JND Studios: The Dark Knight - Bale Batman 1:3

[xpl0sive]

Imagine people not ordering something because they were underwhelmed by it.

Imagine being underwhelmed by a production piece that looks the same (if not better) as the prototype that was shown over a year ago, as though you expected something completely different.

Hot Toys collectors criticising a statue they had no intention of buying, and claiming they didn't buy it because they were underwhelmed by the additional portrait that most people likely won't use anyway...lol.

 

[user 72759]

Imagine being underwhelmed by a production piece that looks the same (if not better) as the prototype that was shown over a year ago, as though you expected something completely different.

Hot Toys collectors criticising a statue they had no intention of buying, and claiming they didn't buy it because they were underwhelmed by the additional portrait that most people likely won't use anyway...lol.

I was underwhelmed by the prototype too, so we’re just supposed to love products because they’re as good as the prototype was rather than compare them to the source material?

Insulting someone or a group based on what they collect seems pretty extreme. Especially when the difference is $1000 custom figures vs $2.5k statues. You’re trying to say “you can’t afford statues so you’re pretending this isn’t accurate” without actually saying it, because only someone who couldn’t afford this wouldn’t like it, right?

I could afford it and I chose not to buy it and that’s okay. It’s not worth what they’re charging for it IMO, not because I think it’s a lot of money, but because I’m not impressed by the end result.

I would have bought this if they nailed it. They didn’t nail the cowled likeness or the Bruce likeness and a lot of minor things are wrong with the suit. Even though I could make a cowl in 1:3 with my screen used assets I choose not to when the body still would need some bodyshopping and a full repaint too. Then it would still be stuck in a boring pose with Olive Oil arms.

If a statue company takes the time to get this accurate to what’s on screen I’ll buy it. Until then I’d rather have a scientifically 99.99% accurate cowl on a posable figure.

 

[xpl0sive]

I was underwhelmed by the prototype too, so we’re just supposed to love products because they’re as good as the prototype was rather than compare them to the source material?

Insulting someone or a group based on what they collect seems pretty extreme. Especially when the difference is $1000 custom figures vs $2.5k statues. You’re trying to say “you can’t afford statues so you’re pretending this isn’t accurate” without actually saying it, because only someone who couldn’t afford this wouldn’t like it, right?

I could afford it and I chose not to buy it and that’s okay. It’s not worth what they’re charging for it IMO, not because I think it’s a lot of money, but because I’m not impressed by the end result.

I would have bought this if they nailed it. They didn’t nail the cowled likeness or the Bruce likeness and a lot of minor things are wrong with the suit. Even though I could make a cowl in 1:3 with my screen used assets I choose not to when the body still would need some bodyshopping and a full repaint too. Then it would still be stuck in a boring pose with Olive Oil arms.

If a statue company takes the time to get this accurate to what’s on screen I’ll buy it. Until then I’d rather have a scientifically 99.99% accurate cowl on a posable figure.

I didn't insult you my friend, not sure how you came to that conclusion. I think you misinterpreted what I said.

The fact that you said you were underwhelmed by the prototype too proves my point. The product hasn't changed (for the worse anyway). You complained back then, yet you're making the same complaints now...repeatedly. Not only that, but you're trying to convince everyone else to share your opinion by claiming that heaps of other people are making the same complaints. That's what I don't get, and that's what I was trying to say. I never said you had to love it because the production piece came out good, I get that you never liked it, and that's my point. You never liked it to begin with, so repeating the same complaints now is odd, as though you expected something to change.

We're discussing the production piece here. I simply said I haven't seen anyone trashing it, apart from Hot Toys collectors and people who didn't order it because they didn't like it to begin with. You then replied with a smart a$$ comment (not that I actually care).

I never actually said you can't afford it at all, and certainly didn't imply it either. That's just an assumption you made...a total misinterpretation of my words. I know who you are. I also know you could most likely afford this if you wanted it. I also never implied you're pretending it's inaccurate. In fact, I agreed with you it's innacurate. I just don't agree it's to the extent that you're making it out. Maybe I'm just less fussy than you.

I literally just meant what I said. The very few people I've seen trash it are Hot Toys collectors, and people who didn't order it anyway (if you didn't order it, why would you even care what the production piece came out like?).

Hot Toys collectors don't like statues, and are biased towards figures. That's why they collect figures (at least some of them anyway), so they were never interested in this to begin with. They did the same thing with the QS piece in a group I'm in, and a bunch of them felt the need to compare it to their Hot Toys figures for whatever reason claiming they are better, so I'm not surprised that they may be doing it again.

It's very clear you're a figure collector through and through though. You claim you would have bought this if it was upto your standards, yet at the end you made fun of the pose, so clearly you never had any intention of ordering it even if the cowl, likeness and suit were upto your standard as you're simply not a statue guy. It's also why you keep sharing unsolicited pics of your custom figures.

Me personally I'm a statue guy. You could show the most realistic 1/6 or 1/4 figure ever created and I still wouldn't buy it. I could appreciate it for what it is, sure, but owning it doesn't interest me as I only want high end statues.

 

[user 72759]

I didn't insult you my friend, not sure how you came to that conclusion. I think you misinterpreted what I said.

If you sincerely think you’re not being dismissive and condescending I’d politely suggest you reassess your tone.

Not only that, but you're trying to convince everyone else to share your opinion by claiming that heaps of other people are making the same complaints. That's what I don't get, and that's what I was trying to say. I never said you had to love it because the production piece came out good, I get that you never liked it, and that's my point. You never liked it to begin with, so repeating the same complaints now is odd, as though you expected something to change.

Im not doing what you’re claiming. I said if you had to get one collectible of this character and couldn’t make any changes to it this is probably the one to go for. Im not repeating the same complaints, I most recently was discussing the Bruce likeness and you brought the conversation back to this. I mention people being critical of it because I have seen them doing so, and for that reason only. There is a significant group of people who are critical of it.

We're discussing the production piece here. I simply said I haven't seen anyone trashing it, apart from Hot Toys collectors and people who didn't order it because they didn't like it to begin with. You then replied with a smart a$$ comment (not that I actually care).

You’re telling us that the stated opinions of other people in this thread (as recently as one page back), and anyone you classify as “hot toys” or “figure” collectors don’t count. Only those who like this and bought it are allowed to have or voice an opinion on it. Do you see the problem here? It’s confirmation bias. You’re selecting the opinions you like and saying they matter while dismissing the rest.

I literally just meant what I said. The very few people I've seen trash it are Hot Toys collectors, and people who didn't order it anyway (if you didn't order it, why would you even care what the production piece came out like?).

See above + “why would I care?” Because I would have ordered it if I thought it was a near direct 1:3 scale replication of the screen used suit. Collecting and creating replications of screen used props and characters is my hobby, even if you only acknowledge me as a “figure collector”. I’ve made sculpts of my own and find discussions around likeness interesting. I have pieces in my collection from 1:43 scale to 1:1 scale, vehicles, figures, and props. If someone makes a piece I find exceptionally faithful to the source material I’ll buy it, regardless of format or scale. I, and anyone else critical of this statue, have as much right to be here as anyone else as long as we’re civil.

Hot Toys collectors don't like statues, and are biased towards figures. That's why they collect figures (at least some of them anyway), so they were never interested in this to begin with. They did the same thing with the QS piece in a group I'm in, and a bunch of them felt the need to compare it to their Hot Toys figures for whatever reason claiming they are better, so I'm not surprised that they may be doing it again.

I don’t have anything against statues except that until recently most were 1:4-1:3 scale and not more detailed than hot toys figures. The statue makers have recently upped the detail and I could be interested for the right release. A really faithful TDK or Begins Batman would be the starting point for me. As far as comparisons to Hot Toys figures, I’ll just quote you from a page back in this thread:

Oh right. Yeah not everyone likes it I think. Personally I think the the best Bruce Wayne sculpt out of the 3 1/3 statues. In fact, I prefer it over Hot Toys' efforts too.

Seems making comparisons to HTs figures isn’t that unreasonable and here you acknowledge not everyone likes the JND sculpt. In the case of the Queen statue I think their likeness and paint detail was much less technical than Hot Toys recent work. Of all the statues I think JND is the first to deliver on something that actually has more detail and complex paint than a 1/4 figure. Unfortunately I think it’s on a likeness that doesn’t take full advantage of it.

It's very clear you're a figure collector through and through though. You claim you would have bought this if it was upto your standards, yet at the end you made fun of the pose, so clearly you never had any intention of ordering it even if the cowl, likeness and suit were upto your standard as you're simply not a statue guy.

I started this interest/hobby about 3 years ago. I missed the peak of HT TDK releases. Funnily enough I was reading through the QS001 thread to see what I missed and found something that I think will sum up my feelings on this JND release.

The pose can be bland if everything else is faithful. If I’m not seeing the likeness and have other faults with the design then the pose being locked in is just another detriment, not the key decision maker of whether I buy or not.

It's also why you keep sharing unsolicited pics of your custom figures.

It’s hard not to read this as intentionally condescending.

At the end of the day this whole hobby is a luxury and there is absolutely no opinion or issue contained in this hobby (excluding ethical issues in manufacturing/labor/environmental) that’s important, let alone important enough for any of us to be uncivil towards each other. If I have been uncivil towards you, whether by my intent or by accident, I am sorry.

 

[xpl0sive]

If you sincerely think you’re not being dismissive and condescending I’d politely suggest you reassess your tone.

Im not doing what you’re claiming. I said if you had to get one collectible of this character and couldn’t make any changes to it this is probably the one to go for. Im not repeating the same complaints, I most recently was discussing the Bruce likeness and you brought the conversation back to this. I mention people being critical of it because I have seen them doing so, and for that reason only. There is a significant group of people who are critical of it.

You’re telling us that the stated opinions of other people in this thread (as recently as one page back), and anyone you classify as “hot toys” or “figure” collectors don’t count. Only those who like this and bought it are allowed to have or voice an opinion on it. Do you see the problem here? It’s confirmation bias. You’re selecting the opinions you like and saying they matter while dismissing the rest.

See above + “why would I care?” Because I would have ordered it if I thought it was a near direct 1:3 scale replication of the screen used suit. Collecting and creating replications of screen used props and characters is my hobby, even if you only acknowledge me as a “figure collector”. I’ve made sculpts of my own and find discussions around likeness interesting. I have pieces in my collection from 1:43 scale to 1:1 scale, vehicles, figures, and props. If someone makes a piece I find exceptionally faithful to the source material I’ll buy it, regardless of format or scale. I, and anyone else critical of this statue, have as much right to be here as anyone else as long as we’re civil.


I don’t have anything against statues except that until recently most were 1:4-1:3 scale and not more detailed than hot toys figures. The statue makers have recently upped the detail and I could be interested for the right release. A really faithful TDK or Begins Batman would be the starting point for me. As far as comparisons to Hot Toys figures, I’ll just quote you from a page back in this thread:

Seems making comparisons to HTs figures isn’t that unreasonable and here you acknowledge not everyone likes the JND sculpt. In the case of the Queen statue I think their likeness and paint detail was much less technical than Hot Toys recent work. Of all the statues I think JND is the first to deliver on something that actually has more detail and complex paint than a 1/4 figure. Unfortunately I think it’s on a likeness that doesn’t take full advantage of it.

I started this interest/hobby about 3 years ago. I missed the peak of HT TDK releases. Funnily enough I was reading through the QS001 thread to see what I missed and found something that I think will sum up my feelings on this JND release.
View attachment 611213
The pose can be bland if everything else is faithful. If I’m not seeing the likeness and have other faults with the design then the pose being locked in is just another detriment, not the key decision maker of whether I buy or not.

It’s hard not to read this as intentionally condescending.

At the end of the day this whole hobby is a luxury and there is absolutely no opinion or issue contained in this hobby (excluding ethical issues in manufacturing/labor/environmental) that’s important, let alone important enough for any of us to be uncivil towards each other. If I have been uncivil towards you, whether by my intent or by accident, I am sorry.

To be honest, there is way too much here to respond to as I feel like I've severely derailed this thread (sorry). What I will say though is that things can often be misinterpreted through text as it's hard to determine someone's tone or what they really mean.

I never intended to insult you and certainly wasn't implying any of the things you mentioned. This forum has a history of people coming into threads of statues they don't like for no other reason than to troll and continuously crap on the product. It can get pretty frustrating and annoying, so I may have reacted out of that frustration as that's what it kinda looked like at first.

I too apologise if I have been uncivil or have come across as condescending or rude. You're certainly entitled to your opinions and we all like what we like. I'm sorry bud.

 

[GaryPool]

I really don't feel like two people on your Instagram page constitutes many people disliking it. I've seen nothing but praise for it, but then again maybe there's a lot of other pages or discussions I don't follow or see that says otherwise. I imagine, because at least I would, if it came out bad the people who would be loudest about it are the one's who forked out the money for it. You could argue they bought it so are trying to like it, but I'd argue that if they were bad they'd stop being bought and complaints would be thrown at them. There's inaccuracies for sure, but they've never claimed to be 100% perfect. The details are great and the realism is phenomenal.

Personally I make concession to screen innacuracies in favour for realism. But have nothing much more to say until it's in hand.

Their Phoenix Joker that I own is probably their most innacurate, again from Kojun, but the realism carries it through. From the pictures I've seen it's not 100% there but it's definitely the best of the lot, and having three in hand I know that added realism will really carry it through to being an authentic copy of Batman on the shelf.

 

[GaryPool]

Looking beastly to me.

 

[user 72759]

I really don't feel like two people on your Instagram page constitutes many people disliking it.

I think you might be underestimating my following there sir. Also, ITT there’s been more than two people critical of it.

Looking beastly to me.

I’m sorry did something happen to this photo or is that some terrible defect?

 

[GaryPool]

I think you might be underestimating my following there sir. Also, ITT there’s been more than two people critical of it.

I’m sorry did something happen to this photo or is that some terrible defect?

I mean, I did see your post and two people said it looks like another actor. I don't think you can be won over, you make your own heads which I'm not going to disparage. But beyond this I'm not sure what more you're arguing for or trying to say, especially with your most recent comment.

The Hot Toys heads you like neither look realistic or as much like Christian Bale as the JND one does. I'm just not entirely sure what you're saying anymore, it's not screen accurate.

... okay? We all agree.

 

[user 72759]

I don't think you can be won over, you make your own heads which I'm not going to disparage as an artist myself, that would be lowly.

This is still an insult.

If you think my cowl is less accurate than this you’re factually wrong. I delivered the fiberglass, screen used mold master to the scanning studio myself. It’s as accurate as scientifically possible by today’s technology. You’re free to not like it and prefer JNDs improved QS001 sculpt, but if you disparage it for being inaccurate you are wrong.

 

[GaryPool]

This is still an insult.

If you think my cowl is less accurate than this you’re factually wrong. I delivered the fiberglass, screen used mold master to the scanning studio myself. It’s as accurate as scientifically possible by today’s technology. You’re free to not like it and prefer JNDs improved QS001 sculpt, but if you disparage it for being inaccurate you are wrong.

I edited that out before you replied for what it implied, and that's not what I meant. What I meant is that because you make your own heads and are 100% fixated on 100% screen accuracy, you won't be won over. I meant nothing by the quality of it which is why I edited it out as it reads completely wrong.

But regardless, what you said, whether true of false, highlights the point. Unless 100% as what you deem and what you make, it won't be good enough.

 

[user 72759]

To get this thread a little more back on topic, and because I think anyone interested in picking this up would like to know, what's the source of this photo and what's going on with the chin opening? Is this a photoshop gone wrong or is there somehow this much variance between copies?

 

[GaryPool]

To get this thread a little more back on topic, and because I think anyone interested in picking this up would like to know, what's the source of this photo and what's going on with the chin opening? Is this a photoshop gone wrong or is there somehow this much variance between copies?

It's an in-hand photo from a collector.

 

[user 72759]

It's an in-hand photo from a collector.

Have they posted any other shots of the front?
This asymmetry is what I’m curious about:

 

[Gipetto0812]

I have no skin in this game, but I will say, I never understood when ppl would say "__company name__ cowl is off" until OT made his custom and now it's something I can't unsee

That said, I think there's a catch 22 sometimes where ignorance really is bliss in this hobby even though lots of times we're chasing accuracy b/c then you can enjoy almost any piece for what it is rather than would it should/could be. I know sometimes I find more joy in the pieces that I know nothing about their costumes, construction etc.

I worry about if/when JND shows off their Cavill Superman b/c I've had the fully assembled screen costumes for MoS and BvS right before my eyes and know so much about their construction that, in a similar vein to how OT feels about this TDK Batman piece, I may end up not happy with what I see JND produce either, no matter how nice it actually looks. Time will tell though as they seem to improve with each piece they make.

 

[user 72759]

I have no skin in this game, but I will say, I never understood when ppl would say "__company name__ cowl is off" until OT made his custom and now it's something I can't unsee

That said, I think there's a catch 22 sometimes where ignorance really is bliss in this hobby even though lots of times we're chasing accuracy b/c then you can enjoy almost any piece for what it is rather than would it should/could be. I know sometimes I find more joy in the pieces that I know nothing about their costumes, construction etc.

I worry about if/when JND shows off their Cavill Superman b/c I've had the fully assembled screen costumes for MoS and BvS right before my eyes and know so much about their construction that, in a similar vein to how OT feels about this TDK Batman piece, I may end up not happy with what I see JND produce either, no matter how nice it actually looks. Time will tell though as they seem to improve with each piece they make.

FWIW this project has had the same effect on me. I can’t believe it’s all happened this year too. I look back at the DX19 prototype pictures and can’t believe only a year ago I was looking at it thinking maybe they finally nailed it and my QS001 would be obsolete. I got it in hand and the soft temples, egghead shape, and incorrect lines across the face were too much, then I couldn’t see the QS001 the same way and knew I had to get my hands on a screen used cowl of some sort.

It is interesting this suit is the only thing I’m this OCD about. I think the only “perfect” collectible I’ve ever gotten out of the box is 1:4 Vader, but I know there’s probably a community where someone says it’s crap because the mask isn’t asymmetrical enough or something.

It makes me wonder how off some other things are in reality. I remember seeing some of JND’s first stuff and thinking it looked perfect, then their Selina was close but a little off around the mouth IMO, then this release I felt was pretty off overall even if still solid. For all I know this could be the best statue they’ve ever released and I just have more reasonable expectations for everything else. I couldn’t begin to tell you if something was off about a Wonder Woman or Marvel based sculpt without forcing myself to do research on it.

It creates this weird paradox where figures/statues of characters you like less end up feeling perfect but it’s really just your knowledge and expectations are different.

 

[OmarColeccionador]

I made some instagram posts around when it was announced just sharing it and I posted my edit I made this week and in both instances different people have said he looks like either Jim Carrey or Sam Rockwell, the second one standing out more to me because I honestly had to google Sam Rockwell both times to figure out who he was. I think I’ve seen it elsewhere on others posts and on Reddit as well as earlier in this thread.


Kojun sculpted the Bruce likeness for the QS001 too right? Even though this new cowl isn’t perfect it’s an improvement over the HT 1/4 for sure. The Bruce sculpt on the other hand I feel takes a big step forward on realism but backwards on overall likeness. The QS001 has the better nose to chin area easily IMO and idk why but it’s like that whole area looks squished together on the JND.

I think slightly bigger eyes and slightly less pronounced cheek bones and the 1/4 sculpt would be perfect proportion wise. I really hope hot toys doesn’t eff up the mold for this and we can see the same sculpt with modern paint apps. Judging by their kind of disappointing DX19 Bruce I’m keeping my expectations low.

You think modern hot toys paint apps are better?

I'm a little bit worried about the new quarter scale re-release mainly because of the paint apps for the Bruce wayne sculpt

 

[user 72759]

You think modern hot toys paint apps are better?

I'm a little bit worried about the new quarter scale re-release mainly because of the paint apps for the Bruce wayne sculpt

That’s a good question. Their eyes have improved immensely since 2013, details like brows and hairlines are much better.

Overall skin tones might be more generic though technically more complex.

I have noticed their lips seem to be getting lighter and lighter and have less contrast. I think that’s pretty scene dependent in terms of accuracy.

 

[OmarColeccionador]

That’s a good question. Their eyes have improved immensely since 2013, details like brows and hairlines are much better.

Overall skin tones might be more generic though technically more complex.

I have noticed their lips seem to be getting lighter and lighter and have less contrast. I think that’s pretty scene dependent in terms of accuracy.

Exactly

Over the years they developed an incredible level of detail on the eyes but now they are using that so they can lower the quality on the more dificult paint apps like the details on the skin, hair or more importantly the likeness of the char (sculpt).
I just hope they can achive the same likeness of the previous one

 

[user 72759]

Exactly

Over the years they developed an incredible level of detail on the eyes but now they are using that so they can lower the quality on the more dificult paint apps like the details on the skin, hair or more importantly the likeness of the char (sculpt).
I just hope they can achive the same likeness of the previous one

I think precision is getting better across all companies and their eyes used to be the trickiest part. I think they’ve nearly perfected mass scale eye paint apps and the skin tones are much more finely layered with different shades.

I think the art direction and color palettes are the cause of the seemingly lack luster paint. When I look at the DX19 Bale under bright lights or magnification I’m blown away by the precision of the fine paint lines. It’s the muted brown color pallet that makes him look the wrong ethnicity that’s the issue.