Not really, it's the figure thread, not the film discussion thread, don't really see how dialogue from the film or character powers in the film correlates to speculation of a figure? I also was unaware a week is the time threshold for when something is no longer a spoiler...
Well if Superman uses heat vision in the film, which he does, people may speculate whether or not this will be the figure that perhaps includes a heat vision sculpt. If Superman doesn't wear a regeneration suit in the film, which he doesn't, people will know not to expect that figure. Or if Batman has scenes in which he has his suit on but has his mask off, which there is, people will speculate whether or not the regular Batman figure will include an unmasked sculpt or not. Or regarding WW, people may speculate why the figure includes the black cloak, because she doesn't wear it in the film.
So there are things that happened or didn't happen in the film that do relate to speculation involving the figures from that film.
Pretty sure the whole Captain Marvel copyright issue was solved in recent years, I recall that he was referred to as Captain Marvel in the Justice League Unlimited series, as well as some recent DVD releases of the old serial from the...40's? But yeah, the whole issue was pretty silly.
It's weird, thinking back to the time when Marvel was a childish copycat company, and DC were the game-changing trailblazers.
Things have been the complete and utter opposite the past 7 years or so! Honestly, I'm starting to wonder if DC is run by monkeys now.
I believe the situation is that he can be referred to as Captain Marvel within the comic book story, but DC cannot title their comics, “Captain Marvel.” That’s why for years their Captain Marvel comics were titled Shazam. In recent years, DC just changed the character’s name to Shazam to avoid the issue entirely, whereas in the old Captain Marvel comics Shazam was the name of the wizard who gave Billy Batson his powers.
The old Captain Marvel serial is probably exempt from any copyright issues with Marvel comics as its existence pre-dates Marvel or DC owning the name. In fact, Fawcett Comics would have had the rights to the character at the time. They published Captain Marvel comic until 1953. DC aquired the character in 1972.
If I am not mistaken..
The DC sued the captain marvel creator for copying Superman.. Then it goes into bankruptcy, the "captain marvel copyright" expired...
ThenDC acquired the rights to Shazam, that captain marvel name has been copyrighted by Marvel.. So DC went with Shazam.
If I am not mistaken..
The DC sued the captain marvel creator for copying Superman.. Then it goes into bankruptcy, the "captain marvel copyright" expired...
ThenDC acquired the rights to Shazam, that captain marvel name has been copyrighted by Marvel.. So DC went with Shazam.
Yeah, that’s right. DC definitely sued Fawcett, claiming that the Captain Marvel character was too similar to Superman. It’s kind of funny that later they ended up acquiring the rights to the whole Captain Marvel family and using those characters prominently in their own books for years.
Finally saw it on Wednesday. 6/10 for me. While I enjoyed it enough for what it was and will pick it up on digital, I can certainly understand the divisiveness of this movie.
THE GOOD Casting--I still think Warner DC/Snyder knocked it out of the park with their casting choices--Cavill, Affleck, Gadot are stellar, and Mamoa, Miller and Fisher were all good adds. Costumes and Powers -- The costumes look ripped right from the comics. Sure the MCU delivers on costumes for characters like Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, Black Panther, Vision and Spider-Man, others like Scarlet Witch, Falcon and Hawkeye have been somewhat underwhelming. And Fox's X-Men and Fantastic Four have lagged way behind. Cinematography -- Despite the uneveness and dodgy CGI, Snyder knows how to compose gorgeous visuals. They also improved the color grading this time out, although next time out I think they could go with an even more vivid color palette provided they don't have another CGI villain.
THE SO-SO Humor -- They did succeed in lightening the mood, much of which was probably Whedon but I think Snyder had also already lightened it somewhat before having to take a leave of absence (people should not forget how tough this all must have been on him). However, some of the jokes were forced, fell flat or just didn't seem consistent coming out of a character's mouth. The audience at my showing did seem to get and enjoy most of the jokes, but there were also glaring awkward moments. One problem was you could pretty much tell when jokes were inserted. Well written humor needs to flow naturally, as opposed to jokes having to be set up, which takes away from storytelling. CGI -- Yes it was dodgy at times. Steppenwolf looked like a poor video game boss. Cyborg for sure in some scenes, but better in others. I didn't let myself look for the "stash" so it wasn't a distraction. The Old War -- I'm not sure if that was chopped to hell for time or what. It had all the right elements to look epic, but it went by so fast was so choppily edited it fell short. After Credits -- The mid-credit scene was a cool homage, but felt tacked on and seemed like it was shot over a weekend by the b-unit. The second after credits was very cool and a nice possible setup. Cyborg, Flash and Aquaman -- According to reports, all three character got shortchanged by having numerous scenes cut, as a result character development suffered. I really liked what they did with each of them when they were on screen, but their backstories were rushed. I liked Cyborg a lot more than I thought I would. I liked Flash, but not as much as I was expecting. I am definitely looking forward to the Aquaman movie. (and yep, given Mera's limited screen time, she won't be getting a HT fig yet.) Batfleck -- I still think Ben Affleck has given us the best film Batman ever, but parts of this performance seemed phoned in. He seemed less comfortable as Bruce Wayne than he was in BvS, and in some scenes looked overweight. He's been dealing with some personal demons behind the scenes and I think that may have crept into his performance. That said, he needs to commit to the role and stick with it. If not, now is the time to make the announcement and part ways so that a new actor can take over the role. While I know Gyllenhaal has been floated and being 10 years younger, might very well be the right choice. But he's also almost a half foot shorter. I hope others actors are considered. Personally I think John Hamm could be a great choice. He would probably pull off Bruce Wayne even better than Affleck. He's only a year older and at 6'2" he's almost the same height. While he doesn't have Affleck's build, he could certainly hit the weight room. However, given the bulkiness of the batsuit it might be better to have someone who's 15-20 pounds lighter wearing the suit.
THE BAD Script -- The bottom line is this is just not a well written movie. With so many possibilities for telling this story, I am just astonished this was the best story they could come up with. I learned years ago that a good story was one where you can sit down in a living room, around a campfire, or on a stage; tell in 20-30 minutes or so; and have the audience transfixed. That 20- to 30-minute treatment then becomes a 2:00-2:30 script. I'm not sure if you sat down and told this story that the audience would be able to coherently follow it or buy in to it. Superman's Resurrection -- While the plan made practically no sense, it could have at least been executed better and been more visually epic. To me, the story took a bad detour.
Instead, of just dumping Kal El's body (wearing a black business suit) from the coffin into the Kryptonian fluid, why not change him into a black Kryptonian "healing suit", put the medical pod into the fluid and then still use the mother box to generate the necessary energy. Superman could have then dramatically emerged wearing the black suit everyone was expecting to see, but also confused, enraged (echoes of Doomsday), unshaven, and with longer hair. The next scene would have had him fly off. The Leaguers would go after him leading to the fight at the monument, where Superman would have looked both evil and deadly (maybe tearing Cyborg in half and nearly killing Batman). Then not only could Steppenwolf had boomed in to take the Motherbox, but Superman as well with the intention of converting him into a servant. Then in the final battle the League would have truly felt they were facing insurmountable odds of an evil Superman, Steppenwolf and hoards of Parademons--which makes them even more heroic by willing to give their lives. Or alternatively, a confused Superman in the black suit could have still flown off after the fight at the monument, but then it is Lois who brings him back to his senses and hands him his blue and red costume which she had been keeping since his death. Then Superman first goes to the Batcave where he learns from Alfred that the Leaguers have gone off to face Steppenwolf and try to save the world. (which might have been the original storyline based on the trailers)
THE UGLY Steppenwolf -- While not the worst villain ever, certainly not very good. There was no reason for him to be a TV-level CGI character. The design was weak and there was nothing at all special about the performance capture. I don't know anything about Steppenwolf from the comics other than that he looks like a regular human and is about 7' tall. So why not hire a top caliber actor who can deliver a nuanced performance (like a Ralph Feinnes or Liam Neeson), digitally make him appear 7' tall, arm him with a powerful weapon, and maybe give him a couple of scary looking CGI heavies who could do most of the fighting along with the Parademons. Steppenwolf should have been the type who only steps in to deliver a killing blow after the opponent has essentially been defeated. Any decent actor could have also conveyed awe, reverence and fear when speaking of Darkseid. Flash's running style -- I didn't know what people were talking about until I saw it. WTF?
WHERE TO NOW? Let the Movie Run its Course -- It's out there so hopefully it will eek out enough that Warner doesn't drive the entire DCEU back into development hell. I doubt that will happen because even though the critics and naysayers are forecasting doom and gloom, these are still the most valuable, high potential franchises Warner has if they hope to keep up anywhere near Disney. If there's a Snyder Cut Release It at Some Point-- I can understand why Warner is not saying anything while the movie is just two weeks in, but I for one would definitely like to see the Snyder cut it it exists--either in the theater or special edition DVD. Not just some deleted scenes but a full cut. The movie was clearly tinkered with to hell by Warner Brass and/or Whedon. I think Warner will put something out eventually, but given the timing Snyder's cut is at best a rough cut that would need more renders and editing, and at worst a 3-hour to 4-hour string out with low-rez renders and animatics in places. So it could be years down the road like the Donner cut of Superman II. Focus on the Solo Movies --Now that the characters have been introduced they need to be developed. Hopefully James Wan has delivered on Aquaman, which would go a long way to getting things back on track. Flashpoint (villain Reverse Flash) also desperately needs to land. In addition to further building out the character, it can make some minor course corrections to the DCEU and introduce the new Batman if necessary. Then keep Shazam on track; figure out their Batman issue ASAP so they can get that franchise rolling (villain Deathstroke with Joker pulling the strings); Hammer out a kick *** Cyborg script (mixing in themes of VR) and put that on the schedule even if it needs to push back because it will be expensive; get Green Lantern Corps going (villain Sinestro and setting up the color lanterns at the end); put Superman 2 (villain Brainiac and introducing Supergirl) and Wonder Woman 2 (villain Cheetah) on the fast track; keep Nightwing and Batgirl on track but keep the budgets around $75M/per since the effects should be moderate. If they do Gotham City Sirens, keep the budget around $100M. Suicide Squad is already spinning up possibly introducing Black Adam so it should do well. Use those movies to introduce a few more characters along the way. Push JL2 back to 2021 (hopefully no later) -- get a strong creative team, and focus on Injustice League (bringing together villains from the solo movies--Reverse Flash, Black Manta, Joker, Luthor, Cheetah, Black Adam, etc.). Then set up Darkseid in the after credits to hit in 2024.
What they should not do IMO is work on a Joker movie that will just confuse the audience.
Despite everything I am still glad to have a Justice League movie. And I'm still planning to pick up all the JL figures HT produces.
Finally saw it on Wednesday. 6/10 for me. While I enjoyed it enough for what it was and will pick it up on digital, I can certainly understand the divisiveness of this movie.
THE GOOD Casting--I still think Warner DC/Snyder knocked it out of the park with their casting choices--Cavill, Affleck, Gadot are stellar, and Mamoa, Miller and Fisher were all good adds. Costumes and Powers -- The costumes look ripped right from the comics. Sure the MCU delivers on costumes for characters like Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, Black Panther, Vision and Spider-Man, others like Scarlet Witch, Falcon and Hawkeye have been somewhat underwhelming. And Fox's X-Men and Fantastic Four have lagged way behind. Cinematography -- Despite the uneveness and dodgy CGI, Snyder knows how to compose gorgeous visuals. They also improved the color grading this time out, although next time out I think they could go with an even more vivid color palette provided they don't have another CGI villain.
THE SO-SO Humor -- They did succeed in lightening the mood, much of which was probably Whedon but I think Snyder had also already lightened it somewhat before having to take a leave of absence (people should not forget how tough this all must have been on him). However, some of the jokes were forced, fell flat or just didn't seem consistent coming out of a character's mouth. The audience at my showing did seem to get and enjoy most of the jokes, but there were also glaring awkward moments. One problem was you could pretty much tell when jokes were inserted. Well written humor needs to flow naturally, as opposed to jokes having to be set up, which takes away from storytelling. CGI -- Yes it was dodgy at times. Steppenwolf looked like a poor video game boss. Cyborg for sure in some scenes, but better in others. I didn't let myself look for the "stash" so it wasn't a distraction. The Old War -- I'm not sure if that was chopped to hell for time or what. It had all the right elements to look epic, but it went by so fast was so choppily edited it fell short. After Credits -- The mid-credit scene was a cool homage, but felt tacked on and seemed like it was shot over a weekend by the b-unit. The second after credits was very cool and a nice possible setup. Cyborg, Flash and Aquaman -- According to reports, all three character got shortchanged by having numerous scenes cut, as a result character development suffered. I really liked what they did with each of them when they were on screen, but their backstories were rushed. I liked Cyborg a lot more than I thought I would. I liked Flash, but not as much as I was expecting. I am definitely looking forward to the Aquaman movie. (and yep, given Mera's limited screen time, she won't be getting a HT fig yet.) Batfleck -- I still think Ben Affleck has given us the best film Batman ever, but parts of this performance seemed phoned in. He seemed less comfortable as Bruce Wayne than he was in BvS, and in some scenes looked overweight. He's been dealing with some personal demons behind the scenes and I think that may have crept into his performance. That said, he needs to commits to the role and stick with it. If not, now is the time to make the announcement and part ways so that a new actor can take over the role. While I know Gyllenhal has been floated and being 10 years younger, might very well be the right choice. But he's also almost a half foot shorter. I hope others actors are considered. Personally I think John Hamm could be a great choice. He would probably pull off Bruce Wayne even better than Affleck. He's only a year older and at 6'2" he's almost the same height. While he doesn't have Affleck's build, he could certainly hit the weight room. However, given the bulkiness of the batsuit it might be better to have someone who's 15-20 pounds lighter wearing the suit.
THE BAD Script -- The bottom line is this is just not a well written movie. With so many possibilities for telling this story, I am just astonished this was the best story they could come up with. I learned years ago that a good story was one where you can sit down in a living room, around a campfire, or on a stage; tell in 20-30 minutes or so; and have the audience transfixed. That 20- to 30-minute treatment then becomes a 2:00-2:30 script. I'm not sure if you sat down and told this story that the audience would buy in to it. Superman's Resurrection -- While the plan made practically no sense, it could have at least been executed better and been more visually epic. To me, the story took a bad detour.
Instead, of just dumping Kal El's body (wearing a black business suit) from the coffin into the Kryptonian fluid, why not change him in the black Kryptonian healing suit, put the birthing pod into the fluid and then still use the mother box to generate the necessary energy. Superman could have then dramatically emerged wearing the black suit everyone was expecting to see, but also confused, enraged (echoes of Doomsday), unshaven, and with longer hair. The next scene would have had him fly off. The Leaguers would go after him leading to the fight at the monument, where Superman would have looked both evil and deadly (maybe tearing Cyborg in half and nearly killing Batman). Then not only would Steppenwolf had boomed in to take the Motherbox, but Superman as well with the intention of converting him. Then in the final battle the League could have truly felt they were facing insurmountable odds of evil Superman, Steppenwolf and hoards of Parademons, which makes them even more heroic. Or alternatively, a confused Superman in the black suit could have still flown off after the fight at the monument, but then it is Lois who brings him back to his senses and hands him his blue and red costume which she had been keeping since his death. Then Superman first goes to the Batcave where he learns from Alfred that the Leaguers have gone off to face Steppenwolf and try to save the world. (which might have been the original storyline based on the trailers)
THE UGLY Steppenwolf -- While not the worst villain ever, certainly not very good. There was no reason for him to be a TV-level CGI character. The design was weak and there was nothing at all special about the performance capture. I don't know anything about Steppenwolf from the comics other than that he looks like a regular human and is about 7' tall. So why not hire a top caliber actor who can deliver a nuanced performance (like a Ralph Feinnes or Liam Neeson), digitally make him appear 7' tall, arm him with a powerful weapon, and maybe give him a couple of scary looking CGI heavies who could do most of the fighting. Steppenwolf should have been the type who only steps in to deliver a killing blow after the opponent has essentially been defeated. Any decent actor could have also conveyed awe, reverence and fear when speaking of Darkseid. Flash's running style -- I didn't know what people were talking about until I saw it. WTF?
WHERE TO NOW? Let the Movie Run its Course -- It's out there so hopefully it will eek out enough that Warner doesn't drive the entire DCEU back into development hell. I doubt that will happen because even though the critics are forecasting doom and gloom, these are still the most valuable, high potential franchises Warner has if they hope to keep up anywhere near Disney. If there's a Snyder Cut Release It at Some Point-- I can understand why Warner is not saying anything while the movie is just two weeks in, but I for one would definitely like to see the Snyder cut it it exists--either in the theater or special edition DVD. Not just some deleted scenes but a full cut. The movie was clearly tinkered with to hell by Warner Brass and/or Whedon. I think Warner will put something out eventually, but given the timing Snyder's cut is at best a rough cut that would need more renders, and at worst a 3-hour to 4-hour string out. So it could be years down the road like the Donner cut of Superman II. Focus on the Solo Movies --Now that the characters have been introduced they need to be developed. Hopefully James Wan has delivered on Aquaman, which would go a long way to getting things back on track. Flashpoint (villain Reverse Flash) also desperately needs to land. In addition to further building out the character, it can make some minor course corrections to the DCEU and introduce the new Batman if necessary. Then keep Shazam on track; figure out their Batman issue ASAP so they can get that franchise rolling (villain Deathstroke with Joker pulling the strings); Hammer out a kick *** Cyborg script (mixing in themes of VR) and put that on the schedule even if it needs to push back because it will be expensive; get Green Lantern Corps going (villain Sinestro and setting up the color lanterns at the end); put Superman 2 (villain Brainiac and introducing Supergirl) and Wonder Woman 2 (villain Cheetah) on the fast track; keep Nightwing and Batgirl on track but keep the budgets around $75M/per since the effects should be moderate. If they do Gotham City Sirens, keep the budget around $100M. Suicide Squad is already spinning up possibly introducing Black Adam so it should do well. Use those movies to introduce a few more characters along the way. Push JL2 back to 2021 (hopefully no later) -- get a strong creative team, and focus on Injustice League (bringing together villains from the solo movies--Reverse Flash, Black Manta, Joker, Luthor, Cheetah, Black Adam, etc.). Then set up Darkseid in the after credits to hit in 2024.
What they should not do IMO is work on a Joker movie that will just confuse the audience.
Despite everything I am still glad to have a Justice League movie. And I'm still planning to pick up all the JL figures HT produces.
Great breakdown- glad to see a good discussion- I thought it was a solid 7/10 but yes it looks cut up badly. If WB is through with Snyder(more than likely) I hope they can still release his version. Like you say might be years away.
Finally saw it on Wednesday. 6/10 for me. While I enjoyed it enough for what it was and will pick it up on digital, I can certainly understand the divisiveness of this movie.
THE GOOD Casting--I still think Warner DC/Snyder knocked it out of the park with their casting choices--Cavill, Affleck, Gadot are stellar, and Mamoa, Miller and Fisher were all good adds. Costumes and Powers -- The costumes look ripped right from the comics. Sure the MCU delivers on costumes for characters like Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, Black Panther, Vision and Spider-Man, others like Scarlet Witch, Falcon and Hawkeye have been somewhat underwhelming. And Fox's X-Men and Fantastic Four have lagged way behind. Cinematography -- Despite the uneveness and dodgy CGI, Snyder knows how to compose gorgeous visuals. They also improved the color grading this time out, although next time out I think they could go with an even more vivid color palette provided they don't have another CGI villain.
THE SO-SO Humor -- They did succeed in lightening the mood, much of which was probably Whedon but I think Snyder had also already lightened it somewhat before having to take a leave of absence (people should not forget how tough this all must have been on him). However, some of the jokes were forced, fell flat or just didn't seem consistent coming out of a character's mouth. The audience at my showing did seem to get and enjoy most of the jokes, but there were also glaring awkward moments. One problem was you could pretty much tell when jokes were inserted. Well written humor needs to flow naturally, as opposed to jokes having to be set up, which takes away from storytelling. CGI -- Yes it was dodgy at times. Steppenwolf looked like a poor video game boss. Cyborg for sure in some scenes, but better in others. I didn't let myself look for the "stash" so it wasn't a distraction. The Old War -- I'm not sure if that was chopped to hell for time or what. It had all the right elements to look epic, but it went by so fast was so choppily edited it fell short. After Credits -- The mid-credit scene was a cool homage, but felt tacked on and seemed like it was shot over a weekend by the b-unit. The second after credits was very cool and a nice possible setup. Cyborg, Flash and Aquaman -- According to reports, all three character got shortchanged by having numerous scenes cut, as a result character development suffered. I really liked what they did with each of them when they were on screen, but their backstories were rushed. I liked Cyborg a lot more than I thought I would. I liked Flash, but not as much as I was expecting. I am definitely looking forward to the Aquaman movie. (and yep, given Mera's limited screen time, she won't be getting a HT fig yet.) Batfleck -- I still think Ben Affleck has given us the best film Batman ever, but parts of this performance seemed phoned in. He seemed less comfortable as Bruce Wayne than he was in BvS, and in some scenes looked overweight. He's been dealing with some personal demons behind the scenes and I think that may have crept into his performance. That said, he needs to commit to the role and stick with it. If not, now is the time to make the announcement and part ways so that a new actor can take over the role. While I know Gyllenhaal has been floated and being 10 years younger, might very well be the right choice. But he's also almost a half foot shorter. I hope others actors are considered. Personally I think John Hamm could be a great choice. He would probably pull off Bruce Wayne even better than Affleck. He's only a year older and at 6'2" he's almost the same height. While he doesn't have Affleck's build, he could certainly hit the weight room. However, given the bulkiness of the batsuit it might be better to have someone who's 15-20 pounds lighter wearing the suit.
THE BAD Script -- The bottom line is this is just not a well written movie. With so many possibilities for telling this story, I am just astonished this was the best story they could come up with. I learned years ago that a good story was one where you can sit down in a living room, around a campfire, or on a stage; tell in 20-30 minutes or so; and have the audience transfixed. That 20- to 30-minute treatment then becomes a 2:00-2:30 script. I'm not sure if you sat down and told this story that the audience would be able to coherently follow it or buy in to it. Superman's Resurrection -- While the plan made practically no sense, it could have at least been executed better and been more visually epic. To me, the story took a bad detour.
Instead, of just dumping Kal El's body (wearing a black business suit) from the coffin into the Kryptonian fluid, why not change him into a black Kryptonian "healing suit", put the medical pod into the fluid and then still use the mother box to generate the necessary energy. Superman could have then dramatically emerged wearing the black suit everyone was expecting to see, but also confused, enraged (echoes of Doomsday), unshaven, and with longer hair. The next scene would have had him fly off. The Leaguers would go after him leading to the fight at the monument, where Superman would have looked both evil and deadly (maybe tearing Cyborg in half and nearly killing Batman). Then not only could Steppenwolf had boomed in to take the Motherbox, but Superman as well with the intention of converting him into a servant. Then in the final battle the League would have truly felt they were facing insurmountable odds of an evil Superman, Steppenwolf and hoards of Parademons--which makes them even more heroic by willing to give their lives. Or alternatively, a confused Superman in the black suit could have still flown off after the fight at the monument, but then it is Lois who brings him back to his senses and hands him his blue and red costume which she had been keeping since his death. Then Superman first goes to the Batcave where he learns from Alfred that the Leaguers have gone off to face Steppenwolf and try to save the world. (which might have been the original storyline based on the trailers)
THE UGLY Steppenwolf -- While not the worst villain ever, certainly not very good. There was no reason for him to be a TV-level CGI character. The design was weak and there was nothing at all special about the performance capture. I don't know anything about Steppenwolf from the comics other than that he looks like a regular human and is about 7' tall. So why not hire a top caliber actor who can deliver a nuanced performance (like a Ralph Feinnes or Liam Neeson), digitally make him appear 7' tall, arm him with a powerful weapon, and maybe give him a couple of scary looking CGI heavies who could do most of the fighting. Steppenwolf should have been the type who only steps in to deliver a killing blow after the opponent has essentially been defeated. Any decent actor could have also conveyed awe, reverence and fear when speaking of Darkseid. Flash's running style -- I didn't know what people were talking about until I saw it. WTF?
WHERE TO NOW? Let the Movie Run its Course -- It's out there so hopefully it will eek out enough that Warner doesn't drive the entire DCEU back into development hell. I doubt that will happen because even though the critics are forecasting doom and gloom, these are still the most valuable, high potential franchises Warner has if they hope to keep up anywhere near Disney. If there's a Snyder Cut Release It at Some Point-- I can understand why Warner is not saying anything while the movie is just two weeks in, but I for one would definitely like to see the Snyder cut it it exists--either in the theater or special edition DVD. Not just some deleted scenes but a full cut. The movie was clearly tinkered with to hell by Warner Brass and/or Whedon. I think Warner will put something out eventually, but given the timing Snyder's cut is at best a rough cut that would need more renders, and at worst a 3-hour to 4-hour string out. So it could be years down the road like the Donner cut of Superman II. Focus on the Solo Movies --Now that the characters have been introduced they need to be developed. Hopefully James Wan has delivered on Aquaman, which would go a long way to getting things back on track. Flashpoint (villain Reverse Flash) also desperately needs to land. In addition to further building out the character, it can make some minor course corrections to the DCEU and introduce the new Batman if necessary. Then keep Shazam on track; figure out their Batman issue ASAP so they can get that franchise rolling (villain Deathstroke with Joker pulling the strings); Hammer out a kick *** Cyborg script (mixing in themes of VR) and put that on the schedule even if it needs to push back because it will be expensive; get Green Lantern Corps going (villain Sinestro and setting up the color lanterns at the end); put Superman 2 (villain Brainiac and introducing Supergirl) and Wonder Woman 2 (villain Cheetah) on the fast track; keep Nightwing and Batgirl on track but keep the budgets around $75M/per since the effects should be moderate. If they do Gotham City Sirens, keep the budget around $100M. Suicide Squad is already spinning up possibly introducing Black Adam so it should do well. Use those movies to introduce a few more characters along the way. Push JL2 back to 2021 (hopefully no later) -- get a strong creative team, and focus on Injustice League (bringing together villains from the solo movies--Reverse Flash, Black Manta, Joker, Luthor, Cheetah, Black Adam, etc.). Then set up Darkseid in the after credits to hit in 2024.
What they should not do IMO is work on a Joker movie that will just confuse the audience.
Despite everything I am still glad to have a Justice League movie. And I'm still planning to pick up all the JL figures HT produces.
Finally saw it on Wednesday. 6/10 for me. While I enjoyed it enough for what it was and will pick it up on digital, I can certainly understand the divisiveness of this movie.
THE GOOD Casting--I still think Warner DC/Snyder knocked it out of the park with their casting choices--Cavill, Affleck, Gadot are stellar, and Mamoa, Miller and Fisher were all good adds. Costumes and Powers -- The costumes look ripped right from the comics. Sure the MCU delivers on costumes for characters like Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, Black Panther, Vision and Spider-Man, others like Scarlet Witch, Falcon and Hawkeye have been somewhat underwhelming. And Fox's X-Men and Fantastic Four have lagged way behind. Cinematography -- Despite the uneveness and dodgy CGI, Snyder knows how to compose gorgeous visuals. They also improved the color grading this time out, although next time out I think they could go with an even more vivid color palette provided they don't have another CGI villain.
THE SO-SO Humor -- They did succeed in lightening the mood, much of which was probably Whedon but I think Snyder had also already lightened it somewhat before having to take a leave of absence (people should not forget how tough this all must have been on him). However, some of the jokes were forced, fell flat or just didn't seem consistent coming out of a character's mouth. The audience at my showing did seem to get and enjoy most of the jokes, but there were also glaring awkward moments. One problem was you could pretty much tell when jokes were inserted. Well written humor needs to flow naturally, as opposed to jokes having to be set up, which takes away from storytelling. CGI -- Yes it was dodgy at times. Steppenwolf looked like a poor video game boss. Cyborg for sure in some scenes, but better in others. I didn't let myself look for the "stash" so it wasn't a distraction. The Old War -- I'm not sure if that was chopped to hell for time or what. It had all the right elements to look epic, but it went by so fast was so choppily edited it fell short. After Credits -- The mid-credit scene was a cool homage, but felt tacked on and seemed like it was shot over a weekend by the b-unit. The second after credits was very cool and a nice possible setup. Cyborg, Flash and Aquaman -- According to reports, all three character got shortchanged by having numerous scenes cut, as a result character development suffered. I really liked what they did with each of them when they were on screen, but their backstories were rushed. I liked Cyborg a lot more than I thought I would. I liked Flash, but not as much as I was expecting. I am definitely looking forward to the Aquaman movie. (and yep, given Mera's limited screen time, she won't be getting a HT fig yet.) Batfleck -- I still think Ben Affleck has given us the best film Batman ever, but parts of this performance seemed phoned in. He seemed less comfortable as Bruce Wayne than he was in BvS, and in some scenes looked overweight. He's been dealing with some personal demons behind the scenes and I think that may have crept into his performance. That said, he needs to commit to the role and stick with it. If not, now is the time to make the announcement and part ways so that a new actor can take over the role. While I know Gyllenhaal has been floated and being 10 years younger, might very well be the right choice. But he's also almost a half foot shorter. I hope others actors are considered. Personally I think John Hamm could be a great choice. He would probably pull off Bruce Wayne even better than Affleck. He's only a year older and at 6'2" he's almost the same height. While he doesn't have Affleck's build, he could certainly hit the weight room. However, given the bulkiness of the batsuit it might be better to have someone who's 15-20 pounds lighter wearing the suit.
THE BAD Script -- The bottom line is this is just not a well written movie. With so many possibilities for telling this story, I am just astonished this was the best story they could come up with. I learned years ago that a good story was one where you can sit down in a living room, around a campfire, or on a stage; tell in 20-30 minutes or so; and have the audience transfixed. That 20- to 30-minute treatment then becomes a 2:00-2:30 script. I'm not sure if you sat down and told this story that the audience would be able to coherently follow it or buy in to it. Superman's Resurrection -- While the plan made practically no sense, it could have at least been executed better and been more visually epic. To me, the story took a bad detour.
Instead, of just dumping Kal El's body (wearing a black business suit) from the coffin into the Kryptonian fluid, why not change him into a black Kryptonian "healing suit", put the medical pod into the fluid and then still use the mother box to generate the necessary energy. Superman could have then dramatically emerged wearing the black suit everyone was expecting to see, but also confused, enraged (echoes of Doomsday), unshaven, and with longer hair. The next scene would have had him fly off. The Leaguers would go after him leading to the fight at the monument, where Superman would have looked both evil and deadly (maybe tearing Cyborg in half and nearly killing Batman). Then not only could Steppenwolf had boomed in to take the Motherbox, but Superman as well with the intention of converting him into a servant. Then in the final battle the League would have truly felt they were facing insurmountable odds of an evil Superman, Steppenwolf and hoards of Parademons--which makes them even more heroic by willing to give their lives. Or alternatively, a confused Superman in the black suit could have still flown off after the fight at the monument, but then it is Lois who brings him back to his senses and hands him his blue and red costume which she had been keeping since his death. Then Superman first goes to the Batcave where he learns from Alfred that the Leaguers have gone off to face Steppenwolf and try to save the world. (which might have been the original storyline based on the trailers)
THE UGLY Steppenwolf -- While not the worst villain ever, certainly not very good. There was no reason for him to be a TV-level CGI character. The design was weak and there was nothing at all special about the performance capture. I don't know anything about Steppenwolf from the comics other than that he looks like a regular human and is about 7' tall. So why not hire a top caliber actor who can deliver a nuanced performance (like a Ralph Feinnes or Liam Neeson), digitally make him appear 7' tall, arm him with a powerful weapon, and maybe give him a couple of scary looking CGI heavies who could do most of the fighting along with the Parademons. Steppenwolf should have been the type who only steps in to deliver a killing blow after the opponent has essentially been defeated. Any decent actor could have also conveyed awe, reverence and fear when speaking of Darkseid. Flash's running style -- I didn't know what people were talking about until I saw it. WTF?
WHERE TO NOW? Let the Movie Run its Course -- It's out there so hopefully it will eek out enough that Warner doesn't drive the entire DCEU back into development hell. I doubt that will happen because even though the critics and naysayers are forecasting doom and gloom, these are still the most valuable, high potential franchises Warner has if they hope to keep up anywhere near Disney. If there's a Snyder Cut Release It at Some Point-- I can understand why Warner is not saying anything while the movie is just two weeks in, but I for one would definitely like to see the Snyder cut it it exists--either in the theater or special edition DVD. Not just some deleted scenes but a full cut. The movie was clearly tinkered with to hell by Warner Brass and/or Whedon. I think Warner will put something out eventually, but given the timing Snyder's cut is at best a rough cut that would need more renders, and at worst a 3-hour to 4-hour string out. So it could be years down the road like the Donner cut of Superman II. Focus on the Solo Movies --Now that the characters have been introduced they need to be developed. Hopefully James Wan has delivered on Aquaman, which would go a long way to getting things back on track. Flashpoint (villain Reverse Flash) also desperately needs to land. In addition to further building out the character, it can make some minor course corrections to the DCEU and introduce the new Batman if necessary. Then keep Shazam on track; figure out their Batman issue ASAP so they can get that franchise rolling (villain Deathstroke with Joker pulling the strings); Hammer out a kick *** Cyborg script (mixing in themes of VR) and put that on the schedule even if it needs to push back because it will be expensive; get Green Lantern Corps going (villain Sinestro and setting up the color lanterns at the end); put Superman 2 (villain Brainiac and introducing Supergirl) and Wonder Woman 2 (villain Cheetah) on the fast track; keep Nightwing and Batgirl on track but keep the budgets around $75M/per since the effects should be moderate. If they do Gotham City Sirens, keep the budget around $100M. Suicide Squad is already spinning up possibly introducing Black Adam so it should do well. Use those movies to introduce a few more characters along the way. Push JL2 back to 2021 (hopefully no later) -- get a strong creative team, and focus on Injustice League (bringing together villains from the solo movies--Reverse Flash, Black Manta, Joker, Luthor, Cheetah, Black Adam, etc.). Then set up Darkseid in the after credits to hit in 2024.
What they should not do IMO is work on a Joker movie that will just confuse the audience.
Despite everything I am still glad to have a Justice League movie. And I'm still planning to pick up all the JL figures HT produces.
Yes. Excellent review. Exactly my sentiments to a tee !
Your idea about the Superman rebirth sounds far superior and dramatic !! In the black suit with unshaven look they wouldn't have had to CGI out the moustache ! Win-win
There is so much potential here and WB just needs to concentrate on not ******Ing it up.
I think WB are their own biggest enemy. The characters, the potential stories, the audience fanbase etc etc all exist. It's a licence to print money. As long as the ones in charge don't F it up.
ive got no imax experience to compare but agree with this guy about how he feels about the movie second viewing ,and the things he enjoyed about it ,he makes some interesting points ,if you can get through his "black guy Brandon "story
Sigh, what could have been. Not really sure if Snyder's JL would have been a better movie, but it at least would have looked and felt about 50% more epic and badass.
And I really miss lines like "I'm real when it's useful", which seemed a lot more clever and appropriate to the characters than the overly cute, Buffy style quips we got.
I don't know if the Snyder version will necessarily be better, but I'm very interested to see it, especially in the theater as opposed to on DVD. Contrary to how it was reported, Whedon was not brought in to "finish" the movie after Snyder took a leave of absence. They could have had Snyder hand pick a director and provide all the necessary notes. I think Warner was already nervous and saw this as an opportunity to throw money at Whedon so he could "Avengerize" the movie. That resulted in a lot of rewriting, reshooting and reworking, which blew up the budget. I would guess the resulting story is maybe 65-75% of the original version. I think Snyder had probably already done some tone lightening, which may very Well have achieved the right balance, who knows. I still think Steppenwolf is an unnecessary CGI character regardless, but many of the right elements were there. Sure it's possible maybe even likely that we could see the Snyder cut and say "thank god they didn't put that one out". But simply as a fan of the characters and movies, being able to see both cuts would be great. What would be funny is if the Snyder cut gets released and gets a fresh score from critics and is overwhelming preferred by fans. I wonder if any heads would roll.
Yeah sounds like there was at least a complete rough edit of the movie before Whedon came along, and judging from the trailers a lot of the effects had already been completed. But whether there's enough there to put a final Snyder cut together, who knows.
Although even a half finished version of that original movie would be interesting to see, I think.
