I dont get it, is numbered really worth a few hundred $$ more?

[IrishJedi]

I don't know where Sideshow collectors have gotten this notion that APs should somehow be worth more than numbered pieces, but it's wrong.

In the art world (which is where the term "Artists Proof" came from) APs are pretty much a last resort and are absolutely not preferred to a numbered piece from an official release. Technically, there can theoretically even be more APs of an item than numbered ones.

 

[cstojano]

I doubt the numbered editions will rise in value all that much. Maybe an extra $100 tops. The main benefit is that it'll help the piece retain its resale value but that is all. Don't expect it to rise in value dramatically.

And you certainly won't be able to sell a numbered for a 50% profit.

Sure but remember someone sold an Argonath for 700 beans just after it was released. This is a different bird of course but still. So a numbered Rivendell hit 510 on eBay and unnumbered have sold for 365. OK the split isn't exactly half off but its not a bad discount overall, basically getting the same statue with no number for 265 dollars (taking the profit from the numbered sale and buying an unnumbered piece on eBay with it).

The AP thing is weird. They seem to be runs within runs in some cases but in statues are much more limited. BUT, and this is a big but, if they aren't any different from a production piece then we are back to manufactured rarity again.

IrishJedi, you mentioned the art world. Are you taking about lithos, posters?? What kind of art. When I think art world I dont think anything mass produced which is why I asked.

 

[gagaliya]

I don't know where Sideshow collectors have gotten this notion that APs should somehow be worth more than numbered pieces, but it's wrong.

In the art world (which is where the term "Artists Proof" came from) APs are pretty much a last resort and are absolutely not preferred to a numbered piece from an official release. Technically, there can theoretically even be more APs of an item than numbered ones.

because of sideshow's horrible paint that are mass produced by min wage unskilled chinese workers. AP usually means the paint app is much better and close to what the artist intended the piece to look like. Hence why they are worth more, because you know you are getting a good piece.

I would pay more for AP.

 

[cstojano]

because of sideshow's horrible paint that are mass produced by min wage unskilled chinese workers. AP usually means the paint app is much better and close to what the artist intended the piece to look like. Hence why they are worth more, because you know you are getting a good piece.

I would pay more for AP.

Is it confirmed that the APs are actually any better painted though?

 

[theguru1]

Is it confirmed that the APs are actually any better painted though?

That can depend on the company. In some cases, AP's really are initial paint up's and proofs for the Artist, which could make the paint work better/different from production items.

However, most of the time, any AP's are in fact the same production run and just not numbered and then given to the artist that sculpted, etc the piece. So the paint work, etc would be no better/different then any of the others produced as part of the hand painting process.

If what you really want is one that is better painted, then outside of gettign someone else to do it, then the item you want is the Paint Master. That is the statue which is painted inhouse and used as reference for the production run. In other words, this is how it should look, mass produce that as near as you can, within the alotted budget.
Needless to say, your chances of getting the Paint Master, is pretty much 0.

 

[gagaliya]

That can depend on the company. In some cases, AP's really are initial paint up's and proofs for the Artist, which could make the paint work better/different from production items.

However, most of the time, any AP's are in fact the same production run and just not numbered and then given to the artist that sculpted, etc the piece. So the paint work, etc would be no better/different then any of the others produced as part of the hand painting process.

If what you really want is one that is better painted, then outside of gettign someone else to do it, then the item you want is the Paint Master. That is the statue which is painted inhouse and used as reference for the production run. In other words, this is how it should look, mass produce that as near as you can, within the alotted budget.
Needless to say, your chances of getting the Paint Master, is pretty much 0.

I dont know about other companies, but for sideshow i am always under the impression AP are produced either inhouse or used for demo/display, hence the paint is obviously near perfect. SS does not have massive APs as you can see by their annual charity auction, they have 1-2 AP pieces for a few random statues, and that's it. Hence why I think SS's AP is worth the money.

Arh Studios on the other hand produces limited run APs for retail sales (nothing wrong with that) but i am almost 99.9% certain they are painted by inhouse artists. I still have my eye on that AP athena.

 

[IrishJedi]

Pretty sure most of the APs are just unnumbered production pieces from the factory.

 

[tomandshell]

I thought the hypothetical point of an Artist Proof was that random pieces from the run could be pulled so that the artist (or whoever is involved in the production) could check the quality.

 

[theguru1]

I dont know about other companies, but for sideshow i am always under the impression AP are produced either inhouse or used for demo/display, hence the paint is obviously near perfect. SS does not have massive APs as you can see by their annual charity auction, they have 1-2 AP pieces for a few random statues, and that's it. Hence why I think SS's AP is worth the money.

I'm pretty sure that for SS, that is not the case, their AP's are normal production runs, given to artists, license, special guests, etc.

Yes, they have had a couple of AP's for charity auctions, but in most cases they have been long sold out items (Balrog, Ringwaith for example) and these are the last 1-2 AP's that they still have. Even so, they still would have been from the initial production run and really no different then a numbered item.

At the same time, they have had in those auctions, prototypes of statues that never went into production. Those are 1 off's, produced and painted inhouse and hence would have better paint work, not that you have anything to compare it with, since they never produced anymore.

 

[Mr Fell Beast]

There are two runs to this piece a limited run and an open run. I wanted one from the limited part of it. That's fine all they're doing is adding the number plus the extras. That's enough for me to pay retail for it as to why others might pay more its the limited nature of the first run with an ES.

What extras?

I never understood the numbered thing................BFD

 

[The Josh]

Rivendell has a print art print and numbered run of 300 for that piece. Orthanc has an edition size of 400 pieces with a 24k gold plated eye of Sauron pin.


People like to have edition sizes on their items to know that they should hold some value. If I had to choose I'd prefer them to have a set edition size along with one that's moderate in size of that run.

 

[FrodoEyes]

hang on hang on hang on!

Right - both 'versions' of Rivendell and Orthanc sold for the same price right? It's just that the first 300 people to order got a number.
So, there aren't 2 different priced versions by Weta, it's just what people on ebay are willing to spend, right?
Besides, in the auctions posted by gaagaa, one's a buy-it-now set by the seller at what price they want to sell it for, not what people are actually bidding. BIN's are usually priced up far too much anyway, so i'd pay more attention to the normal auctions that people are actually bidding on.

 

[Fritz]

If I were ordering at retail when a product was first release I would go for the limited numbered item assuming the price was the same because of the perceived value of a pseudo limited edition. If buying on the secondary market later down the road, I would buy the cheaper open edition if they both looked the same and didn't have any special extras to the actual item. This is all based on value. If I were filthy rich where price was no object I would buy the more expensive limited item just because I want to be cool.

 

[DaveMac]

What was the question again ?

 

[Mr Fell Beast]

Art Print and a silly pin????

Really???

Still just does not make sense for a pin.....really.............

 

[The Josh]

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

I got both of the pieces in the numbered run because I wanted the environment, wanted part of the number run, and thought having the print/pin would be cool. So like I said different strokes for different folks.

 

[Obsidian]

I have to agree that in most cases paying large premiums say 30%+ for the limited versions with just a print or pin is a poor investment. Paying a small premium at release or paying more than you would get the open edition for from a 3rd party dealer would also make sense. But paying 50% more from someone on eBay is a waste of money in many collectors eyes and that is why in the end, it won't payoff. However, if you don't care about it being a good buy then go for it.

 

[DaveMac]

Art Print and a silly pin????

Really???

Still just does not make sense for a pin.....really.............

Your in the wrong game if you are trying to fathom the mind of a 'true fan' collector

There are just as many who will look at (pick any random piece you want) statue/maquette/figurine etc and say "$200? Really? For THAT?"

The pin and print are extras to support the numbered edition and prompt interest in it, that's all, at no extra cost. I will wait and pick up the open editions when I can and leave the allure of the extra bits and numbers to the true 'fans' ( 'fan' = fanatic).

If you want it bad enough you will pay it. We are probably all guilty of it at some point as collectors

 

[Mr Fell Beast]

Your in the wrong game if you are trying to fathom the mind of a 'true fan' collector

There are just as many who will look at (pick any random piece you want) statue/maquette/figurine etc and say "$200? Really? For THAT?"

The pin and print are extras to support the numbered edition and prompt interest in it, that's all, at no extra cost. I will wait and pick up the open editions when I can and leave the allure of the extra bits and numbers to the true 'fans' ( 'fan' = fanatic).

If you want it bad enough you will pay it. We are probably all guilty of it at some point as collectors

You are right to pay more for a pin is not in the right frame of mind...

 

[DaveMac]

Being of unstable mind is a requirement of any true 'collector'