Most annoying Star Wars character

[a-dev]

My explanations here can't adequately address your objections (I actually agree with your Point A, pretty much entirely), but here's my best shot at trying to at least play devil's advocate:

Your Point A: It could be that Luke felt as though continuing to participate in the fight as a Jedi would just continue the problem that he sought to stop by ending the whole Order. By leaving Leia to fight without him, it would be like an exaggerated version of when he said "I'm endangering the mission" in ROTJ. And he also left the group on Endor to fend for themselves against the Imperial troops (taking down the shield generator was already a dangerous enough mission without the help of a Jedi that it had been contextualized as "crazy" earlier in ROTJ).

If I were to poke a hole in that comparison it would be that in ROTJ he left the group on Endor not to go sit on an island doing nothing but to fight the good fight in another major area.

For Luke, exiling himself and cutting off from the Force was his answer (though a short-sighted one that Yoda corrected him about).

Force ghosts - 'More powerful than you can possibly imagine' eh? I don't know I can imagine quite a bit. So Yoda tells him that cutting himself off from the force and thereby removing himself from the equation wasn't a great idea. Yeah thanks for that Captain Hindsight. Maybe you should have popped in for a coffee with that piece of advice before 5 planets got obliterated.

Epicurus comes to mind. Was he willing but not able? Able but not willing? etc etc

Your Point B: Almost the same reasoning as above. If Luke goes in to be a Force-wielding Jedi after learning of Han's death, that would make him look like a bigger fool for changing his mind about the Jedi needing to end. If Luke didn't understand the danger Han (and others) would be facing when he decided to leave, he'd be a moron. Changing his mind because Han died would've just confirmed his lack of foresight. That moronic lack of fundamental foresight would not be a good look for Luke's character either.

I know that these rationalizations are going to be unconvincing, but that's the problem with the TFA setup for me: I think *any and all* explanations would fail to justify Luke's exile. He should've never taken himself out of the picture; it just doesn't add up. Where you and I differ most is that I thought TLJ came close enough to making it at least a plausible pro-active and selfless strategy from a pro-active and selfless character who wouldn't otherwise abandon everyone when times are about to get much worse in a hurry. But I'm in the distinct minority here, and I understand that.

I just feel that TFA and the rest of TLJ weren't good enough as movies to make me want to rationalize it in the way that you do. But that brings me back to our primary point of agreement that TFA should get most of the blame for that by being such a lazy, unimaginative rehash for a starting point.

Even Skywalker(OG)Kush's point that Luke's self-exile is no different than Obi-wan and Yoda doing the same - oh great, something else Abrams just cut and pasted from the OT.

Force powers Rian Johnson introduced:

Turn off the Force.

Talk to someone far away until you?re dead.

 

[Khev]

So Yoda tells him that cutting himself off from the force and thereby removing himself from the equation wasn't a great idea. Yeah thanks for that Captain Hindsight. Maybe you should have popped in for a coffee with that piece of advice before 5 planets got obliterated.

I used to think that the ST was just a tweaked version of GL's treatment outlines. That Lucas' character "Kira" was just Rey and that she was going to do some Jedi artifact treasure hunting on her way to meeting Luke Skywalker and that those elements were somewhat utilized in what we saw on screen. I don't think that anymore.

I remember Michael Arndt (who I had taken to be working on scripting George's ST outline before being replaced by Abrams and Kasdan) said that he was constantly struggling with what to do with Luke since any time he considered bringing him into the story "suddenly it seemed like the entire focus should be on him." Duh, ya think?

But Iger just confessed that George was brought in to meet with Kennedy and Arndt and was *surprised and upset* that they weren't following his outline. Which makes sense since why would George leave it to some new writer to come up with a way to introduce his main freaking character into an trilogy that he'd fully outlined all three films for. So unless I hear that TROS was a 100% course correction *endorsed by George* I'm just going to enjoy the memories I had of watching these films with my kids and then wash them from my own personal canon.

It's not even like if someone wrote a sequel to LOTR that "tried to follow what Tolkien wanted." George is still alive and well. And he's *openly stated* that these films aren't what he wanted. So they don't count.

I'm sure he knew that Disney was planning on going off in their own directions and he was probably 100% on board with them doing stand alone flicks that tethered themselves to his existing narrative as well as exploring other eras. All he wanted was for them to just honor his wishes for Han, Luke, and Leia and for them to not even try is unforgivable. Unless, as I said, they pull off a miracle and make amends with TROS. But Luke is a ghost and Han is dead so....I guess we'll just have to see. Mark doesn't sound very enthusiastic now that his scenes are done so I'm not getting my hopes up.

And lol at Junkion.

 

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

Really every character in TLJ became annoying, Johnson even managed to make R2 annoying out of sheer irrelevance.

But no character will EVER be as annoying as Rose Tico.

After that Holdo and L3 take second and third.

 

[The Buffinator]

Unfortunately I have to go with Anakin.

Annoying side characters are more forgivable than annoying primary, linchpin-of-the-entire-saga characters.

I wholeheartedly agree, the Anakins (both incarnations) are BY FAR the most annoying. GL created the the baddest villain in film history, then completely neutered him by creating an origin arc that was undermined by piss-poor writing and unfathomable casting.....IMO. That said, I did believe Anakin could be related to Luke, as listening to either Jake Lloyd or Hayden Christensen DID remind me of him....when he whined to his Uncle Owen "But I was going Into Tosche Station to pick up some power converters". But unlike Luke, in their cases it grated EVERY time they opened their mouths.

 

[Jmek]

Rey, by a country mile.

 

[Prime Clone]

I did believe Anakin could be related to Luke, as listening to either Jake Lloyd or Hayden Christensen DID remind me of him....when he whined to his Uncle Owen "But I was going Into Tosche Station to pick up some power converters".

Exactly. I dunno why people were expecting/wanting an Anakin who was just Vader without the mask. Not only would that be less relatable, it would make his downfall less tragic.

 

[Sachiel]

So unless I hear that TROS was a 100% course correction *endorsed by George* I'm just going to enjoy the memories I had of watching these films with my kids and then wash them from my own personal canon.

TROS is the end of the trilogy, the last of the Skywalker saga. There is no course correction. They already hit the iceberg.

 

[a-dev]

I didn't feel any tragedy about his downfall as presented though. He was a creepy, unlikable brat. His relationship with Padme wasn't even close to believable, his friendship with Obi-wan was offscreen. They just 'told us' they were friends, or like brothers, or like father and son - George couldn't seem to make up his mind about that. All of this contributed to me just not caring that he was going down the dark path. If you don't care, how is there tragedy?

 

[The Buffinator]

I didn't feel any tragedy about his downfall as presented though. He was a creepy, unlikable brat. His relationship with Padme wasn't even close to believable, his friendship with Obi-wan was offscreen. They just 'told us' they were friends, or like brothers, or like father and son - George couldn't seem to make up his mind about that. All of this contributed to me just not caring that he was going down the dark path. If you don't care, how is there tragedy?

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner! A perfect summary.

 

[Prime Clone]

I concede it didn't work for everyone - maybe even most. Just sayin' I didn't have a problem with a younger, whinier Anakin. An older, grimmer Anakin would've been halfway to Vader already.

 

[JAWS]

As bad as TLJ is, you can't put all the blame on Rian. Kennedy is overseer and J.J. started this ****show of a trilogy. Then there's Iger...

It was her constant self righteousness, lack of logic, her look, the subplot that she was in, and that fact that she happened to be in the worst SW film.

What I mean by her look is that she looks more at home as someone who would attend a Star Wars convention rather then someone who would be in a Star Wars film. I know that's what RJ was going for but it was another bad decision to go along with all his other bad decisions

 

[Prime Clone]

I know that's what RJ was going for but it was another bad decision to go along with all his other bad decisions

Even his costume designers were like WTF. Barf chic!

 

[Wor-Gar]

 

[Johnny1378]

Was going to say Sleezebaggano, because his name is Sleezebaggano. But then somebody in this thread reminded me that Holdo existed. Now I have to change my answer.