Hot Toys Justice League Superman

[Alatar]

In other news, from what Henry Cavill has recently said sounds like WB really just wants him to step away because they're going to recast with another actor. I strongly expect JJ Abrams will make a Superman trilogy as his next project. Doesn't look like he's planning to use Cavill or I would imagine that they'd have given Henry reassurance that he's still in. I doubt it's an age thing. Henry is actually only 3 years older than Pattinson. That's nothing. They're basically the same age.

Maybe it's more the psychological impact of seeing Cavill alongside Pattinson will conjure associations of Batfleck. I.e., we're used to seeing Cavill and Affleck together. Maybe some fans are going to struggle with the change and they want to minimize that adjustment.

Honestly not sure otherwise what the reason would be. Unless Cavill is trying to dictate the story, since he has his own ideas about what he wants to do which is specifically a sequel to Man of Steel in which how the character deals with having absolute power affects him, a kind of psychological study. If he's insisting on that, and Abrams is coming in to make the next film, then that's pretty foolish of Henry--if he wants to remain in the role. At least see what Abrams wants to do, right? Not saying that is the case, but if it is then Henry would be his own worst enemy tbh. But of course this is just rampant speculation here.

 

[Futurion]

I'm sure Cavill is out since they even didn't bother to cast him for Shazam cameo.

 

[spindrift]

I'm sure Cavill is out since they even didn't bother to cast him for Shazam cameo.

That was a bad sign unless they didn't want to pay him...is this Abrams thing a rumor or did I miss something???

 

[ShanLan]

I strongly expect JJ Abrams will make a Superman trilogy as his next project.

I certainly hope not. I'm rather sick of JJ Abrams... he's got his fingers stuck into everything, and I don't even find him to be a particularly thrilling filmmaker. One trick pony.

 

[hbhf]

Maybe it's more the psychological impact of seeing Cavill alongside Pattinson will conjure associations of Batfleck. I.e., we're used to seeing Cavill and Affleck together. Maybe some fans are going to struggle with the change and they want to minimize that adjustment.

I doubt that's a problem. They were able to recast Batman after films that were far more popular and better received than BVS or Justice League in the past; Batfleck's shadow will not be some huge obstacle the new actor needs to overcome. If Reeves' movie is good, people will go see it. Hell, even if it isn't, they'll probably still show up because Batman. The character is bigger than any one single actor.

Honestly not sure otherwise what the reason would be.

Honestly? It seems pretty simple to me. They want a clean break not tied to the previous movies, which were controversial at best and outright panned at worse. It seems pretty clear that were it not for the success of Wonder Woman and Aquaman, WB would've probably done an outright universe-wide reboot by now.

I'm sure Cavill is out since they even didn't bother to cast him for Shazam cameo.

They offered him the cameo and he turned it down. The official explanation was he was busy (which sounds like a load of crap) but The Hollywood Reporter said it was because he wanted a pay raise and more creative control on future Superman movies, which WB didn't feel like giving him.

 

[Nine Inch Nails]

I like Cavill. But dude is not an a lister to be demanding all that. That’s his manager who has been playing hardball with WB. Cavill would love to come back as Superman.

 

[SilverStar17]

Yeah, I don’t really think Cavill’s camp has anything to leverage. Don’t get me wrong, he’s a great Superman, but let’s face it, it’s not like he’s as vital as staying Superman to the DCEU as RDJ or Chris Evans was to keeping and finishing out their respective characters for the MCU. I’m sure WB wouldn’t have any compunctions on recasting him if he becomes difficult to work with. It’s not like his character has raked in oodles of money for them.

Yeah, come to think it typically we see news of its release in Hong Kong, and it starts getting reviewed by folks with connections in HK. But it seems like it makes it to Sideshow faster than 6-8 weeks, doesn't it? As sj2106 says isn't it more like 2-3? Or maybe just 4?

That’s how the process works. On occasion it does make it to SSC in less than 6 weeks, sometimes it takes longer than 8 weeks. 6-8 weeks is the general rule of thumb time window though.

Even if the figure were to release next week, it’s doubtful you’d get it by 9/5 from SSC. Possible, but doubtful.

 

[sj2106]

If the JJ Abrams rumours turn out to be true the new Superman will supposedly inhabit the same universe as Reeves Batman and Supergirl(if that movie ever happens).

Godot's Wonder Woman, Mamoa's Aquaman and presumably Shazam will still exist in the old continuity.

Probably all BS rumours but if they did go that route they could merge at some point with a Crisis event movie.

 

[Hoody999]

WB are ****ing idiots. Instead of sticking to their guns and having faith in their course they chickened out and re-booted.

Just looking at first Marvel films. Iron Man 1 & 2 had around $600M global box office.
Man of Steel $668M global. BvS $873M global. What is wrong with that for initial movies ?

Moving forward with established characters using a Marvel approach reaps you big $ over the longer term. Marvel clearly shows that having millions of viewers invested means they almost all go to see each movie in the "series". Marvel has had something like 11 of the last billion $ movies made.

But no, WB had to have instant success and were too chicken to keep to their guns, even when Marvel has been taking all the risks and showing the way it can be done. Even with 3 movies a year ! Justice League I do't even want to discuss the levels of stupidity by WB exhibited there.

Yes Aquaman was $1b, but I would argue this is also because he was established in the Justice League. People knew Mamoa as a cool character, and the film was pretty cool.

So now we will have another Batman, no doubt another Superman for no reason whatsoever.

No wonder HT treats DC as last priority. It's all just so frustrating.

OK if Affleck wanted out due to alcohol or whatever fine, but keep Cavill in and maintain the course and vibe. Sure it was dark, but that makes it different to Marvel. BvS ext version was excellent in my opinion and complex, dealing with real issues.

If the JJ Abrams rumour is true he'll start out with a blank piece of paper and re-cast. That's unfortunately his style.

I'll be happy once I get my Cavill Superman and call it a day with Batfleck, Wonderwoman and Supes figures.

 

[hbhf]

They were disappointed with the 873 million because there's a big asterisk involved: it had one of the worst week 2 drops in the history of superhero cinema. It had a massive opening weekend, and then just fell off a cliff due to negative reception. That's the problem and why it was so worrying for the studio. For comparison, BVS is currently #9 on the list of Top 10 highest opening weekends of all time, and yet is the only movie in that top ten to not make at least a billion dollars. Even films that opened below it and had smaller opening weekends, like Pirates of the Caribbean 3 and 4, Furious 7, Iron Man 3, Black Panther, Captain America: Civil War, ect. all made at least a billion. And they did so because they were able to sustain momentum because people actually enjoyed them and thus saw them multiple times, or encouraged friends and family to also see them. That did not happen with BVS.

That's a sign there was negative word of mouth. People were super hyped to see BVS, but then that momentum failed to keep up because of bad buzz. And in fact, that bad buzz almost certainly contributed to the smaller opening for the sequel, Justice League (which we've seen before with sequels to poorly received movies). Especially when you factor in that Batman vs. Superman should've been at least a billion dollar idea, given that Batman's last two solo movies (The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises) did over a billion each.

 

[Hoody999]

They were disappointed with the 873 million because there's a big asterisk involved: it had one of the worst week 2 drops in the history of superhero cinema. It had a massive opening weekend, and then just fell off a cliff due to negative reception. That's the problem and why it was so worrying for the studio. For comparison, BVS is currently #9 on the list of Top 10 highest opening weekends of all time, and yet is the only movie in that top ten to not make at least a billion dollars. Even films that opened below it and had smaller opening weekends, like Pirates of the Caribbean 3 and 4, Furious 7, Iron Man 3, Black Panther, Captain America: Civil War, ect. all made at least a billion. And they did so because they were able to sustain momentum because people actually enjoyed them and thus saw them multiple times, or encouraged friends and family to also see them. That did not happen with BVS.

That's a sign there was negative word of mouth. People were super hyped to see BVS, but then that momentum failed to keep up because of bad buzz. And in fact, that bad buzz almost certainly contributed to the smaller opening for the sequel, Justice League (which we've seen before with sequels to poorly received movies). Especially when you factor in that Batman vs. Superman should've been at least a billion dollar idea, given that Batman's last two solo movies (The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises) did over a billion each.

I still say "grow a pair" and keep going, ala Marvel. Sure I get it the next movie suffers with a drop off like that. But they certainly didn't help themselves chopping and changing Justice League the way they did. Just annoyed fans who liked BvS and MoS.

In any case this discussion has probably already happened in multiple online threads.

It's just so annoying when there is a proven formula, they have a well known IP, hundreds of stories and characters to be mined and they still can't get it right.

 

[JorjeCroft]

Cavill was an actor who made me fall in love with cinematic superman. I was porn in 90s I'm sorry but previous versions look funny to me and can't take it serious. Why I loved MOS so much was the sense of realism. emotion, dramatic aspect of the movie and how deep and different it was from nowadays superhero genre. I was really impressed and barely could breathing while I was watching fight scenes at cinema because it was something I have never seen before and I have seen every marvel and superher movie well at least modern ones. that's what BREATHTAKING means. BvS was equally big and emotional for me. Hated Justice League because they basically destroyed everything I loved. from the realism to the score. WB needs to put their **** together and make MOS 2. Henry loves that character and recasting him will be a most stupid thing WB can do after ruining JL. not because I am his fan, because I don't know a better person who will portray modern superman better.

 

[Hoody999]

Cavill was an actor who made me fall in love with cinematic superman. I was porn in 90s I'm sorry but previous versions look funny to me and can't take it serious. Why I loved MOS so much was the sense of realism. emotion, dramatic aspect of the movie and how deep and different it was from nowadays superhero genre. I was really impressed and barely could breathing while I was watching fight scenes at cinema because it was something I have never seen before and I have seen every marvel and superher movie well at least modern ones. that's what BREATHTAKING means. BvS was equally big and emotional for me. Hated Justice League because they basically destroyed everything I loved. from the realism to the score. WB needs to put their **** together and make MOS 2. Henry loves that character and recasting him will be a most stupid thing WB can do after ruining JL. not because I am his fan, because I don't know a better person who will portray modern superman better.

Yep, that pretty much reflects my thoughts as well.

Let's hope WB don't screw up again and recast 1/3, keep 1/3 and forget the final 1/3 of the Justice League Team......

 

[hbhf]

That ship's sailed. After everything that's happened the odds of them making a Man of Steel 2 are astronomically small. When we see Superman again, it's not gonna be called MOS2, and it's likely gonna be a new actor. Definitely a new director.

 

[Alatar]

I think BvS's week 2 box office drop-off was attributable mostly to the 26% RT score. That is an absolute kiss of death with respect to all those that didn't buy advanced tickets. Granted, it was a dark, offbeat, and thematically complex film. It was not a mainstream crowd-pleaser to begin with (which personally is something I actually like about it). So it was never going to have the mass acceptance of a MCU film. But I think most people that think to themselves, okay, sounds possibly interesting but I'll wait see it after the opening weekend--when they see a RT score of 26% they just rule it out from consideration.

 

[hbhf]

It had a massive, record breaking opening weekend though. And people talk. Whether it be in person or on social media. Like I said, it's pretty easy to see what happened: a bunch of people went to see it the opening weekend, and didn't feel like doing so again or recommending it to people.

It was not a mainstream crowd-pleaser to begin with (which personally is something I actually like about it). So it was never going to have the mass acceptance of a MCU film.

Studios don't spend a whopping 250 million dollars on movies they don't expect to be crowd pleasers. "This was just for the hardcore fans" was the talking point after the fact, but again, it doesn't jibe with the amount of cash spent (or the studio's actions after it was released). If that's the case, this should've just been a lower budget niche film set out of continuity like The Joker with Joaquin Phoenix. But this was a movie they spent a fortune on and were clearly hoping to use it as a staging ground for their launch of a cinematic universe.

 

[Alatar]

Yeah I agree that the studio was out of touch with how non-mainstream it was at the time.

 

[sj2106]

I'm not WB's biggest fan but I don't understand the assumption that Cavil is blameless here. If he was demanding more money and creative control one can hardly blame WB for saying no. Yes he wanted to do MoS 2 but only under certain conditions it seems.

If they come up with a good story I honestly don't care which actor is playing the part, same with Batman.

I have more faith in Reeves and Abrams staying true to the characters comic roots than I do Zack Snyder. Prioritise story, make the movies character driven and not so reliant on CGI. Differentiate from Marvel rather than copy their formula.

Concentrate on solo movies to establish all the characters, Flash, Green Lantern, Batgirl etc and worry about crossovers much further down the line.

 

[Futurion]

. Differentiate from Marvel rather than copy their formula.

Concentrate on solo movies to establish all the characters, Flash, Green Lantern, Batgirl etc and worry about crossovers much further down the line.

So differentiate or copy the exact path Marvel took ten years ago?

 

[Nine Inch Nails]

Since cyborg was canceled. Do you think this one and batman were as well?