Deak Starkiller
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Indiana Jones & The Kingdom of The Crystal Skull Discussion Thread (Spoilers)
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How in the world did we start talking about Avatar in an Indy thread? 
I kind of agree with Carl's curiosity on this one. There's a difference between a good flick, which Avatar is, and one that has been elevated to cult status, which Avatar is not but many seem to think it's on that level.
I think it was just good timing. Moviegoers were ready for something new in filmmaking technology, coupled with the revived 3-D craze, and a ho-hum familiar story becomes a smash hit. I don't see its popularity lasting however, only because the technology itself will become old. Like everything else, Hollywood will 3-D us to death and what people like about Avatar now, they will hate five years from now.
I kind of agree with Carl's curiosity on this one. There's a difference between a good flick, which Avatar is, and one that has been elevated to cult status, which Avatar is not but many seem to think it's on that level.
I think it was just good timing. Moviegoers were ready for something new in filmmaking technology, coupled with the revived 3-D craze, and a ho-hum familiar story becomes a smash hit. I don't see its popularity lasting however, only because the technology itself will become old. Like everything else, Hollywood will 3-D us to death and what people like about Avatar now, they will hate five years from now.
DinoLast
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I don't know about that.
For me those two films kinda tarnished the first one a little.
The Matrix is still a great movie though, especially if you can try and wipe the sequels from your mind
TheObsoleteMan
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The Matrix sequels should completely ignored. The original is it's own self contained story and told everything that needed to be told. If it had been intended to be a trilogy, Neo would've become the One in the 3rd movie, not the first. You don't shoot your wad with the first flick if you have two more you still have to make. It would be like Luke Skywalker becoming a jedi in A New Hope. The sequels were a cash grab when the first became a sleeper hit, nothing more.
Extremely doubtful considering that it picked up its Golden Globe Best Dramatic Picture nomination on December 15th, four days before the film was actually released to the public. It could have bombed for all they knew at the time.
You must really be overthinking this if it isn't painfully obvious (and I say that because I know you're no dummy when it comes to the "magic" of cinema.) We can all agree that it didn't give us the next Luke Skywalker, Indiana Jones, Frodo, or Buzz Lightyear. What it DID provide is the incredibly elusive combination of escapist transportation to a truly magical, alien feeling and amazing looking world and white knuckle crowd pleasing excitement. What we all wanted from Phantom Menace but were denied. Imagine TPM the way we wanted it to be, all the magic of that far away galaxy but with Anakin being 25 years old, Jar Jar a badass (or apparently even a hottie), and Darth Maul fleshed out with more scenes to chew and an appropriately satisfying finale. Cameron gave us that with Avatar.
But we get that fairly regularly anyway. My point is that AVATAR didn't provide anything special in this regard at all. I honestly don't feel we got one of those rare once-in-a-lifetime films here. It was just another blockbuster spectacle. But a good one. Maybe because most of them nowadays are utter crap and it isn't is the reason it's being over-valued?
Eh. To each his own, but I didn't get that at all here. In fact, the direct comparisons to SW (other than genre and FX) still baffle me.
Oh, and Neytiri isn't "hot" to me, either. Maybe that's because I'm not into 9' tall blue cat chicks with cartoon eyes and no ****s.
thenammagazine
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That I can agree with. And that would mean it was successful for the same reasons Titanic was successful. But instead of theatre goers using it to escape the torrential downpours of El Nino, they likely used it as a 3hr jaunt to escape the realities of the recession, though there are countless other things they likely should have spent the cash on. It would also mean that Avatar didn't achieve what it did on it's own merits.
Not buying the 9ft tall topless blue chicks either. People that think that ...cough - Neil - cough... likely drool over anime, manga and other comic book stuff like that as well.
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I honestly find any fanboy drooling over Neytiri disturbing and unsettling. I mean... really??
These folks need to watch SPLICE. Problem is, they'd probably get their rocks off instead of examining their own nature.
These folks need to watch SPLICE. Problem is, they'd probably get their rocks off instead of examining their own nature.
LOTRFan
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It is odd, no doubt. 
tomandshell
Blue Flame of the West/Mod
It's too bad that Darth Maul didn't get the multilayered richness and engrossing character development that Quaritch had in Avatar.
I love Quaritch (really because of Lang's performance more than anything else, because on paper he's as one-dimensional as they come) but that is funny.
I said imagine if Maul had been "fleshed out with more scenes to chew." 
We actually know quite a bit about Quaritch as far as adventure movie villains go. We know what he did on earth, what undoubtedly shaped his outlook on Pandora the first day he set foot into the jungle, how he treats and rewards his own men, and how many options he'll let play out before he lowers the boom in his own style. He also had quite a few great scenes throughout the movie, unlike a certain high flying Sith apprentice.
Quaritch might not be the next Darth Vader, but he's definitely on the level of a Tarkin or Belloq. What more do you want?
thenammagazine
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We actually know quite a bit about Quaritch as far as adventure movie villains go. We know what he did on earth, what undoubtedly shaped his outlook on Pandora the first day he set foot into the jungle, how he treats and rewards his own men, and how many options he'll let play out before he lowers the boom in his own style. He also had quite a few great scenes throughout the movie, unlike a certain high flying Sith apprentice.
Quaritch might not be the next Darth Vader, but he's definitely on the level of a Tarkin or Belloq. What more do you want?
And yet the irony is people will remember Maul longer.
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Initially James Camerson's track record before Titanic?
The outstanding and amazing special effects. Period.
Eh. To each his own, but I didn't get that at all here. In fact, the direct comparisons to SW (other than genre and FX) still baffle me.
Why would that baffle you? Let go of SW as a merchandising global phenomenon (because NO movie will EVER be able to compare to THAT) and think of it as just a movie going experience. Lots of movies have been given direct comparisons in that regard, and it usually is quite laughable. I remember when Stargate was quoted as "Indiana Jones meets Star Wars."
And the Fifth Element, Independence Day, even last year's Star Trek. It really happens quite frequently. But the only movies to truly live up to the comparisons IMO have been Jurassic Park, LOTR, and Avatar. Obviously the visuals have a lot to do with it. And as far as those are concerned, if you can really pop in the Blu-ray and watch the scene where Jake kneels before the Tree of Souls and prays to Eywa and tell me that isn't the most amazingly realized SFX character in the history of cinema (visually speaking of course) then I don't know what to say. If someone were to cross their arms in 1977 and say "what's so special about any of these visuals?" while watching SW you just have to resign to the fact that there really isn't any verbal convincing that will actually do any good. That's just what I believe the rest of the world "got" when they saw Avatar. If that still baffles you then I don't know what else to say.
And yet the irony is people will remember Maul longer.
Can't argue with that.
thenammagazine
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Why would that baffle you? Let go of SW as a merchandising global phenomenon (because NO movie will EVER be able to compare to THAT) and think of it as just a movie going experience. Lots of movies have been given direct comparisons in that regard, and it usually is quite laughable. I remember when Stargate was quoted as "Indiana Jones meets Star Wars."
And the Fifth Element, Independence Day, even last year's Star Trek. It really happens quite frequently. But the only movies to truly live up to the comparisons IMO have been Jurassic Park, LOTR, and Avatar. Obviously the visuals have a lot to do with it. And as far as those are concerned, if you can really pop in the Blu-ray and watch the scene where Jake kneels before the Tree of Souls and prays to Eywa and tell me that isn't the most amazingly realized SFX character in the history of cinema (visually speaking of course) then I don't know what to say. If someone were to cross their arms in 1977 and say "what's so special about any of these visuals?" while watching SW you just have to resign to the fact that there really isn't any verbal convincing that will actually do any good. That's just what I believe the rest of the world "got" when they saw Avatar. If that still baffles you then I don't know what else to say.
Can't argue with that.
Actually, I've seen some Japanese 3D CG work that puts it to shame. But that stuff seldom, if ever, gets a theatrical release here in the states.
Obviously I (and the movie going public) can only compare it to movies that we actually have access to.
What CG are you referring to? From actual movies or just tech demos?
thenammagazine
Super Freak
Obviously I (and the movie going public) can only compare it to movies that we actually have access to.
It was a movie and was so photo-realistic I was actually completely surprised and impressed. I'll have to check my collection and see if I own it. I don't remember if it was the Final Fantasy film or something else (leaning toward something else though).
Khev, STAR WARS wasn't just a "global merchandising phenomenon". It instantly entrenched itself as a permanent piece of pop culture that has spanned 30+ years and multiple generations. It transcended beyond just being a movie/merchandise event in ways that AVATAR will never dream of approaching. It is and always will be immeasurably more iconic and recognizable. And you know it. That's why the direct comparisons are misplaced. AVATAR has not earned the right to be considered in that status (unless box office is the main criteria). It's not even as iconic as INDY, LOTR, BATMAN, etc.
And, no, I really don't think that Jake Sully is "the most amazingly realized SFX character in the history of cinema." I have the Blu-ray, and the FX are solid, but those characters still look no more photo-real to me than even the prawns in DISTRICT 9. Hell, I think Dr. Manhattan was just as good a CGI effect character, even though he's translucent and glowing, and also blue!. I'm not joking, though... I am 100% serious.
Incidentally, none is this is a knock on AVATAR. It is what it is. And that's a good, better-than-average Sci-Fi event movie that also had the advantage of a rare technical conceit that enticed curious moviegoers all over the world. But that's all it is.
And, no, I really don't think that Jake Sully is "the most amazingly realized SFX character in the history of cinema." I have the Blu-ray, and the FX are solid, but those characters still look no more photo-real to me than even the prawns in DISTRICT 9. Hell, I think Dr. Manhattan was just as good a CGI effect character, even though he's translucent and glowing, and also blue!
. I'm not joking, though... I am 100% serious.Incidentally, none is this is a knock on AVATAR. It is what it is. And that's a good, better-than-average Sci-Fi event movie that also had the advantage of a rare technical conceit that enticed curious moviegoers all over the world. But that's all it is.
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DinoLast
Super Freak
Lol I had to post this seeing as we are talking about Star Wars now
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