Nature of market for 1:6 scale figures

[Stanlore]

The reasons for the immediate price hike is because many people noticed that they can make quick money by reselling popular characters because of demands and people coming in to the hobby late. You can see most of the time the hiked up price don't really sell.
A lot of people see the 1:6 figures are good investments. I doubt this can be true now. The figures are produced in larger numbers these days then limited to 3000 back in the day.

As for reissues. I think the toy companies usually signed off a 1 time deal meaning they can make the certain numbers that they contracted for and that's it. The can't go back to production unless they pay the licensing companies addition fee. This helps with keeping collectibles collectibles. That's how these toys hold their value. But this Hot Toys came up with the idea of "improving" their previous releases and make version 2 or DX versions of the same character.

Bikes... sad to say... newbs like you ARE one of the reasons why the old figures cost so much. Are you looking at your incomplete Avengers collection... and does it haunt you everytime you walk by that it dosent have Hawkeye and Fury? Well.. .there you go..~ Being Human does include irrational impulses.

The other reasons being (what others have mentioned) licensing problems, factory capacity, limited quantities, and greedy scalpers. However, a bit of advice.. depending on what characters you are going after... especially if Marvel, there are figures that they will eventually re-issue.

For example.. Nick Fury.. you missed out on Avengers. Why not wait? Captain America: Winter Soldier and Avengers 2 is coming out. Is Avengers Fury the last we'll see of him? I don't think so..~

Also, to touch up on another reason they don't go back. HT have had quite a few stellar releases. If time never shifted gears, they would be stuck in a loop of producing loop after sold out loop of the same **** over and over. To add to that, LESS people would pre-order and assume to get it on a 2nd re-release, 3rd re-release. If that happened, i think we would still be seeing HT Iron Man 1 figures till 2020, before IM2 figures could even start. oh... IMHO...~

 

[potato]

You can see it as something like Real Estate, price will keep going up due to demand and one day pop when nobody can afford it.

I'll tell you this, some of the recent figures are getting close to the threshold where I will just refuse to buy any new figures. I imagine there are a good few like me who will just not be able to afford it any more, no matter how good the figures will be.

There is no way I'll ever spend over £200.00 on a figure. I remember a couple of years ago now, I was after one of the Ignite Hospitaller figures, and they were like hens teeth, none to be found - eventually I spend £70.00 on one and I spent about a week trying to justify it to myself. Now things have just exploded and the truth is that HT figures are just too damn expensive for me to even consider picking up.

Right now I'm just spending my money with ACI and KP, who produce good quality with prices I can afford.

 

[Mr Walker]

Buy 10 of everything. I bought 10 Odins, and 30 Supermans. Gonna be a billionaire one day....

 

[potato]

If you plan on selling each for like $500 like RE4 Leon, chances are you'll be able to sell one once every 6 months where someone could wait no longer.

The result will be people get turned off because all the stocks has been scalped and they no longer able to buy it via official sources and give up on the hobby.

It's like a Bubble.

Buy 10 of everything. I bought 10 Odins, and 30 Supermans. Gonna be a billionaire one day....

 

[potato]

Don't forget 3rd party "Customs" are getting better and better, and they are just you can say Bootlegs of the actual, at a fraction of the price, yet quality is like 80% close to the originals.

 

[Darkmatter]

I'm a bit new into collecting 1:6 figures so please bare with me

Anyway, noticed that most of the 1:6 figures (ESPECIALLY Marvel and DC related) made by makers such as Hot Toys and Enterbay get a huge spike increase in its market value upon arrival / distribution of the actual figures. For example, the HT DX11 Joker 2.0 was around the area of USD 230-240 when it was up for pre-order but now has a market price of around USD 300 onwards. HT Iron Man Mark VII was pretty much the same, except that selling price is even a bit higher. Apart from some figures such as Red Skull and Goblin, it's safe to say that majority of them see their prices skyrocket upon the figure's actual arrival.

Can anyone explain to me the driving force behind this? Also wondering if companies such as HT and Enterbay just mass produce these figures and completely stop doing so after just 1 initial run? I mean, for example, do they just set an allocation for a certain figure (hypothetically 10,000) and once they have distributed it, stop producing another batch even if the sales are very strong?

Am very interested in getting your insights on this guys, thanks

the driving force is supply and demand. for those who failed to pre-order, they are now scrambling to purchase for fear of a price hike. the more people want it, the higher the price goes.

 

[Darkmatter]

Buy 10 of everything. I bought 10 Odins, and 30 Supermans. Gonna be a billionaire one day....

not by the two you picked. now if you said mark IV, mark VI, mark VII, whiplash or any of the several others that have skyrocketed in price, you may look to make $100-$400 per figure.

 

[potato]

Usually, even if you didn't preorder, chances are local stores will still have them. It's those that took 3 months to decide that can no longer find them in stores and had to resort to ebay, or those wanting to get them earlier.

But i think current situation, the supply is still up to mark to the demand, just scalpers are scalping all the supplies making the supply look much less than actual.

I would say for a 100% release, 45% goes to preorders, another 35% goes to or types of stores, and another 20% goes to scalpers/people who buy it for the sake of profiting.

For exclusives like exhibition releases i would say it's a 50/50 between collectors & scalpers.

the driving force is supply and demand. for those who failed to pre-order, they are now scrambling to purchase for fear of a price hike. the more people want it, the higher the price goes.

 

[bikes]

The reasons for the immediate price hike is because many people noticed that they can make quick money by reselling popular characters because of demands and people coming in to the hobby late. You can see most of the time the hiked up price don't really sell.
A lot of people see the 1:6 figures are good investments. I doubt this can be true now. The figures are produced in larger numbers these days then limited to 3000 back in the day.

As for reissues. I think the toy companies usually signed off a 1 time deal meaning they can make the certain numbers that they contracted for and that's it. The can't go back to production unless they pay the licensing companies addition fee. This helps with keeping collectibles collectibles. That's how these toys hold their value. But this Hot Toys came up with the idea of "improving" their previous releases and make version 2 or DX versions of the same character.

Can anyone actually verify this? IF (and that's a big IF) this is true and this is how Hot Toys handles its business, then perhaps this greatly contributes as to why prices immediately skyrocket once the figures arrive. However, I still find it hard to believe that deals would be structured like that. I mean, a license is a license. Sure, HT probably paid different fees for EACH character in Avengers, but I doubt Marvel or DC gives a crap about how many pieces HT will do for a particular figure - as long as the licensing fee they requested for this or that character is met. Feel free to correct me with facts though Am very intrigued in this.

I'd also like to note though that even if this is the case, one can't help wonder why they don't just pay for the "extra licensing fees" (again, assuming this exists in the 1st place) to produce a 2nd batch. I mean, another example would be the Iron Man Mark VI. We all know how much this figure is sought after by everyone. When this 1st came out in 2010, it was barely around USD200. Today, you can sell this figure for USD 300 easily. That's a hundred dollar difference right there. Not saying that HT should sell it at USD 300, but retailing it at around probably USD 220 - I'm sure people would still jump at it. Heck, make another round of pre-orders at USD 200 (just like the 1st time) - I'm 100% sure that it would sell out and cover whatever "extra licensing fees" they have to pay (again, if this exists to begin with).

 

[bikes]

I think you are really overstating the effect "pop culture enthusiasts" have on the high end collectible toy market. Sure, there are plenty of people who you would label 'bandwagoners' to properties such as the Avengers, because they weren't into the comics or characters much before the movie, but I don't know too many circles OTHER THAN those already in the high end collector realm that are even all that aware of Hot Toys, let alone find them trendy and cool.

This is still a very niche market. If it weren't, every comic shop would be ordering all the hot toy avengers in high numbers just to keep in the shelves, instead most only order for their customers through specific preorders, if even that.

Toy collecting hasn't really been trendy since the mid-90s in my opinion.

Great post. I actually agree with you here. This is still a very niche market, as I don't know any casual fans who would willingly spend USD 200-400 per figure just because they saw it in a movie or comic book.

If anyone has inside information on how Hot Toys or Enterbay manufacture these figures, I believe that will greatly contribute to the topic on hand.

 

[potato]

Usually they pay a minimum fee of licensing, then they pay for each unit sold a % of the profit in terms of loyalties, so i'm guessing any extra figs sold would profit both HT & the licensor. To the licensor the licensing fee is the main profit for them and loyalties are like extra, they earn more when they sell more without the risk of item not selling well.

I doubt Marvel or such actually care about their product being "limited" to maintain the premium & demand for it, just look at how Hasbro is mass producing their figures. The profit for each figure sold is much smaller than HT 1/6, so why wouldn't Marvel welcome bigger sales on the more profitable HT figs by setting a limit on them?

Main reason is HT want to maintain the demands for their figures & give a highly sought after impression.

When you produce 3000 figs, you get like 1500 preorders and another 1500 by stores, the sales pretty much guranteed, when you produce 10000 of them, chances are you will have 500 preorders & the rest goes on to the shelves waiting to be purchased. Demand will drop, value will drop, and when the products end up in the bargain bin, you can foresee HT going down with them.

HT, EB, Medicom are like Ferrari, Lamboghini & Rolex, while Takara, Hasbro & Mattel are like Ford, Honda & Casio.

 

[The Chev]

Usually, even if you didn't preorder, chances are local stores will still have them. It's those that took 3 months to decide that can no longer find them in stores and had to resort to ebay, or those wanting to get them earlier.

.

This is true. At my local comic shop they still have Nick Fury, Loki, Avengers Captain America, and I think it was black widow. Now they were all marked up for profit, but not anywhere near as bad as Ebay. They also had a few older figures like the first Barney Ross, Sgt. Barnes, and Aldo Raine. The Aldo Raine hadn't been moved in three years. The price tag still had the year 2010 on it. I do know the guy does sell stuff on ebay, so I'm wondering how he does his pricing since I got Sgt. Barnes and Aldo a lot cheaper than I would have if I went on ebay. I do know he was direct from SS. He did mention that his deal with them lets him make a profit.

So to anyone looking for figures, try local comic shops. Sideshow's Retailer network does work. It sent me to the store I go to.

 

[potato]

Because being local they know at what price people will & will not buy them.

Ebay sellers mostly from Asia countries where they believe people in the West have lots of money and that they won't be able to get it outside ebay.

Since you cannot check sold items we have no idea whether those highly priced items were sold or not. All we see is the same item with the same price, it could be a 2nd or 3rd unit they are selling.

Mind you ebay fees are not cheap when you relist an item over and over again over 1-2 years.

This is true. At my local comic shop they still have Nick Fury, Loki, Avengers Captain America, and I think it was black widow. Now they were all marked up for profit, but not anywhere near as bad as Ebay. They also had a few older figures like the first Barney Ross, Sgt. Barnes, and Aldo Raine. The Aldo Raine hadn't been moved in three years. The price tag still had the year 2010 on it. I do know the guy does sell stuff on ebay, so I'm wondering how he does his pricing since I got Sgt. Barnes and Aldo a lot cheaper than I would have if I went on ebay. I do know he was direct from SS. He did mention that his deal with them lets him make a profit.

 

[The Chev]

Because being local they know at what price people will & will not buy them.

Ebay sellers mostly from Asia countries where they believe people in the West have lots of money and that they won't be able to get it outside ebay.

Since you cannot check sold items we have no idea whether those highly priced items were sold or not. All we see is the same item with the same price, it could be a 2nd or 3rd unit they are selling.

Mind you ebay fees are not cheap when you relist an item over and over again over 1-2 years.

Yes, I always forget about the fees on ebay. It's the main reason why I don't want to sell anything on there.

 

[bikes]

Usually they pay a minimum fee of licensing, then they pay for each unit sold a % of the profit in terms of loyalties, so i'm guessing any extra figs sold would profit both HT & the licensor. To the licensor the licensing fee is the main profit for them and loyalties are like extra, they earn more when they sell more without the risk of item not selling well.

I doubt Marvel or such actually care about their product being "limited" to maintain the premium & demand for it, just look at how Hasbro is mass producing their figures. The profit for each figure sold is much smaller than HT 1/6, so why wouldn't Marvel welcome bigger sales on the more profitable HT figs by setting a limit on them?

Main reason is HT want to maintain the demands for their figures & give a highly sought after impression.

When you produce 3000 figs, you get like 1500 preorders and another 1500 by stores, the sales pretty much guranteed, when you produce 10000 of them, chances are you will have 500 preorders & the rest goes on to the shelves waiting to be purchased. Demand will drop, value will drop, and when the products end up in the bargain bin, you can foresee HT going down with them.

HT, EB, Medicom are like Ferrari, Lamboghini & Rolex, while Takara, Hasbro & Mattel are like Ford, Honda & Casio.

I see where you're coming from. However, I think the better comparison with HT figures would be Air Jordan shoes (Nike) rather than Ferrari's and Lamborghini's. They're very similar in a lot of ways, especially when it comes down to the prices.

Basically, Nike's profit and revenue skyrocketed when they decided to re-release the "sought-after Jordan shoes" in the market. I remember that at first, they were hesitant on doing this so they can keep the frenzy and hype that these shoes carry. Mind you, they didn't overdo it which is why the AJ shoes still carry a good amount of hype with them. I agree with your example by the way. If HT initially produced 3,000 Iron Man Mark VI (hypothetically), re-releasing a 2nd batch that includes 10,000-15,000 more pcs would easily kill off the hype. Like what you said, there's a good chance that a huge chunk of them would end up sitting on the shelves. However, why not just follow Nike's formula? Don't triple or quadruple the next batch - just make enough to earn a good profit while still keeping the hype. Why not just produce another safe 3,000 (like the initial run) Mark VIs and get a good profit? I'm sure with the demand of Mark VI, 3,000 would barely break the hype.

 

[brebro]

You can see it as something like Real Estate, price will keep going up due to demand and one day pop when nobody can afford it.

...or maybe Beanie Babies.

 

[potato]

Well HT don't do reissues like Nike does to AJ's, by the time Nike reissue AJ XV HT would have went from mk-I to mk-45.

The market for AJ is much bigger than HT 1/6, the fact that Nike reissued AJs means that Nike didn't really produce enough supplies in the 1st place, also you can't really preorder AJ's and the only way is buy it when it's out, whether by queuing up or what. The reason i can think of why AJ release are limited, is because of the material used, it might be common & cheap back when AJ1 was released, but it's probably cost Nike more today to make the same shoe (90% identical). And Nike's only selling them around the same or slightly more expensive than their modern shoes.

Also don't forget AJ is not the only product Nike is making, so i believe if there's a market for 100k AJ I Nike will keep reissuing them until the market is saturated, because Nike would want to profit every single cent from AJ as possible. While HT only has 1/6 as their main product, they can't afford to lose the hype.

I would say Nike is more like Bandai where they have both mid & high end products of wide ranges, and both ultra limited & over supplied products and covers worldwide market and also some exclusives for local/specific regions.

Even though HT seems one of the biggest company in 1/6 line, they are still a relatively small company with limited resources. All they can do is keep the hype up while making as many products as they can. Maybe by the time they become something like Medicom/Bandai they will consider reissuing older products, or v2.0, 3.0, 4.0.

So far even bigger companies like Sideshow don't do reissues because they need to keep the Star Wars hype up in order to churn out every possible characters.

 

[jphoenix]

This thread makes me think about HT Selina Kyle, it's really a very basic figure and collectors might have just passed on her. But look at the reviews and Showcases on YT, she is basic but sexy and looks great next to DX12 Batman! So figure is going to spike, curious to see how high she will go. Deff not a Hawkeye but the OCD collector that has a lonely Batman so sad so get him a companion before prices keep surging.

 

[lerath666]

You can see it as something like Real Estate, price will keep going up due to demand and one day pop when nobody can afford it.

If you plan on selling each for like $500 like RE4 Leon, chances are you'll be able to sell one once every 6 months where someone could wait no longer.

The result will be people get turned off because all the stocks has been scalped and they no longer able to buy it via official sources and give up on the hobby.

It's like a Bubble.

...or maybe Beanie Babies.

Or the 90's comic scene.

It'll happen eventualy. I'm waiting on it to see who survives, and who dies. It's GOING to happen unless they ( hot toys, sideshow, etc) slow down their own price hikes.

 

[potato]

A closer look would be McFarlanes series, especially Spawn series. Even for a much cheaper line it got real cold due to over-release and people got bored.

Or Medicom Kubrick scene, the Be@rbrick seems to be riding on pop culture if not it'd be stone cold by now.

Somehow Rah still manage to stay hot because they release figures from different genre and not having a tight schedule.

However you look at Sideshow Premium Format, the number of Statues they came out is pretty crazy yet people still buying them.

Also Hasbro Star War 3.75" line never gets cold even though they've been releasing like 10 versions of each characters and releasing any characters they can find. So maybe Sideshow 12" lines can maintain the same heat.

Barbie dolls still have quite some followers even though it's been like what 60 years?

Or the 90's comic scene.

It'll happen eventualy. I'm waiting on it to see who survives, and who dies. It's GOING to happen unless they ( hot toys, sideshow, etc) slow down their own price hikes.