RoboDad
Super Freak
Since I suspect that I am the poster that was mentioned above, I should probably add my two cents.
First, let me say to Adam that I have appreciated all your comments in this thread, and I sincerely hope you haven't taken anything I have said personally, since no offense was ever intended. I am only trying to participate in this lively discussion. And because of your comments, I have learned several new things about Tolkien's writings that I never knew before. For that I really do thank you!
As far as the rights to The Hobbit, Corwin is quite right. Professor Tolkien sold the rights to The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings way back in 1966. For a fairly in-depth explanation of how they have changed hands over the years, check out this article. However, the key thing is that the rights were sold before the Professor's death, and once his son Christopher took over control of his estate, no further rights have ever been sold, and he has indicated that they never will be. Time will tell whether that will ever change (e.g., will we ever see any of the Silmarillion tales made into films?). So none of the books published posthumously are part of any license.
Next, as to Quest of Erebor, that does get a bit tricky. As anyone who has read the Annotated Hobbit knows, there were three different versions of the story written. As far as I know, version 'A' has never been published. Version 'B' was published in TAH, and version 'C' was published in Unfinished Tales (both posthumously). But, portions culled from versions 'B' and 'C' were published in ROTK Appendix A, section III - Durin's Folk. And, it is widely known that version 'C' had been intended by Tolkien to be included in the appendices, but George Allen and Unwin pulled it due to space limitations. There are even glimpses into it in the first chapter of The Hobbit. Whether that could be used to build a case for allowing it to be used for the construction of the film, who can say?
And finally, I want to be clear on one more point. I never meant to say with any finality what could (or should) be used from Tolkien canon in the production of the films. My only concerns are that adding too much to the story would cause it to cease to be The Hobbit at all, since that narrative flow would be consumed by the larger story, and that I personally don't believe there is enough detail, even among all the canon sources available, to completely flesh out two movies.
Yes, there is certainly more than enough to produce an fantastic outline for the story, but the devil is always in the details. For example, even among Tolkien scholars, there is significant debate about who even made up the White Council. We know the core members, but who else was counted among the Wise?
Earlier today I was scanning through my newly arrived copy of the 70th anniversary Edition, and in just the first chapter, I could see three different cut-away/flashback scenes that Jackson would probably like to add. During Gandalf's lengthy exposition about Thror's kingdom, and how he came to be in possession of Thror's map, I'm certain Jackson will want those events portrayed on-screen (especially the relationship between Thror's people and Dale, the coming of the dragon, and how Gandalf found Thrain in the Necromancer's dungeon). I think those could be welcome additions, but will they overwhelm Bilbo's story?
As you can see, I have more questions than answers, and only time will tell how it all plays out. But it is certainly fun to speculate!
First, let me say to Adam that I have appreciated all your comments in this thread, and I sincerely hope you haven't taken anything I have said personally, since no offense was ever intended. I am only trying to participate in this lively discussion. And because of your comments, I have learned several new things about Tolkien's writings that I never knew before. For that I really do thank you!
As far as the rights to The Hobbit, Corwin is quite right. Professor Tolkien sold the rights to The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings way back in 1966. For a fairly in-depth explanation of how they have changed hands over the years, check out this article. However, the key thing is that the rights were sold before the Professor's death, and once his son Christopher took over control of his estate, no further rights have ever been sold, and he has indicated that they never will be. Time will tell whether that will ever change (e.g., will we ever see any of the Silmarillion tales made into films?). So none of the books published posthumously are part of any license.
Next, as to Quest of Erebor, that does get a bit tricky. As anyone who has read the Annotated Hobbit knows, there were three different versions of the story written. As far as I know, version 'A' has never been published. Version 'B' was published in TAH, and version 'C' was published in Unfinished Tales (both posthumously). But, portions culled from versions 'B' and 'C' were published in ROTK Appendix A, section III - Durin's Folk. And, it is widely known that version 'C' had been intended by Tolkien to be included in the appendices, but George Allen and Unwin pulled it due to space limitations. There are even glimpses into it in the first chapter of The Hobbit. Whether that could be used to build a case for allowing it to be used for the construction of the film, who can say?
And finally, I want to be clear on one more point. I never meant to say with any finality what could (or should) be used from Tolkien canon in the production of the films. My only concerns are that adding too much to the story would cause it to cease to be The Hobbit at all, since that narrative flow would be consumed by the larger story, and that I personally don't believe there is enough detail, even among all the canon sources available, to completely flesh out two movies.
Yes, there is certainly more than enough to produce an fantastic outline for the story, but the devil is always in the details. For example, even among Tolkien scholars, there is significant debate about who even made up the White Council. We know the core members, but who else was counted among the Wise?
Earlier today I was scanning through my newly arrived copy of the 70th anniversary Edition, and in just the first chapter, I could see three different cut-away/flashback scenes that Jackson would probably like to add. During Gandalf's lengthy exposition about Thror's kingdom, and how he came to be in possession of Thror's map, I'm certain Jackson will want those events portrayed on-screen (especially the relationship between Thror's people and Dale, the coming of the dragon, and how Gandalf found Thrain in the Necromancer's dungeon). I think those could be welcome additions, but will they overwhelm Bilbo's story?
As you can see, I have more questions than answers, and only time will tell how it all plays out. But it is certainly fun to speculate!
