New Sideshow Policy - non-refundable deposit figures over $224

[Pixelpiper]

Technically yes, it's news. It's just not what I consider news-worthy. Prices go up. There's nothing to say that all SSC figures will start at over $225 though. Some will of course, and others likely won't. My attention in 1/6 is mostly on other vendors at the moment, and while their prices are lower than HT/SSC, the whole industry is working on fat margins AFAIC.

 

[TaliBane]

Technically yes, it's news. It's just not what I consider news-worthy. Prices go up. There's nothing to say that all SSC figures will start at over $225 though. Some will of course, and others likely won't. My attention in 1/6 is mostly on other vendors at the moment, and while their prices are lower than HT/SSC, the whole industry is working on fat margins AFAIC.

My attention in 1/6 is mostly on Sideshow at the moment, so I guess this is headlines to me, classifieds to you.

Prices go up.

Basic 1/6 SSC Luke figure goes from $50 to nearly $250 in nine years. Other than headsculpt (which some would debate,) not much noticeable bump in quality in outfits, weapons, body or accessories, or volume of "what's in the box."

Yup, I guess that qualifies as "up." Oh, and now it has an NRD like only PF, busts, statues and big money items used to.

 

[Pixelpiper]

Basic 1/6 SSC Luke figure goes from $50 to nearly $250 in nine years.

Check the price of gas, of a burger (even a bad one), etc. I'm not going to justify the prices they're asking except to say that we're dealing with collectibles and dealers will sell for what customers will pay. Yeah, I'd love prices to be under $100 too.

 

[NASEDO]

I don't have a problem with deposits, just hate putting down a NRD for an item a year away or more.

And I don't think this is due to "Flippers", SS has always sold-out their stuff before NRD.

Does SS give these NRD to the factory's making the items or do the use it as an investment????

 

[VASith]

The amount of posts in here that show a lack of common business sense is beyond frightening. It also explains a lot about this current generation and their financial situation and responsibilities.

 

[TaliBane]

Check the price of gas, of a burger (even a bad one), etc. I'm not going to justify the prices they're asking except to say that we're dealing with collectibles and dealers will sell for what customers will pay. Yeah, I'd love prices to be under $100 too.

Okay. I checked the price of gas, and of a burger (a bad one.)

Big Mac, yearly price:

2005 - $3.06
2012 - $4.45

45% increase

Average Retail Gas (after extremes both as high as around $4 and low as $1.59 in this period):

2005 - $2.09
2015 - $2.34 (after four years of $3.35-$3.80)

81% increase to MAXIMUM price,
12% increase to CURRENT price

Sideshow 1/6 human figure:

2005/06 - $40-50
2015 - $230-240

400% increase


It's likely that pretty much EVERYTHING will only sell for what customers will pay.

 

[marker2037]

Great discussion, but I haven't seen anyone mention the most basic bit of info, or question it. How is this a new policy? Sideshow seems to have always had NRD on items over a specific dollar amount - I believe that was $250. If it's now $224, all they've done is lowered it a little bit. One's opinion of the NRD shouldn't necessarily change because of that $25 margin.

Regardless of the dollar amount, I don't see NRD as a punitive measure. It's a security measure for SSC to discourage wild speculation by scalpers and wishy-washy customers. If you have a legitimate reason to cancel at some point in the future, I'm sure SSC will be willing to work it out with you like they have so may times in the past.

Lastly, with regards to items that end up materially/tangibly different than presented at the time of sale, both Credit Card issuers and PayPal have policies to deal with that - and Sideshow has to play according to their rules. Consult your payment issuer/processor's fine print for the full scoop.

I mentioned it earlier but no one seemed to take notice

Basic 1/6 SSC Luke figure goes from $50 to nearly $250 in nine years. Other than headsculpt (which some would debate,) not much noticeable bump in quality in outfits, weapons, body or accessories, or volume of "what's in the box."

Yup, I guess that qualifies as "up." Oh, and now it has an NRD like only PF, busts, statues and big money items used to.

I would completely disagree with that. I'm not sure if you were around in 2006-9, but the bodies, paint, and overall execution of the pieces were crap. They were more dolls than collectible figures. Some came out ok, but most needed a ton of work.

The amount of posts in here that show a lack of common business sense is beyond frightening. It also explains a lot about this current generation and their financial situation and responsibilities.

Okay. I checked the price of gas, and of a burger (a bad one.)

Big Mac, yearly price:

2005 - $3.06
2012 - $4.45

45% increase

Average Retail Gas (after extremes both as high as around $4 and low as $1.59 in this period):

2005 - $2.09
2015 - $2.34 (after four years of $3.35-$3.80)

81% increase to MAXIMUM price,
12% increase to CURRENT price

Sideshow 1/6 human figure:

2005/06 - $40-50
2015 - $230-240

400% increase


It's likely that pretty much EVERYTHING will only sell for what customers will pay.

Poor comparisons. Has the quality of a Big Mac or the quality of the gas improved along with the prices? Nope, they are exactly the same. There is no improvements in the product. They are the same then as they are now.

 

[Invictus Sol]

Basic 1/6 SSC Luke figure goes from $50 to nearly $250 in nine years. Other than headsculpt (which some would debate,) not much noticeable bump in quality in outfits, weapons, body or accessories, or volume of "what's in the box."

I would completely disagree with that. I'm not sure if you were around in 2006-9, but the bodies, paint, and overall execution of the pieces were crap. They were more dolls than collectible figures. Some came out ok, but most needed a ton of work.

Yep, have to all say I couldn't disagree more, TaliBane. I've only been active in the hobby for 3 years but I checked stuff out now and again before that and I'd say pretty much everything more than four or so years old looked like crap. Really I think it's a don't like/don't buy situation. If you're not happy with the NRD/product, just pass on it, like the rest of us are doing when it comes to SSC's human likenesses.

 

[Mad Old Lu]

Poor comparisons. Has the quality of a Big Mac or the quality of the gas improved along with the prices? Nope, they are exactly the same. There is no improvements in the product. They are the same then as they are now.

How about computers? A top of the line iMac in 2005 was $1700. A top of line iMac is currently $2500. That's a 47% increase.

 

[TaliBane]

I mentioned it earlier but no one seemed to take notice

I would completely disagree with that. I'm not sure if you were around in 2006-9, but the bodies, paint, and overall execution of the pieces were crap. They were more dolls than collectible figures. Some came out ok, but most needed a ton of work.

Poor comparisons. Has the quality of a Big Mac or the quality of the gas improved along with the prices? Nope, they are exactly the same. There is no improvements in the product. They are the same then as they are now.

I wasn't around then, but I have bought a ton of older SSC figs and loose pieces cheap after-market.

Bodies: Some would argue the newest SSC bodies have huge issues (the first order of the day with most "improvements" on current SSC figs is to do a body swap, right?) The body which was the worst I have ever had in 1/6 was the SSC Tusken from only two years ago - truly awful; stubby arms, rubbery ratchet knees, loose ankles, etc. However, I have gotten quite a few SSC bodies from the the 2006 era and yeah, not great at all - but not terrible either compared to current SSC bodies (hey, maybe I was lucky with the old ones I got.) I'm a customizer - I have used just about every body from 15 year old Hasbro bodies to 10 year BBI or Dragon bodies to up-to-the-moment HT Truetypes. The idea that the new SSC bodies are a universe better than a 2009 SSC body is - from my experience - not true in many cases.

Weapons/accessories/outfits: I have the SSC Luke Jedi outfit from 2005/06 and it is about 80-90% of what HT would do today. Compare the newest Luke Jedi saber that came with R2 with the one made in 2005/06 - I challenge you to spot the better one. Leia Boussh's outfit from 2007 is incredibly well done (except the pants and to some degree the boots.) The Rebel commando - with the head swapped out for a new DID head and on a new body - comes very close to holding to today's 1/6 standard. I would argue SSC's old gloved hands are better than the current (always oversized) gloved hands. I have a ton of older SSC gear and quite a bit of it (no, definitely not all) is pretty much on-par with today's 1/6 standards - especially weapons and accessories, less so outfits, but not always. People judge those older figs by the head alone and it's just crazy.

Heads: the one area where SSC has improved a lot in the past ten years. But are they on-par with the state of the art 1/6 today? You know the answer to that - you've been following the Luke and Han Hoth threads. NO.

If you think 2006-09 SSC figures are "crap" compared to the current SSC figures, you are not looking close enough. And if you are honestly trying to suggest that the jump in SSC's quality justifies the price going up by a FACTOR OF FIVE then you are crazy. That's not even close to being true.

 

[TaliBane]

Yep, have to all say I couldn't disagree more, TaliBane. I've only been active in the hobby for 3 years but I checked stuff out now and again before that and I'd say pretty much everything more than four or so years old looked like crap. Really I think it's a don't like/don't buy situation. If you're not happy with the NRD/product, just pass on it, like the rest of us are doing when it comes to SSC's human likenesses.

See, most look at the god-awful SSC Han Bespin and go "ewww! crap!" - I get it for next to nothing and get an amazing Han belt and pistol, boots, pants and breather mask. Stuff that's pretty close to HT. But no one notices because it's packaged with an Alec Baldwin head wearing a Bolero coat.

Maybe you really have to be a customizer to appreciate how great some parts/outfits of those old SSC figures are. I had a Luke farmboy saber on my HT Luke Bespin for a while, and while the HT is noticeably better under a macro pic, on display it looked just as good.

How about computers? A top of the line iMac in 2005 was $1700. A top of line iMac is currently $2500. That's a 47% increase.

Of course, and you are referencing a breakthrough product - the Retina display iMac; which renders pixels pretty much invisible - no offence, Pixelpiper.


Other than speculative bubbles, nothing goes up 400% in less than ten years - and those end with corrections. You would really struggle to find any consumer product that has gone up that much over that amount of time, and some are - adjusted - actually cheaper. Maybe we'll class this like a luxury item - which ebbs and flows in price depending on how the economy is going, but even that corrects.

 

[Sidewinder]

How come the Hot Toys Starlord doesn't have a NRD listed?
It's over $224
Or is it just newer figures?

StarLord is now in stock, they don't put an NRD on a buy now product. Last I checked there were still many HT figures without the NRD listed. So I'm not sure what the new policy is.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[marker2037]

I wasn't around then, but I have bought a ton of older SSC figs and loose pieces cheap after-market.

Bodies: Some would argue the newest SSC bodies have huge issues (the first order of the day with most "improvements" on current SSC figs is to do a body swap, right?) The body which was the worst I have ever had in 1/6 was the SSC Tusken from only two years ago - truly awful; stubby arms, rubbery ratchet knees, loose ankles, etc. However, I have gotten quite a few SSC bodies from the the 2006 era and yeah, not great at all - but not terrible either compared to current SSC bodies (hey, maybe I was lucky with the old ones I got.) I'm a customizer - I have used just about every body from 15 year old Hasbro bodies to 10 year BBI or Dragon bodies to up-to-the-moment HT Truetypes. The idea that the new SSC bodies are a universe better than a 2009 SSC body is - from my experience - not true in many cases.

Weapons/accessories/outfits: I have the SSC Luke Jedi outfit from 2005/06 and it is about 80-90% of what HT would do today. Compare the newest Luke Jedi saber that came with R2 with the one made in 2005/06 - I challenge you to spot the better one. Leia Boussh's outfit from 2007 is incredibly well done (except the pants and to some degree the boots.) The Rebel commando - with the head swapped out for a new DID head and on a new body - comes very close to holding to today's 1/6 standard. I would argue SSC's old gloved hands are better than the current (always oversized) gloved hands. I have a ton of older SSC gear and quite a bit of it (no, definitely not all) is pretty much on-par with today's 1/6 standards - especially weapons and accessories, less so outfits, but not always. People judge those older figs by the head alone and it's just crazy.

Heads: the one area where SSC has improved a lot in the past ten years. But are they on-par with the state of the art 1/6 today? You know the answer to that - you've been following the Luke and Han Hoth threads. NO.

If you think 2006-09 SSC figures are "crap" compared to the current SSC figures, you are not looking close enough. And if you are honestly trying to suggest that the jump in SSC's quality justifies the price going up by a FACTOR OF FIVE then you are crazy. That's not even close to being true.

A) You lost me when you said the bodies are comparable. The Buck body is literally one of the worst bodies ever made. I dare you to pick up an old, stock Maul figure and see how awesome that poses or looks. They are floppy messes with horrible proportions. You also mention how you're a customizer so I assume you're saying that I'm not. Please visit the R2 thread to see what I can do with customizing.



B) Noticed I never mentioned accessories or even the outfits. They've still improved, but they were still pretty decent back then which is why I didn't mention them. Regardless, I don't think you can argue the newest figures don't have better tailoring, because they do.


C) State of the art? No, not really, but still pretty damn good and those sculpts you mentioned are the best interpretations of the characters yet IMO. I dare you to find a nicer production Ford head that actually looks like Ford. You won't. And while the Hot Toys Bespin Luke has better details and better paint (from the limited pics I've seen so far), the likeness on Sideshow's is better.

I owned and still own a lot of those older figs and while some are ok stock, a lot of them were crap and needed a lot of love and an immediate body swap and paint job to start to look decent. To most people, that's the majority of the figure. That's why most of these older figs you see are kitbashes.

But you still compared these products to products that don't change so I still throw out those comparisons.

 

[TaliBane]

A) You lost me when you said the bodies are comparable. The Buck body is literally one of the worst bodies ever made. I dare you to pick up an old, stock Maul figure and see how awesome that poses or looks. They are floppy messes with horrible proportions. You also mention how you're a customizer so I assume you're saying that I'm not. Please visit the R2 thread to see what I can do with customizing.



B) Noticed I never mentioned accessories or even the outfits. They've still improved, but they were still pretty decent back then which is why I didn't mention them. Regardless, I don't think you can argue the newest figures don't have better tailoring, because they do.


C) State of the art? No, not really, but still pretty damn good and those sculpts you mentioned are the best interpretations of the characters yet IMO. I dare you to find a nicer production Ford head that actually looks like Ford. You won't. And while the Hot Toys Bespin Luke has better details and better paint (from the limited pics I've seen so far), the likeness on Sideshow's is better.

I owned and still own a lot of those older figs and while some are ok stock, a lot of them were crap and needed a lot of love and an immediate body swap and paint job to start to look decent. To most people, that's the majority of the figure. That's why most of these older figs you see are kitbashes.

But you still compared these products to products that don't change so I still throw out those comparisons.

The point is, the newest - very newest - SSC bodies people seem to have the need to swap out. You see it in thread after thread, right? Most recent example, take a look at the Snowtrooper thread in the past few days - it's a terrible body. These are very recent SSC bodies. Point is... if they're wonky and people repeatedly have the need to swap them, they aren't a huge step up over the older bodies.

So... not much improvement, so no justification for a FIVEFOLD increase in SSC's prices.

And SSC's accessories, weapons and outfits were "pretty decent back then" (I would say very decent... as I mentioned, pull out the recent R2 Luke Saber and compare it to the 2006 Luke Jedi saber if you want proof that they were more than "pretty decent") ...

So... not much improvement, so no justification for a FIVEFOLD increase in SSC's prices.

And... SSC gets a "no, not really" on the state of the art headsculpt question? Based on pics (yes, neither you nor I have the figure) Han Hoth is all over the place - some pics look great - as I have said over and over in that thread - but in some it looks like a generic eskimo with very little HF resemblance. And Luke Hoth... that is a trickier one... I like it, but.... you know what I mean.

So... not much improvement, so no justification for a FIVEFOLD increase in SSC's prices.


This is what we're talking about, isn't it? Whether the SSC Luke product from 2006 is worth FIVE TIMES AS MUCH as the SSC Luke product from 2015. That the body, the outfit, weapons and accessories and headsculpt is worth five times more based on "improvements." And you're saying it is? I still say it isn't.

But you still compared these products to products that don't change so I still throw out those comparisons.

Um... compare an iMac from 2005 and the 2015 iMac Retina...

 

[marker2037]

Where did I say I "justified five times the price"? Those are your words. I never mentioned anything regarding that. But I will say that I think the $50-90 I paid back then compared to the $160-200 now (I'm excluding X-Wing Luke as you can check that thread and see how negatively vocal I was about that when all the details were announced) is justified in my eyes with many of the improvements that I see. Especially since it would cost at least another $75-150 in customizing to get those figures to where it was needed to be acceptable on a high end shelf.

 

[Rambler]

After reading thru this thread, I guess I've come to the conclusion that I don't really mind the NRD now. It will make me think before ordering something I am on the fence with. I agree with some though that I'm not a fan of putting money down on a figure that is not coming out for a year. In that case, I will just wait until in hand photos are released before ordering.

Not a big deal in the grand scheme of things I guess.

 

[Wor-Gar]

NRDs are pure...

 

[Pixelpiper]

Ordering something without paying anything for it is a little foreign in most circles anyway.

 

[TaliBane]

Where did I say I "justified five times the price"? Those are your words. I never mentioned anything regarding that. But I will say that I think the $50-90 I paid back then compared to the $160-200 now (I'm excluding X-Wing Luke as you can check that thread and see how negatively vocal I was about that when all the details were announced) is justified in my eyes with many of the improvements that I see. Especially since it would cost at least another $75-150 in customizing to get those figures to where it was needed to be acceptable on a high end shelf.

Then what are we talking about here? You seemed to be indicating that SSC's new higher prices were justified because of SSC's vast improvements.

And that $90 to $160 increase (taking the two ends of your price spectrums) sounds really justified.

Except that the SSC human figs I'm referencing with all those incredibly well done accessories/weapons and in some cases outfits - Luke Jedi, Boussh, Luke Bespin and Rebel Commando - were $50, $55, $60 and $60.

And the SSC human figures I now want that are up for PO (because that's what we're discussing here, right?) - Luke X-Wing and TOD Indy - are $230 and $240.

I know SSC hasn't done many Star Wars/Indy human characters in a long while, but I'm guessing that these two figs - unless they are some bizarre anomaly done for SSC's amusement - are a pretty solid indication of the price going forward. And yes, by mid next year, we WILL be looking at $250+ as the standard SSC 1/6 price.

And no, the improvements as seen in most recent SSC human fig releases in no way justify the price given that quality - in all the categories listed above - has not improved that greatly, and that SSC's delivered product (as opposed to protos) are not up to state-of-the-art 1/6 levels, and they continue to have significant proto-production quality gaps.

And... therefore... I question both the asking price and the application of an NRD, whether it has previously been in use by SSC on busts or PF's or not (the price of a basic 1/6 SSC Luke figure is now about the same as the price of a 1/4 PF from 9 years ago.)

 

[Pixelpiper]

IMO, any talk of "justifying" prices is an utter waste of time and will only lead to some good folks getting slightly bent out of shape. I thought this thread was about Non-Refundable Deposits anyway? Sideshow should just institute a blanket 10% NRD on all pre-orders across the board. It would make a lot more sense.