Health Care Discussion

[devilof76]

Can you exclude yourself from protection by the national military? Or from having access to clean air and water? Or from using interstates (I suppose you could do that one, but it would be difficult. . .)? And I wonder if you have to pay more for food otherwise subsidized by the government if you opt out of paying taxes. . .

I was speaking more in terms of entitlement programs. The government does far more than it is mandated to, and I resent paying for what I never asked for.

That includes subsidizing farmers.

 

[The Mike]

You're probably right Karamazov but my bene cost went from $250 per month to $516 on January 1. I'm not that hopeful in my insurance company that they won't raise rates by that much next January whether its posturing or not.

 

[karamazov80]

That sucks. Most analysts I've seen tend to agree that private insurance costs are, in the short term, definitely going up, but a 2 fold increase is ridiculous. The hope is longer-term--that all of this is going to eventually lead to a more affordable health care system than we would have without it.

But I'm not fully convinced that is the case. Just like the gun deaths issue from the other thread, though, there is something about health care in this country that needs attention and work. And for the sake of our kids (and ourselves when we get older), I hope someone can figure it out sooner rather than later.

If nothing else, I applaud Obama for at least having the will to get something passed. Previous administrations either lacked the spine or the political capital to do that. Now, at least the issues are laid out there and folks can work on finding the best solutions.

 

[The Josh]

But I'm not fully convinced that is the case. Just like the gun deaths issue from the other thread, though, there is something about health care in this country that needs attention and work. And for the sake of our kids (and ourselves when we get older), I hope someone can figure it out sooner rather than later.

If nothing else, I applaud Obama for at least having the will to get something passed. Previous administrations either lacked the spine or the political capital to do that. Now, at least the issues are laid out there and folks can work on finding the best solutions.

Thats a pretty good way of putting it.

 

[Jason13]

Well My wife Has a Job with health care for Both of us and I also Have the VA from the Military .Her Insurance is outrageous and well the VA MMMM Not so great But I got it.

 

[agen_kolar]

I look at the health care bill as a triumph from the standpoint that Obama had the balls and the ability to change the status quo. Will it remain in its current state forever? No. It will certainly be changed over and over, probably indefinitely, but I'm glad there's a start to the problem at hand.

And the term "Obamacare" makes me wanna punch people.

 

[Shatterer of Dreams]

I worked for Blue Cross of California for 5 years and I can tell you that they do not pay out as much as they tell people they pay out (we rejected a crap load of claims and even the ones that go through usually fall under the deductible so it still up to the customer). There is a reason why BC of Cali is currently under investigation - corrupt through and through.

One of the things that can happen in California when it comes to raising rates, is that rates can be raised every six months as long as it was approved by the state (and it was always approved by the state), I can't even honestly tell you how many rate hikes were instituted while I worked there but it was a lot.

I can't speak for other states; but in Cali at least, the system is out of control and in favor of the insurance companies (which is why I quit, living off of blood money eventually got to me) and I can tell you that all the hikes that went through now because of "Obamacare" is because they can get away with it right now - I still have many friends at BC so I still hear all the dirt.

edit: oh yeah, as of the first our rates actually went down, we also have BC.

 

[Kabukiman]

Speaking as somebody who is on an individual insurance plan, rather than a group plan through an employer, I love the current health bill. Knowing that I, or my family, can't be dropped for getting sick gives me the piece of mind the insurance was supposed to give in the first place.

 

[Deeznutz6]

Re: The Right to Responsible Gun Ownership

You're asking the wrong questions. I value just about anything I own over someone else. My family, my possessions, and my health. I will stop at nothing to make sure my loved ones are taken care of.

The problem is people care more about getting a scuff on their air jordans then they so their own health. People care more about getting their tax returns and blowing it on xboxes and shoes and whatever else it is that strikes their fancy.

Then when they get sick they want to know why someone won't pay. Then they blame insurance companies and the government for their own lack of being able to take care of what's important. Their own healthcare! It's a joke!

Our bodies are our most precious gifts and we blame everyone else but ourselves for not taking care of it.

Great thread Josh and awesome post Moonie, your spot on, in Canada we have the worst of both situations, people are not responsible and the rest of us pay for them. So we have crappy health care with high taxes and all kinds of people abusing it.

 

[karamazov80]

Speaking as somebody who is on an individual insurance plan, rather than a group plan through an employer, I love the current health bill. Knowing that I, or my family, can't be dropped for getting sick gives me the piece of mind the insurance was supposed to give in the first place.

Stories like this are why the health reform bill is actually growing in popularity as people get accustomed to the idea and learn more about it. There are drawbacks, as we have discussed, but there are definite benefits as well. Insurance prices in the individual market are obscene, and the coverage you get is usually pretty crappy. Most of us don't take issue because we do get good quality insurance that is subsidized by our employers, but if you don't have that option, you might be in trouble if you get sick or injured. And any of us could be in your shoes in the future. My boss was recently telling me that she had her first child while she was freelancing, and though she paid upwards of $500 a month (this was in the 1990s), the insurance still didn't cover her pregnancy because it was a crap individual market insurance policy.

The idea of a "safety net" sometimes works just as that--something to help us when we fall on hard times or don't have the benefit of working for a large employer that can provide a fancy group insurance plan. Not all of the people that benefit from these kinds of things are freeloaders bilking the system with no intention of being productive or doing what they can to support themselves.

 

[The Josh]

Re: The Right to Responsible Gun Ownership

Great thread Josh and awesome post Moonie, your spot on, in Canada we have the worst of both situations, people are not responsible and the rest of us pay for them. So we have crappy health care with high taxes and all kinds of people abusing it.

No problem. Thread was totally started by accident. Just glad between this and the gun thread it doesn't seem folks hate me anymore for this than they do my stance on our toys.

Seriously, I'm actually really proud both threads have stayed as civil as they have. It shows we can have really good discussions.

 

[BadMoon]

Re: The Right to Responsible Gun Ownership

No problem. Thread was totally started by accident. Just glad between this and the gun thread it doesn't seem folks hate me anymore for this than they do my stance on our toys.

Seriously, I'm actually really proud both threads have stayed as civil as they have. It shows we can have really good discussions.

Couldn't agree more Josh. Glad the mods have chilled for a bit. I know things can get heated. However we have proven that serious topics can be discussed without issue. I see more blatant hate over action figures then these topics. Says a lot IMO.

 

[King Darkness]

Re: The Right to Responsible Gun Ownership

Just glad between this and the gun thread it doesn't seem folks hate me anymore for this than they do my stance on our toys.

Honestly, I dont think its possible for me to hate you anymore than I already did.

 

[The Mike]

 

[The Josh]

Re: The Right to Responsible Gun Ownership

Honestly, I dont think its possible for me to hate you anymore than I already did.

Thanks King.

 

[Jen]

Re: The Right to Responsible Gun Ownership

Couldn't agree more Josh. Glad the mods have chilled for a bit. I know things can get heated. However we have proven that serious topics can be discussed without issue. I see more blatant hate over action figures then these topics. Says a lot IMO.

As long as the topic stays civil then I see no reason why we can't have discussions like this. Many people are passionate about their stance on things - conversations do become heated...but as long as there are no personal attacks and people can remain respectful then there is no reason for threads like this to close.

 

[Anzik]

True health care reform has to come from reducing the cost of healthcare. The current method and the healthcare law only shift who has to pay the bill.
Look at the things that drive the cost, administrative, bureaucratic, lack of competition, excessive malpractice insurance rates. These are some of the things that needlessly make health care so expensive.
People also have to be responsible for themselves. There can't be equal cost and equal coverage for those who eat cheese burgers all day, smoke cigarettes, take drugs, drink too much etc as there are for those who make wiser choices in lifestyle. Its not fair to the person who does it right, to have to pay for the person who doesn't. Just like a person who gets five speeding tickets every year shouldn't pay the same as someone who doesn't get any.
On the other topic, there is no real definition of 'assault weapon'. Fully automatic weapons have been illegal for a long time. Semi automatic weapons are those that need the trigger pulled for each shot, so an old west six shooter is still semi automatic. And yes people have the right to own them but they aren't exactly easy to get in most places. Criminals will always get guns or even make them since its really not hard, so the question is will a criminal rather rob someone who may shoot them or someone they know cannot shoot them? There can't be a cop stationed for every citizen so the citizen has a right to protect himself and the property he has earned.

 

[karamazov80]

I just read a great article about costs in health care reform. He gets at the issue of insurance companies being targeted disproportionately, in lieu of providers, who are really the ones jacking prices up in the system:

https://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Columns/2011/February/020911frakt.aspx

 

[CLU]

Health care??? pffft... Diseases will never be cured because then the pharmaceutical companies that manufacture the medications that only treat the symptoms would go out of business.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

Health care??? pffft... Diseases will never be cured because then the pharmaceutical companies that manufacture the medications that only treat the symptoms would go out of business.

there's no profit in a cure