HBO's House of the Dragon

[MeatHookGekko]

I'm not trying to call you out specifically but it drives me absolutely nuts how many people are saying this. Yes, in real life, that's what you'd do. But if it played out like that in the show, that's it - show and story are over. Sometimes it seems like people don't realize these are just stories and you're allowed to have cool things happen and still have the plot go forward.

Personally, I'm hoping they run with Rhaenys stating she let them live because she's not a Kingslayer and that wasn't her decision to make.

In terms of writing convention, several thing are happening at once

- Rhaenys doesn't want the Iron Throne. She sees it as a burden ( She's right) but her primary goal is to avoid having the whole of the Driftmark dragged into yet another senseless war. However, while Rhaenyra's children are not real Velaryon, the grandkids with Daemon and her deceased daughter are and that's a problem. Alicent and Otto going after Daemon means also going after those kids. Because the Targaryan blood means any of them are potential future dragon riders.

"Auntie"s position was to show threat, to say "Leave me alone, leave the Driftmark alone" but that's not possible. Otto will have her killed and anyone else killed until someone who comes into power who will back Queen Alicent in a war.

- If "Auntie" torched everyone on that stage, it would have been seen as "taking the Iron Throne", meaning complete psychopaths like Rhaenyra and Daemon would still wage war on her eventually for it. By not torching the stage, Otto can say Rhaenys attacked and tried to steal the throne to the people and justify a war against the Driftmark.

- The last issue is the threat of that dragon was to show Alicent to not show any mercy. The correct decision was to kill Rhaenys, so her idiot son could take that dragon and arm their kingdom with yet another dragon. The way to win the war is who has the most dragons and who can use those dragons the best. By wavering, Alicent almost got her entire family killed.

Even if everyone on that stage got burned alive, there would still be a war. BUT the difference is there would be fewer people to try to kill Rhaenys grandchildren and Daemon, for the sake of his own children, would have cause to try to negotiate with "Auntie".

The lynchpin issue is Laenor is still alive and eventually he'll be needed because he can ride a dragon. I get that his issues and conflicts are complicated. But he tricked his parents into thinking he was dead and murdered and the "killing" was unavenged. What a horrible thing to do to your parents, just really ugly honestly.

I say "Kill Everyone" because all roads lead to killing them all anyway. Just more expensive if you wait. Expensive as in your own blood family being killed one by one as time goes on and lingers.

 

[ArtDamage]

To me the reason was in their scene together.

"...and yet you toil still in the service of men. Your Father, Your husband, your son. You desire not to be free, but to make a window in the wall of your prison. Have you never imagined yourself on the iron throne?"

Rhaenys saw Allicent at the front of the group and felt sympathy for her as a fellow prisoner of fate with little power.

 

[davejames]

I think it was less about sympathy for Allicent and more just about making a statement-- that what they're doing is incredibly wrong and they're about to end up suffering greatly for it. Roasting them all alive would have been way too quick and easy a punishment for such a huge betrayal.

 

[karamazov80]

There was some ambiguity in her action, particularly given her prior conversation with Alicent where she showed empathy, and even mild support for Alicent taking the throne herself. I suspect that conversation impacted the decision not to kill everyone there. But perhaps Rhaenys also sees some potential value for herself, her family, and the kingdom as a whole by allowing the conflict to proceed (I don't know how she couldn't hate Rhaenyra at this point for thinking she conspired to have her son murdered, so that's something). . .she isn't a fortune teller, so that perspective could be wrong.

But without knowing where this goes, I personally think that scene was a bit over the top. Exploding from the floor, looking scary, and then flying off is a bit overly unbelievably theatrical (would fit more naturally into that Lord of the Rings show. . .). But, fine. Really loving this show as a whole. The Larys foot scene was truly unexpected, which you can't say much about with a Game of Thrones show

 

[davejames]

Yeah it was a bit OTT but still an incredibly powerful moment, as we got to see Rhaenys stare down and put the fear of god in these people who spent the last hour plotting and scheming to overthrow the rightful heir to the throne and steal power. And to me it didn't feel like a cheap stunt at all.

 

[MeatHookGekko]

Yeah it was a bit OTT but still an incredibly powerful moment, as we got to see Rhaenys stare down and put the fear of god in these people who spent the last hour plotting and scheming to overthrow the rightful heir to the throne and steal power. And to me it didn't feel like a cheap stunt at all.

How many people were killed though by the hard contact with the dragon and from all those falling boulders/bricks/stones?

If Rhaenys killed everyone on that stage, she could say she was defending the kingdom and they plotted to kill her brother and assassinated him. Then she could take the Iron Throne and release it to Rhaenyra or keep it herself.

By attacking, not killing everyone on stage and leaving, now Alicent and Otto can say Rhaenys tried to steal the throne, look how she tried to kill civilians. It drags the entire Driftmark into long protracted war. Also Aemond was on that stage. He's a dragon rider. How much death will he bring to the Driftmark by being allowed to live?

It was poor decision making on her part. Killing innocents then feigning a desire to be on the outside of all the political conflict doesn't add up.

So where this is interesting is during Varys and his last conversation with Ned Stark, he told him that his "compassion" is what ended up getting King Robert killed. Ned Stark was unwilling to do the hard thing. ( Kill Joffrey, Tommen, Myrcella, Jaime, Cersei all at once when he found out and blamed it on Littlefinger and Janos Slynt and Pycelle) In the end, that failure got Robb and his wife killed. Also later it it got his youngest son killed with Ramsey Bolton's arrow. It got Sansa raped over and over again and sold off again and again as political capital. It forced Arya to run and become a killer.

This was foreshadowed when the Small Council told Ned that sending assassins after Dany was the quick and easy and would create the least long term pain for the entire kingdom. Ned of course argued against it. His "honor" did what exactly? This is why I believe people loved The Hound. He did only as much as he had to do, that was inevitable, nothing more, and no matter how ugly it got, but he understood that it wasn't a choice if he wanted to survive.

Sometimes there is no "right choice" Sometimes it's just two options. One is ugly and painful and horrible. The other is worse and bloody and repugnant. "Honor" is a luxury when you can afford it. When you can't, my take is kill everyone who is a threat to you and your family.

 

[davejames]

I don't get the sense any of these people care much what happens to the civilians they rule over. And I'll be surprised if the deaths in this episode even get mentioned again.

 

[Jmek]

Excellent episode, that had me literally shouting a the screen at the treachery and murder on display. Marred slightly by the dragon scene, which though looked magnificent was over the top. Sometimes less is more.

 

[jye4ever]

Holy crap the entire ending has leaked online stay away!

Hollywood is truly under copyright attack.

 

[Asta]

Holy crap the entire ending has leaked online stay away!

Hollywood is truly under copyright attack.

So that explains why the final episode was online yesterday morning.

 

[chrisstbh]

Breaking news guys

 

[Deeznutz6]

Watched it… good but tough to shock any GOT viewer any more

 

[MeatHookGekko]

Excellent episode, that had me literally shouting a the screen at the treachery and murder on display. Marred slightly by the dragon scene, which though looked magnificent was over the top. Sometimes less is more.

Something I considered about "Dragon Riders" is a mounted cross bow unit for the human on the saddle. Obviously a few small arrows won't hurt a dragon, even a small one, but they will saturate and kill another Dragon Rider in a Dragon Vs Dragon type battle. You kill the Rider, you neutralize control of said dragon.

If that one person had a cross bow in that hall, he could have ended the fight there. Shot him dead, starting the war be damned. In effect, trading himself as a "hostage" for neutralizing one of the "Greens" major dragons.

Or he could have taken out the One Eyed Rider, or attempted to do so, to even the odds.

My thinking now is two fold

1) House Velaryon is only a fringe ally at best. The parents believe Rhaenyra killed their son Laenor. Also Daemon, while the father of their grandchildren, killed Big Daddy's brother with the head chop. Even sick and with a cane, it's clear the "ambition" for the throne is not gone. He's hoping Rhaenyra and Alicent kill each other away to the point where he can install his wife as true heir, but he would be the "de facto" King. By siding with Rhaenyra, he evens out the odds to do so. If he sided with Alicent, it would be a quick end and eventually Otto would go after his grand children. If he sided with no one, the eventual winner would still go after him anyway later.

2) This is the point where "greyscale" should be weaponized. Just infect the "Greens" with greyscale. That will even out the battle ranks naturally.

Obviously some of the plot has to be contrived to keep the conflict going. Once Viserys was clearly near the end, there is no way Rhaenyra and Daemon would wait far away to be told about his death. They would have installed themselves and a large force immediately. Had Daemon fill the ranks of the "City Guard" with those loyal to him. Had dragons ready. Had assassins ready to kill Alicent's children. A lot of the unforced errors are built around the perception of a childhood friendship with Alicent and Rhaenyra, and it's not entirely practical in the world building, but they are also trapped by GRRM's canon as well.

I usually don't speak out my preferences, but good God is Olivia Cooke stunning. ( But if I was in the HOTD world, I'd still assassinate Alicent though and her entire family. Nuke them from orbit, as they say, just to be sure. This is a fatal flaw of Westeros apparently, people get horny and it clouds their reason to actually make the best decision to survive)

 

[Wor-Gar]

Enjoying Aemond.

 

[ObiGlennKenobi]

Enjoying Aemond.

Same!!
He is a nasty **** alright .
Although his scare tactics did backfire.
Can see where next season will kick off from now.

It was an epic ending.

Can do with out the childbirth scenes though now please.

Daemon is also so unpredictable that I love watching Matt Smith act.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Daemon, Aemond, Otto and Alicent really hold the show together for me.

 

[karamazov80]

Great episode, love the glare at the end, but not enough childbirth this season. Hopefully we'll get more next year.

 

[ArtDamage]

Having now seen the finale, I stick by my original quote:

If you remove all the child birthing scenes IT IS relatively bloodless

I will say though, the show won me back! I was feeling down on the show with all the time jumps and petty high school drama, but you know, now that things have officially kicked off I'm really into it.

Lots of little threads set up for next season, some great action and tension. My hopes for next season are a little more of the other Houses and how they deal with the conflict within the House of Dragon. All in all looking forward to its return

 

[RandomHero]

Really loved the last three episodes this season. First season was clearly a lot of backstory to get to the Dance of Dragons but that should be kicking off at full speed to begin season two.

I thought the line that Viserys said to Rhaenyra back in the first episode, "the idea that we control the dragons is an illusion", was cool but I thought it was no more than a throwaway line. Now we got to see that, just like a horse or dog, the dragons are still beasts that will act on their own accord when threatened. I certainly didn't expect Vhagar to eat Arryx like he was a chicken finger, damn that was cool.

Deamon, Aemond, Alicent, Rhaenyra and Otto stood out for me in this season. Was certainly a fan of Ser Harrold and Ser Erryk at the end too. Wish we got to spend more time with them. And as creepy as he was, the actor who played Larys did a great job. What a weirdo.

 

[RandomHero]

Overall, I think GOT had better characters and dialogue in it's first season, but that first season also moved at a much slower pace where the story didn't need to fly by. There was a lot more intrigue as Ned Stark was attempting to put the pieces together on Joffrey and get Stannis on the Throne.

But HOTD has better costuming, sets, props and CGI and therefore the show has come off as such a spectacle. It's a shame GOT didn't have this budget to enhance the world a bit more in the first season. But, this show has really made Westeros feel alive and exciting right off the bat and I'm grateful for it.

I'm just really happy this universe has hit so many home runs with it's casting above all else. So many good performances.