMJ round. I believe this was one of the complaints that I've heard regarding the 5.56 FMJ compared to the 7.62 x 51 as well. I may be way out of my lane on this, so don't quote me...

 

[creature4000]

amen!!!!! I'm new to this... wish I could have done more, but I can't change that. Mikey2Bullets is an outstanding freak!

 

[bonedaddy77]

The gun bug is getting me lately. Loving this thread.

Looking at the following and need to hit up local gun shop to get a feel.

9mm
HK P30
Sig P226 combat or blackwater

.45
HK45c
Sig P220 combat

Sig P556 looks fun and then there is the Benelli M4 tactical shotgun.

 

[Mikey2Bullets]

thanks guys for the comments. i really don't deserve them. everything i've put forward can be found in any gun magazine or soldier of fortune. ironically, i don't read any of them. i'd end up re-upping and losing my awesome wife.

too true about the hydra shocks, all we used were tungsten green ball, HEDP, and API. i did pop a .45 hydra shock into my steel fireplace during a temper tantrum. it flattened out to a kennedy half dollar.

another observation i had on ballistics, i may have hit on this before as well, i can't remember.

having been hit with a 7.62 round, it was like getting kicked in the nuts. i felt the blow but no pain, but after a few seconds the pain grew into something like bad frostbite or when you stub a toe when your feet are cold. but the entry and exit were fairly tame. one of my buds told me months after the fact that the round went thru the humvee door, the plexiglass window (it was rolled down), me, my rifle (propped up on the console) and was embedded in the radio mount. the guy was across the euphrates maybe 150m away.

a guy i knew got hit with friendly fire from an m4 thru a plywood wall in our shoot house. one round entered in his wrist and traveled up his radius/ulna and came out his bicept. his arm split like a hot dog that was cooked too long. the second round went thru and thru his love handle just below the armor. the entry looked like a tiny track mark, the exit was the size of a silver dollar and as deep as a small measuring cup.

one of my favorite moments, haji (dont go PC on me, it's what we call em, no offense intended) was running down the road with a pkm. we had a .50 sniper with us. took the shot at 400m dude split in half. HEDP round to the torso.

bonedaddy

i may be wrong on this but i think the blackwater sig is just a sig p226 with a logo on it and a slightly larger price tag. i looked at one a few years back but never committed.

either way sig or HK are great guns. i've shot both extensively at bragg.

 

[P1X4R]

What gets me is how a lot of people think all it takes is strapping a gun on and *BOOM* you are ready to take on any threat!! Soooo, not true!!

correct! unless you're shooting a revolver which is practically ready to go once you load it unlike a pistol which needs a round to be chambered in first. i still want a revolver some day. either a S&W 625 or M325 both in .45ACP. unfortunately they only hold 6 rounds max but using pre-loaded moon clips may help in faster loading.

 

[Beerbelly Bob]

Cool a gun thread. This is one addicting hobby....I love it.

 

[Big Daddy Kel]

Does anyone know if magnum 00 buckshot will work in a normal 12 ga shotgun? I got it by mistake at Wal Mart the other day.

 

[Darth Cruel]

ah, you're not too far from me, relatively speaking.

false, unless they were ww2/korea vets. in all the victory chaos it was easy to send your guns home or have family send you a backup gun in the post.

today you can't even leave the company area without paperwork for your weapon. you have to sign for it every time it leaves the arms room. and turn in copies of said paperwork when you turn in the weapon. the only thing weapon wise i have leftover is a bunch of 30 rd mags. we had a guy in our unit who was sent a sawed off to him in iraq, they busted him hard and drummed him out of the army, then filed criminal charges against his dad, whom had sent him the gun.

now a days with the rise in "fraggin" (fratricide) weapon accountability is even worse.

funny story, when i was evac'd after taking a bullet, the air force made me turn in my leatherman and my civie boot knife for the flight, BUT, they had no problem with the two frag grenades on my assault vest.

Sucks to hear this. In desert storm, if it shot NATO rounds and was registered at the armory, it was in play. I took my Taurus 9mm with me. Thought about taking my SPAS 12, but figured everything would be long-range anyway as I was tasked with security for the Alpha Command Group for our battalion.

This thread could get ugly... Americans and their guns and their right to bare arms!

When was the last time the King or England walked into your house???

This thread won't get ugly unless someone comes in and makes it ugly.

 

[Beerbelly Bob]

I'm a collector of 1911 pistols and I'm also somewhat of an H&K freak.

 

[Shai]

 

[creature4000]

Lennon Rocks!

 

[pmtz2005]

nice arsenal you have there pmtz2005! i've been eyeing Benelli shotguns. quite pricey but they're so niiiice! i already have 500 rounds of 00 buckshot stored away for it.

Thank you sir. I've never shot a benelli before but I've heard so many good things about them. This is the video that turned me on . Im gonna have to stock up on ammo too. Its fun to shoot but I HATE the cleaning afterwards
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Here's another crazy vid...so much firepower...
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[Mikey2Bullets]

i bet he wishes he had one when he met mark david chapman.

 

[Darth Cruel]

pmtz2005 - Those videos remind me of when I took my Spas to a fam fire at a Marine Corps range. At first, the RSO was not going to let me take it up to the line. Then he saw it and immediately had me take it to the armorer for an LTI. It was hard to get the Marines to kepp firing with the 870's after that.

We put a 3 or 4 hundred rounds through it that day.

 

[pmtz2005]

pmtz2005 - Those videos remind me of when I took my Spas to a fam fire at a Marine Corps range. At first, the RSO was not going to let me take it up to the line. Then he saw it and immediately had me take it to the armorer for an LTI. It was hard to get the Marines to kepp firing with the 870's after that.

We put a 3 or 4 hundred rounds through it that day.

Nice!! I can imagine the look on the range officers face . I know the 870's are pretty popular themselves. Those and the mossbergs. What shotgun did you take to the range?

 

[Darth Cruel]

Nice!! I can imagine the look on the range officers face . I know the 870's are pretty popular themselves. Those and the mossbergs. What shotgun did you take to the range?

My Spas 12

 

[pmtz2005]

My Spas 12

oh