Just How Stupid as a Culture Have We Become?

[DouglasMcc]

This topic may seem more like a Sandbox question, but I believe it fits here too since it relates to movies.

I have learned not to trust movie reviews over the last few years. I kinda agreed with some of the negative press on Spiderman 3, but I enjoyed Shrek 3. So, "professional" reviewers have become rather hit and miss when it comes to my tastes. But I still read reviews on Rotten Tomatoes ... to see if I can find a pearl of wisdom in the coal field of silly prose (p.s. anyone else tired of movie reviews trying to be creative or funny in their review?!? Just tells us about the damn movie!). Well, I was going to go see Pirates 3 yesterday no matter what. But I checked out the reviews for the heck of it. Nearly every major review said the plot was "confusing" and "hard to follow". Since they all seemed to agree, I thought that might be a valid problem. However, after sitting through that amazing film ... I feel it was better than the second and close to the first ... I came out wondering what the hell the reviewers were talking about. The plot was pure simplicity (and I don't mean that in a negative way). They rescue Jack, then band together to save the "pirate" way. How complicated is that? Sure, there were a lot of double-crosses, but they were all in character and were easily to follow. And besides, this was a PIRATE movie ... people who are notorious for not getting along/ crossing each other. So, why is everyone and their grandmother complaining about it being complicated ... esp. college trained reviewer who watch movies for a living?

That got me thinking about video games. Up until the last few years, most of the video games we got from Japan were watered-down / neutered versions of themselves. The challenge level was vastly reduced or parts of the plot were removed because "Americans didn't like the challenge." I always thought that was silly, but it makes me wonder now. Maybe, we as a people are that lazy ... that stupid. Now, that's not to imply everyone. When you are making a broad characterization, it's only intended to apply to a majority, not the whole group. But, it does seem like the majority of American's don't want to think or be challenged. Another point of proof: I went to rent a couple of movies at Blockbuster this week and they had put up a huge sign "Apocalypto is only available in the Mayan language with English subtitles." And, I actually saw 2 or 3 couples read the sign and walk away from the shelf in disgust. One man even had the audacity to say out loud, "That's stupid ... who wants to read a movie." I had a similar experience trying to get my aunt, who loves Sci Fi, to watch Pan's Labyrinth. She was so excited about the plot until I mentioned it was in subtitles, then you could see that excitement drain away.

Is this all a sign of some mass stupidity ... similar to Mike Judge's vision of the future in Idiocracy (a funny film in it's own right) ? Or have we Americans simply become too lazy to appreciate intricate works of art / entertainment? In the end, I wasn't so sure myself, so I figured I would pose the question and see how others felt.

 

[Bannister]

I consider some of it stupidity and some of it just people want to watch a movie and not be challenged at all. They see films as entertainment and nothing more. I don't consider my brother an idiot, but I know for a fact I could not get him to watch a subtitled movie or one in black and white. Hell I remember when we saw Sin City. Afterwards he said to me, you didn't tell me it was in black and white. I said I didn't tell you because you probably wouldn't have wanted to see it. He didn't disagree.

 

[pixletwin]

Yes. I would ellaborate, but I am too lazy.

 

[DarkArtist81]

Man, you are so right with this thread.... Idiocracy was funny in the way it showed just how stupid Americans could become....

We as a culture hate challenge. I remember buying my ticket to see Pan's Labyrinth and the girl at the counter had to remind me... "It's in Spanish, with English subtitles....are you sure you still want to see it?".

It's amazing to me that someone would walk away from such a wonderful work of art simply because they had to read instead of only listen? Same problem with trying to get friends or family to watch Hero or Sin City or Apocalypto, they don't want to because it makes them think too much. Because there was not a lot of flashy color and ****ies. It makes me sick.

I remember a few years back when "You Got Served" was number 1 at the box office... I couldn't believe it. A flashy, no story film about dancing and it's Number 1?? I knew it was the beginning of the end...

Reviewers are beginning to reflect that trend. They tear a film apart if it's in any way smart or if the plot is too thick.... unless of course it's a tear jerker or a film aimed specifically at winning Oscars. I don't pay attention to reviews anymore.... Because they are almost always wrong. Spidey 3 is not worthy of the great praise they gave it and Pirates 3 IS worth more than what they gave it.

I just hope that things don't continue to get worse.... I really don't want to see a film that's just a naked ass on the screen for 2 hours....

 

[Bannister]

Man, you are so right with this thread.... Idiocracy was funny in the way it showed just how stupid Americans could become....

We as a culture hate challenge. I remember buying my ticket to see Pan's Labyrinth and the girl at the counter had to remind me... "It's in Spanish, with English subtitles....are you sure you still want to see it?".

It's amazing to me that someone would walk away from such a wonderful work of art simply because they had to read instead of only listen? Same problem with trying to get friends or family to watch Hero or Sin City or Apocalypto, they don't want to because it makes them think too much. Because there was not a lot of flashy color and ****ies. It makes me sick.

I remember a few years back when "You Got Served" was number 1 at the box office... I couldn't believe it. A flashy, no story film about dancing and it's Number 1?? I knew it was the beginning of the end...

Reviewers are beginning to reflect that trend. They tear a film apart if it's in any way smart or if the plot is too thick.... unless of course it's a tear jerker or a film aimed specifically at winning Oscars. I don't pay attention to reviews anymore.... Because they are almost always wrong. Spidey 3 is not worthy of the great praise they gave it and Pirates 3 IS worth more than what they gave it.

I just hope that things don't continue to get worse.... I really don't want to see a film that's just a naked ass on the screen for 2 hours....

Electrolytes. They're what plants crave.

 

[DarkArtist81]

Electrolytes. They're what plants crave.

"But.....it's got electrolytes..."

 

[DouglasMcc]

I just hope that things don't continue to get worse.... I really don't want to see a film that's just a naked ass on the screen for 2 hours....

If they do ever make that film, you just know Harvey Keitel will be in there somewhere

 

[DarthNeil]

Read Ray Bradbury's phenomenally prophetic (orginally written in 1950) novel Fahrenheit 451 if you haven't already.

As a culture we're getting everything watered down and simplified to make things easier---

Brains turning to mush and the problems that go from there. I won't go into how in the novel the country goes to war and the people just accept it (oh, and war is declared when the protagonist is standing at a gas station---)

Movies--- reviews of said movies--- a society that's not reading anything of substance by and large--- it's all small parts of a greater problem.

 

[Buttmunch]

I am a film major and I even think the reviewers are up in the night. The only confusing thing in PotC: AWE was the Dutchman curse (which appearently had a very important line cut out which made it so confusing). I then don't understand the poor reviews on anything that isn't an art film. One thing I've noticed with the local paper is that they won't even review horror movies unless it was the only film that came out that week. I'll be surprised if they review Rob Zombie's Halloween.

In my film classes, about 50% of them were in foreign languages with subtitles. The first film I was a little annoyed with but after the thrid or so I really didn't care anymore and was able to apreiciate the beauty of the original language and read the subtitles. So yeah, I do think Americans as a whole are pretty lazy about that sort of thing. When my family and I went to Pan's they couldn't believe it was in Spanish and not dubbed. I just rolled my eyes

 

[Bannister]

If they do ever make that film, you just know Harvey Keitel will be in there somewhere

 

[Memnoch]

I remember last weekend when I tried to rent Pan's Labryinth, the girl at Blockbuster said, "Uh, you know it has subtitles?" and as I was walking out (because they had no copies) I simply said "Yeah." when I felt like saying "Yes, because I actually like cultural movies". I wish we could purge all those that felt like just being lazy and not having a challenge but then there would only be enough people to fill one state.

 

[Bannister]

One thing I've noticed with the local paper is that they won't even review horror movies unless it was the only film that came out that week. I'll be surprised if they review Rob Zombie's Halloween.

To be fair, alot of horror movies don't get screened for critics beforehand.

 

[DarthNeil]

I remember last weekend when I tried to rent Pan's Labryinth, the girl at Blockbuster said, "Uh, you know it has subtitles?" and as I was walking out (because they had no copies) I simply said "Yeah." when I felt like saying "Yes, because I actually like cultural movies". I wish we could purge all those that felt like just being lazy and not having a challenge but then there would only be enough people to fill one state.

When I bought the double DVD set from Wal-Mart the clerk asked me "You do know that---" I interrupted him and said of course I did or else why would I be buying the movie unless I knew SOMETHING about it. He said that many people had tried to return it after putting it in their DVD players and finding GASP subtitles... I wondered if these people were also putting it in for their young kids to watch unsupervised because it's a fairie movie...

Sad

 

[Bannister]

I remember last weekend when I tried to rent Pan's Labryinth, the girl at Blockbuster said, "Uh, you know it has subtitles?" and as I was walking out (because they had no copies) I simply said "Yeah." when I felt like saying "Yes, because I actually like cultural movies". I wish we could purge all those that felt like just being lazy and not having a challenge but then there would only be enough people to fill one state.

Hey, it's not her fault. She is just covering her ass. If she doesn't say anything she risks some irate customer *****ing at her for not telling them.

 

[Bannister]

When I bought the double DVD set from Wal-Mart the clerk asked me "You do know that---" I interrupted him and said of course I did or else why would I be buying the movie unless I knew SOMETHING about it. He said that many people had tried to return it after putting it in their DVD players and finding GASP subtitles... I wondered if these people were also putting it in for their young kids to watch unsupervised because it's a fairie movie...

Sad

When Grindhouse came out, I read about certain theatres having signs up letting people know that the scratches and film breaks were all part of the movie, so not to complain.

 

[gideon]

It has been fairly well documented that people are both a lot smarter and a lot dumber at the same time. The reason for this is the expansion of each persons boundaries in society and what they are required to know to function in those boundaries.

When we were a rural society - pre 1900 - most people lived within five miles where they were born, worked there, and died there. As late as 1950 sociologists used to metion something called propinquity (hope that spelling is right). The idea was that over half of all American would marry someone who had lived within five miles of them and then live in that same radius.

A farmer had to know about his farm - but very little else since his world was pretty much limited to that farm the vast majority of the time. Same with a factory laborer who had to learn a fairly uncomplicated set of physical tasks and simply repeat them. You did not have to know virtually anything about the world outside of the few miles of your world.

I remember seeing a test that was given to students graduating from the 8th grade around the turn of the century and I doubt if 10% of high school graduates could pass it today with detailed questions about historical analysis and theory. Of course, those kids 100 years ago would not have been able to pass test containing lots of advanced math and science that kids today have to master.

We are both smarter and dumber.

Because each of our worlds are much larger and we have to know much more about what is in those boundaries we thus learn only surface things about each and our knowledge is pretty basic and rarely advances to anything complicated. Unless of course we specialize in it because of our job or personal interests.

Regarding films: I have taken film appreciation and history classes and taught them also. A professional reviewer is trained in what to watch and how to watch it. They learn the difference between what is "good" ( in terms of acting, writing, direction, etc) and what is "bad". They also have the handicap of seeing hundreds of films each year and remember what science fiction writer Sturgeon said ' 90% of everything is crap. Plus the professional film reviewer has seen thousands of films, hopefully going back many decades. It is very hard to rave on about the wonders of LEAP OF FAITH when you have seen ELMER GANTRY and saw it done much better. It is difficult to appreciate the base "humor" of something like KNOCKED UP when you have seen THE MIRACLE OF MORGANS CREEK and saw the subject handled with wit. charm and expertise. I could give a hundred other comparisons but the idea would be the same.

In one of the film classes I took we heard from a professional food critic who talked about what it was to be a critic of anything and get paid for it. She said that the vast majority of people have only two major rules about what constitutes "good food". First, it is fairly cheap, second, you don't get sick after you eat it. Even something simple like tasting good was not as important as the first two.

Now apply that to films. Most people do not have really high standards. How many people today have even watched a silent film and appreciated it? How many people even know the difference between a producer and a director and what they do? Most people simply want to be entertained, or to see something "cool" or something that excites them. They care nothing for higher values. Like the food critic said, they just want it cheap and not throw up after they watched it.

 

[Bardoon]

Good points gideon.

I've also found throughout society,work,whatever...that you always should dumb things down for people because not everyone remembers nor can they "read within the lines". Now something to you that is bright as day might be a real struggle for other people and this can vary for those who have different backgrounds,interests,etc. I come from an art background and my girlfriend comes from a business/financial background...we think the same on some stuff but on other issues we're on totally different wavelengths.I catch things she doesn't see or know...and vice-versa.

In film, what you get with some of these critics is a number of issues. Some of these critics can be under the pay of a parent company that is a rival in films to a company that has put out a film they are going to review....so it is no surprise to me that if the top level suits feel that they can prevent at least one person from going to see that movie with their critic's negative review...they might put that pressure down.I know it can be a sleezy business sometimes.

Another thing is some of these critics don't review the source materials (such as the case with '300' which some critics neglicted to discover that it was actually based on Frank Miller's graphic novel and HIS depiction of the Battle of Thermapolyae and not Hollywood's own vision) or don't really have any experience with being a critic...does a critic flash his credentials every time you see them on TV or read what they say in the newspaper?Nope.

Bottomline,it's ONE person's opinion...and ultimately it's your opinion that should matter the most to you.

 

[gideon]

Bardoon ... in your final statement you have hit upon something that is key to this entire discussion.

Bottomline,it's ONE person's opinion...and ultimately it's your opinion that should matter the most to you.

For better or worse, we live in a nation and in a time when people have internalized the idea of democratic values and have applied them to the worth of individual opinion. I would guess that most people would agree with you about the value of individual opinion. We use to defer to others who had more education, more experience, more common sense about things that we did. In fact, for a person to argue with an expert at one time would have been considered folly or just plain stupid. But that time has passed - again for better or worse.

I believe that the idea of one man one vote has changed this forever. People are rightly taught that each persons vote - cast for any reason and by anyone no matter how high or how common - is of equal weight. And it is. One vote is one vote. When we vote for president, the vote of a Harvard professor who teaches doctoral level classes in Political Science and who has written a dozen books on the presidency counts exactly the same as an eighth grade dropout who has little or no idea about the government.

The Civil Rights Revolution of the 50's and 60's added to this as did the Womens Movement and other minority rights empowerment struggles. Today, many now believe that every opinion is just as good as as any other opinion.

Of course, that is stupidity at its height and pure arrogance. If you are offended at that remark, simply apply the "every opinion is as good as another" principle to things such as medical care, surgical advice, mechanical problems, or anything complicated. How many people would take the surgical advice of Uncle Elmer with his tenth grade rural education over a licensed medical doctor who has practiced surgery for twenty years? How many people would take the advice of your average bar waitress in tax matters over that of a licensed CPA who has been doing the job for decades?
How many people would take the opinion of the supermarket bagboy in matters of housing construction over that of a licensed contractor who has built hundreds of fine houses?

You get the idea.

But even when many people will concede to the expertise or experience of those in technical or highly skilled areas they refuse to make and concessions to the opinions of those who are highly educated or trained in matters of the arts, culture, entertainment, politics, or other more social areas of life.

 

[PosterBoyKelly]

I think the problem is this: We DO want to be challenged, BUT at the same time we're sadly way too susceptible to just take what we're fed, if that makes sense. The mass market LIKES a challenge, I mean there's lots of movies and shows that do that that make it. The problem is, is that Hollywood and the media like to dumb it down, keep the majority in their place. Suburban conformists happy to take what their given. Oh, no I'm not dissing the burbs. It happens EQUALLY in the city. A bunch of pseudo intellectuals wanking it to the sound of their own self-justified BS. Whatever fits their agenda at the moment is what they believe.

In the end, most people aren't as dumb as they seem, they have the capability to reach outside the box. I blame the media and Hollywood for just taking a lazy route and forcing it down most peoples throats. Look at other countries too though, too many are controlled by their media. US gets a lot blame for that, but look at the propaganda going on all over the world. It's not just us, it's everyone. Show me 1 damned country where people walk around with TOTALLY their own opinions, and are allowed to share them without being imprisoned, and base their opinions off of research they've done OUTSIDE the media. It's not there, it doesn't exist.


Sorry, I hate the damned news, left and right, and the willingness to believe what one wants to out of ease. Sorry for being long winded. Our culture isn't stupid, I think, just sedated. But we live in a world too where someone in a business suit who's a CEO thinks he/she's important. I like to think this, if the world ended what skills would I have worth a damn? Movie critic? HAHAHA dead. CEO? Probably worthless. It's like in one of the Hitchhikers Guide... books where everyone was sent to an abandoned planet who's positions in life were of no greater good to the rest of us.

 

[Vader AL]

there may be too much analyzing going on here. people like the different type movies some like to think, some just want to be entertained, etc. they are just movies afterall and are for entertainment. i like them all depending on my mood. i find it ironic that this is being discussed in a toy collector forum.