Muhammad Ali vs Bruce Lee

[krewe555]

I actually studied Gracie Jiu-jitsu for a time (many years ago) and I can tell you that in a fight between a grappler vs. any other fighting style, the grappler wins 99% of the time. Whatever the technique, very few disiplines that I am aware of teach you what to do once your on the ground.

I studied for a few years, but never lasted more than 10 seconds in fight with my teacher, even then he was probably toying with me.

Lee was never shown to be a grappler though. Jeet Kune Do, which calls itself the style of no style, does seem to focus more on striking though.

Oh and btw I think Bas Rhutten mentioned this once. There has been many internet discussion between who would win if bruce lee came back to life and fought this guy or that guy. On his first day back from the dead, even in peak physical condition with all his former prowess, bruce lee would probably lose in any professional fight.

But we are talking about the guy who pioneered martial arts, pioneered fitness, and pioneered the art of no style. Which is why Dana white calls him the father of MMA. A guy like Bruce would just establish and new training program, and come back extremely dangerous in the ring, able to stand toe to toe with anyone.

From a practical and technical standpoint the gracies would probably be a greater influence in MMA b/c they introduced grappling to the sport.

 

[Invictus Sol]

Because pure boxers are winning every MMA belt in existence!
~sarcasm

Lol, yeah, I caught the sarcasm.

But we're not talking about some reasonably talented boxer. We're talking about Muhhamad doggone Ali! Maybe MMA is a good example in this regard (don't watch) but there must be plenty of match-ups where one particular style or skillset is favoured to win but ends up losing. My only point is out of say 10 fights between the two, it would be a blend and not a clean sweep for Lee. I don't care how good he was, his 135 - 145 pd frame or face gets clocked by a bare-knuckled Ali, he's done.

 

[Tornadoflame]

Lee was never shown to be a grappler though. Jeet Kune Do, which calls itself the style of no style, does seem to focus more on striking though.

Oh and btw I think Bas Rhutten mentioned this once. There has been many internet discussion between who would win if bruce lee came back to life and fought this guy or that guy. On his first day back from the dead, even in peak physical condition with all his former prowess, bruce lee would probably lose in any professional fight.

But we are talking about the guy who pioneered martial arts, pioneered fitness, and pioneered the art of no style. Which is why Dana white calls him the father of MMA. A guy like Bruce would just establish and new training program, and come back extremely dangerous in the ring, able to stand toe to toe with anyone.

From a practical and technical standpoint the gracies would probably be a greater influence in MMA b/c they introduced grappling to the sport.

Gracie jiujitsu loses to wrestling 9 out of 10 times. When it comes down to it, a fighter with a wrestling base and semi decent Muay Thai striking or even mma boxing will win.

 

[thenammagazine]

Lol, yeah, I caught the sarcasm.

But we're not talking about some reasonably talented boxer. We're talking about Muhhamad doggone Ali! Maybe MMA is a good example in this regard (don't watch) but there must be plenty of match-ups where one particular style or skillset is favoured to win but ends up losing. My only point is out of say 10 fights between the two, it would be a blend and not a clean sweep for Lee. I don't care how good he was, his 135 - 145 pd frame or face gets clocked by a bare-knuckled Ali, he's done.

MMA has proven that to be boxing. One only has to look at the history of the sport to see that. The only way Ali would win would be to trick Lee into fighting his own game. Given Lee knew Ali's game inside and out and was not only aware, but himself applied the psychological aspect to a fight, gives Lee the edge every time. He might not have had Ali's size, but something Martial Arts in general has proven over the course of thousands of years, is that size really doesn't mean all that much and, in fact, can work against the bigger person; especially if the Martial Artist is highly experienced.

 

[Tornadoflame]

MMA has proven that to be boxing. One only has to look at the history of the sport to see that. The only way Ali would win would be to trick Lee into fighting his own game. Given Lee knew Ali's game inside and out and was not only aware, but himself applied the psychological aspect to a fight, gives Lee the edge every time. He might not have had Ali's size, but something Martial Arts in general has proven over the course of thousands of years, is that size really doesn't mean all that much and, in fact, can work against the bigger person; especially if the Martial Artist is highly experienced.

Size definitely matters in MMA. Absolutely it does. The problem that Ali has or that we assume that he has is that he doesn't have a ground game at all. But yes, size matters. Only in movies, size doesn't matter.

 

[thenammagazine]

Size definitely matters in MMA. Absolutely it does. The problem that Ali has or that we assume that he has is that he doesn't have a ground game at all. But yes, size matters. Only in movies, size doesn't matter.

[ame]https://youtu.be/OWxlZ52O0rI[/ame]

[ame]https://youtu.be/LXoPkFhJgkI[/ame]

 

[Solidus]

https://youtu.be/OWxlZ52O0rI

"UFC vs. KFC"

 

[Dark Shadow]

Bruce Lee will win this fight without any doubt that's for sure.
And with the fastes KO ever.

 

[desisandy]

Just like that!!!! And u hear Ali scream. Ahhhhhhhhhh my nuts or my Eyes my eyes can't believe u finger jabbed my eyes . No hold Barr who knows , I think either would have some wins and losses. Maybe is Bruce screaming my eyes can't believe Ali finger jabbed my eyes lol. But I did read somewhere I can't be sure is a real Bruce Lee quote or fiction , but Bruce Lee said that in a fight against Ali he was very fascinated , but he mentioned he would not be the winner. Think is the pound for pound ratio would favour the bigger guy, bigger stranger guy not MR BLobbY .both skilled the advantage goes to the bigger opponent .

 

[Tornadoflame]

https://youtu.be/OWxlZ52O0rI

https://youtu.be/LXoPkFhJgkI

Hahaha. I will never be able to get that out of my head.

 

[Frank]

Size definitely matters in MMA. Absolutely it does. The problem that Ali has or that we assume that he has is that he doesn't have a ground game at all. But yes, size matters. Only in movies, size doesn't matter.

Except when your talking about mother****ing Bruce Lee!

"No matter the size", 3:00
[ame]https://youtu.be/n7Z-tTzYTG0[/ame]

Enough of this talk, I'm getting pissed off Bruce died so damn early. Just imagine what he could have contributed directly into MMA today.. He would have eaten it up with a spoon!

 

[Invictus Sol]

MMA has proven that to be boxing. One only has to look at the history of the sport to see that. The only way Ali would win would be to trick Lee into fighting his own game. Given Lee knew Ali's game inside and out and was not only aware, but himself applied the psychological aspect to a fight, gives Lee the edge every time. He might not have had Ali's size, but something Martial Arts in general has proven over the course of thousands of years, is that size really doesn't mean all that much and, in fact, can work against the bigger person; especially if the Martial Artist is highly experienced.

Yeah, some good points, there, Nam.

 

[Frank]

MMA has proven that to be boxing. One only has to look at the history of the sport to see that. The only way Ali would win would be to trick Lee into fighting his own game. Given Lee knew Ali's game inside and out and was not only aware, but himself applied the psychological aspect to a fight, gives Lee the edge every time. He might not have had Ali's size, but something Martial Arts in general has proven over the course of thousands of years, is that size really doesn't mean all that much and, in fact, can work against the bigger person; especially if the Martial Artist is highly experienced.

Damn good posting!

Also, anyone for some Bob Sapp?

[ame]https://youtu.be/H8sSK4k6WHw[/ame]

The ultimate waste of size and power!

 

[Tornadoflame]

Bob Sapp takes dives so he doesn't count. Japanese fights are extremely corrupted.

 

[Frank]

Bob Sapp takes dives so he doesn't count. Japanese fights are extremely corrupted.

How about the Russian fights?

[ame]https://youtu.be/JbLNGjKhrJM[/ame]

 

[mojo customz]

no ???? bruce lee.................

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKp0qHgnexA[/ame]

this is what he can do at 1"-----------his full fury of fist would kill any one................

 

[thenammagazine]

Bob Sapp takes dives so he doesn't count. Japanese fights are extremely corrupted.

Actually, might help to know a bit of history for that. Sapp talked so much **** going into that fight that a loss would make him look like a complete asshat. He looked like a complete asshat. Another perfect example is Randy Couture vs. James Toney. MMA fans know how that ended and boxing fans still ignore the match ever happened.

[ame]https://youtu.be/_nfQHaC3iWg[/ame]

 

[Anzik]

I would like to address a couple of points brought up: Bruce Lee had studied Wing Chun for about five years. Wing Chun has the POTENTIAL to be a devastating system but often we see Wing Chun fighters losing to MMA and Muay Thai on a regular basis, however, most of these fighters are not using WC correctly. Lee, created JKD because of the weaknesses he saw in Wing Chun, but it is likely he didn't learn the whole system. He was a kid in street gangs being taught by a former policeman. Did Ip Man teach him all of it or enough to get by. For that matter we don't know how good Ip Man truly was especially toward the end of his life and he did have an opium habit, reportedly.
Wing Chun is very good at redirecting and I have used it quite effectively against boxers. The reason most fights end up on the ground is because most people don't know how to stop them from ending up on the ground. Also Bruce Lee trained for a year privately with Gene LeBell who says he got quite proficient at them. The real issue comes down to street fight or a fight with rules. Ali was a big man and would have been able to absorb a lot of punishment. Ali was very powerful and very fast if he connected once or twice Lee would not have been able to tolerate the impact just due to size constraints. If you have ever been hit by a middle weight and a heavy weight you would understand there isn't a real comparison.

 

[Invictus Sol]

Good post, Anzik. That's partly my point, too, in that Lee's frame is not built to absorb heavy weight punches, especially bare knuckle. Ali and Frazier managed to inflict internal organ damage on one another being in the same weight class and wearing gloves. No telling what a few direct hits to Lee's midsection would do, let alone an uppercut to the jaw or headshot. If Lee got staggered for a half second, Ali would roll it up.

Although I agree with what Nam's saying in that size isn't everything, it's also the case that Lee wouldn't be going up against a slow, lumbering guy like say Andre the Giant. Ali was big, fast and a saavy fighter. A lot of the 'Lee wins' argument seems to be predicated on him never taking a hit and being able to deflect and dodge everything Ali would throw at him.

 

[Anzik]

Yeah a lot of people look at Bruce Lee and see what they want to. If you look at him in an historical context you really see his greatest contributions. The father of MMA more accurately belongs to LeBell. Lee was like the Beatles, exciting the world into martial arts interest. Great practitioner, great physical specimen and very adept at the philosophy the martial arts are based on but many of the systems that were developed to embody those philosophies were still very guarded during Lee's time. In the book Martial arts, history, philosophy and people (1987) there were around 150 karate schools in the USA in 74, one year after Enter The Dragon there were over 1.5 million traced directly back to the excitement caused by Bruce Lee. Because of this opportunity many lesser known systems and many obscure masters were able to come out of the shadows. You simply cannot judge Bruce Lee by todays standards comparing him with modern fighters. He was 32 when he died and that is well past the prime of most MMA fighters. Also MMA is a bad choice for street fighting. You will seldom be facing a strictly one on one challenge, you don't know what is on the ground, rocks, glass used needles, etc, and striking causing bleeding with opponents who may have HIV, hepatitis C or other blood borne diseases isn't a good idea.