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Yeah that only works if we didn't see him beat up an ice cream man for her as a child. He genuinely cared about her.

Yes, but this is like Thanos caring for Gamora. Fisk's concept of caring does not equate to how normal humans think of caring for other people. I think this is him caring for her much in the same way you'd care about a thing you own.

He learned multiple languages in Daredevil.
Which I think adds to this IMO. He is capable of learning multiple languages, but he did not think it important enough to learn sign for Maya.
 
Yes, but this is like Thanos caring for Gamora. Fisk's concept of caring does not equate to how normal humans think of caring for other people. I think this is him caring for her much in the same way you'd care about a thing you own.
Not really though. He cared about her before he ever knew he could use her.

Thanos always intended to use Gamora from day 1.
 
Not really though. He cared about her before he ever knew he could use her.

Thanos always intended to use Gamora from day 1.
I'm not sure about that. We learned in the show that her Uncle Henry was also involved in Fisk's illegal operations, so Fisk could have become Maya's "guardian" to maintain leverage on Henry to keep him in line so that operations continued to run smoothly.
 
I'm not sure about that. We learned in the show that her Uncle Henry was also involved in Fisk's illegal operations, so Fisk could have become Maya's "guardian" to maintain leverage on Henry to keep him in line so that operations continued to run smoothly.
Don’t think so. He was genuinely upset about the ice cream guy being rude to her and he even wanted to change his bloody clothes so that she wouldn’t see and be afraid of him.

There was no reason for him to give that guy a beatdown of he wasn’t actually upset about it.
 
Don’t think so. He was genuinely upset about the ice cream guy being rude to her and he even wanted to change his bloody clothes so that she wouldn’t see and be afraid of him.

There was no reason for him to give that guy a beatdown of he wasn’t actually upset about it.
Well it's been well established that Fisk resorts to extreme violence as his default setting when he comes across something or someone he disagrees with so I don't see the ice cream guy beat down as proof of love. What was significant was his actions appealed to a misunderstood, frustrated, angry child and made her think that such a violent response was acceptable. I think he recognized in that moment that he could use that connection to manipulate/mold her as their relationship grew. And sure, maybe he came to really love her per his own warped definition but not from day one.
 
Well it's been well established that Fisk resorts to extreme violence as his default setting when he comes across something or someone he disagrees with so I don't see the ice cream guy beat down as proof of love. What was significant was his actions appealed to a misunderstood, frustrated, angry child and made her think that such a violent response was acceptable. I think he recognized in that moment that he could use that connection to manipulate/mold her as their relationship grew. And sure, maybe he came to really love her per his own warped definition but not from day one.
I mean I don’t really disagree, it can be both.

But if he can learn Mandarin and Japanese for Madame Gao and Nobu (two people that can speak English anyway) then he can learn ASL for Maya without hiring someone that he’s going to kill or spending a stupid amount of resources on a (ridiculous) auto-translation contact lens that was only used once :lol.

I dunno, just seems like an odd choice to have a character thats learned two of the hardest languages to learn in the world not learn sign language over the course of 2 whole decades.

Someone of his intellect level would surely have picked a good chunk of it up through the translations over that kind of time period.
 
I mean I don’t really disagree, it can be both.

But if he can learn Mandarin and Japanese for Madame Gao and Nobu (two people that can speak English anyway) then he can learn ASL for Maya without hiring someone that he’s going to kill or spending a stupid amount of resources on a (ridiculous) auto-translation contact lens that was only used once :lol.

I dunno, just seems like an odd choice to have a character thats learned two of the hardest languages to learn in the world not learn sign language over the course of 2 whole decades.

Someone of his intellect level would surely have picked a good chunk of it up through the translations over that kind of time period.
Yes either interpretation is supported by the material. One could argue that the Gao and Nabu situations are just more examples of his selfishness, as he learned their languages as part of his efforts to further his illicit empire whereas learning ASL wasn't necessary as he already had "control" of Maya. Regardless I completely agree about the ridiculous nature of the contact lens though - someone as astute as Fisk would have realized at that point in time that would be viewed by Maya as a too little, too late empty gesture. Same with killing the interpreter - surely he would have leveraged her to the point where she wouldn't dare betray him. Maybe the showrunners felt it was necessary to remind the casual viewers of Fisk's ruthlessness but I found it an odd choice.
 
Yes either interpretation is supported by the material. One could argue that the Gao and Nabu situations are just more examples of his selfishness, as he learned their languages as part of his efforts to further his illicit empire whereas learning ASL wasn't necessary as he already had "control" of Maya. Regardless I completely agree about the ridiculous nature of the contact lens though - someone as astute as Fisk would have realized at that point in time that would be viewed by Maya as a too little, too late empty gesture. Same with killing the interpreter - surely he would have leveraged her to the point where she wouldn't dare betray him. Maybe the showrunners felt it was necessary to remind the casual viewers of Fisk's ruthlessness but I found it an odd choice.
Yeah. Fisk learned those languages for his own gain, but it gained him some respect with them. Personally I feel he should have done the same with Maya, I don’t really believe she would’ve looked up to him that much if he couldn’t even be bothered to do that for her.

Still waiting to see Fisk be truly ruthless in the new MCU. He still feels a far cry from his Daredevil days.
 
Yeah. Fisk learned those languages for his own gain, but it gained him some respect with them. Personally I feel he should have done the same with Maya, I don’t really believe she would’ve looked up to him that much if he couldn’t even be bothered to do that for her.

Still waiting to see Fisk be truly ruthless in the new MCU. He still feels a far cry from his Daredevil days.
Yes, hopefully Feige's decision to scrap what they had done with Daredevil Reborn and starting over allows for that. The Echo post credits scene where it's implied that Fisk will be running for Mayor was an interesting twist. Imagine him winning and using the police to hunt down Daredevil as a criminal/vigilante.
 
I kinda hope that’s a lead up to Spider-Man 4 to be honest and Fisk is the main bad guy. We desperately need like a street level superhero movie with no world ending threat. I think that’s what makes marvel so unique. They had heroes that saved the world and heroes that saved just neighborhoods or small communities or just the city itself.
Over time people wanted these world ending events and now they are starting to realize it gets boring having to fight an alien and there army every movie.
I miss more personal hero movies where it wasn’t the entire world at risk but just everyday corruption you see in todays world
 
I kinda hope that’s a lead up to Spider-Man 4 to be honest and Fisk is the main bad guy. We desperately need like a street level superhero movie with no world ending threat.

With Sony attached to everything Spider-Man I don’t think that’ll be the case at all.

Get ready for Kingpin joining the Sinister Six and running through walls like the Kool-Aid Man. :lol
 
Very late to the party, but I just finished watching this, and enjoyed it. Whatever the motivations for making something, if the end result is good then it is good and this was good. I didn't care for this character in Hawkeye but grew to really like her here. Also, it's always nice seeing D'Onoffrio as Fisk. I wasn't expecting him to be such a major force in the show as he was.
 
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