Okay I've had it, they ARE NOT DOLLS

[denger4000]

Um, hardly, when that was written do you really anyone considered this arugment or thought, oh hey maybe it's not a doll because....I never said the popular opinion of action figures aren't "dolls". So saying that ends the arugment is extremely silly...I guess if it said 1/4 action figure everyone would admit they aren't dolls afterall? I doubt it. I think MWC had by far the most logical point and the debate really should ended with his post.

 

[pixletwin]

Um, hardly, when that was written do you really anyone considered this arugment or thought, oh hey maybe it's not a doll because....I never said the popular opinion of action figures aren't "dolls". So saying that ends the arugment is extremely silly...I guess if it said 1/4 action figure everyone would admit they aren't dolls afterall? I doubt it. I think MWC had by far the most logical point and the debate really should ended with his post.

But we are all having such fun, and that is the point of this thread you said.

again....

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!

 

[Michael Crawford]

Personally, I find the use of the word 'doll' on the side of a PF clouds the issue even further. Of course, it also could be pointed out that Sideshow no longer uses that term - and they aren't Sideshow TOYS any more, but Sideshow COLLECTIBLES. I'm not sure how that plays into anyone's particular definition.

I find it interesting that anyone would even consider calling the 1/4 scale Vampire a 'doll'. Statue, sure. But doll? It isn't an action figure either. Why? Because I would assume - and it has been pointed out by several people here - that dolls and action figures are defined as toys. Playthings. Sideshow's Premium Format figures aren't either, in any way, shape or form. They aren't based on toys, they aren't an extension of action figures. They are based on the concept of statues, and considered by most of us here as improvements on that basic idea.

A statue doesn't become a toy because it's got a cloth outfit instead of a resin one. And it doesn't become a toy if the body underneath is soft material over wire. It's still a statue, with no designs on being a toy. I can understand debating whether an action figure is a doll or not - or whether it's simplly both - because it is based on a toy. But a PF? It's not a doll any more than any mini-bust or statue is.

Personally, I call most of the stuff I collect 'pop culture collectibles'. Look at the 300 figures I just reviewed - they aren't action figures or dolls or any other sort of 'toy'. They really aren't intended for play, period. They are intended to be bought by adults who are fans of the film (pop culture), opened up and posed on a shelf. They're Hummels with 5 or 6 points of articulation.

I prefer my pop culture collectibles to remember their toy roots as much as possible of course. For example, I live the DC minimates. Great toys, and they operate as PCC's too. But for the most part, that's not the case. Things today either tend to be toys - with lower quality sculpts and paint - or they are collectibles - with less articulation and less play function.

So while we debate whether these sixth scale figures are dolls or action figures or some combination, in reality we're all collecting poseable Precious Moments figurines.

 

[pixletwin]

....So while we debate whether these sixth scale figures are dolls or action figures or some combination, in reality we're all collecting poseable Precious Moments figurines.

I'll drink to that Michael.

 

[KitFisto]

I don't see how one could call a PF a "doll". I would think a doll should be poseable which the PF's are not other than slightly bending an arm and praying it doesn't break.

Do I feel that any of what I collect are "dolls"? No, but if someone else does that's fine. Whatever.

 

[sunohc]

hhahaa A PREMIUM FORMAT is like a porcelien doll.
i mean, its got real clothing on!

I call 1:6 figures , FIGUREs, and not dolls.

and yes that picture does end the argument king darkness

 

[chamildav]

The 1/4 scale PF's would be considered "portrait dolls" by some entirely reasonable people. It is why those early boxes have the "offending" word. Figures very much like PF's were called Portrait dolls or figures for a couple of hundred years now. And they have pretty much always been limited collectibles. Meant to teach "children of quality" a little history, how to dress appropriately, things like that. I'm having trouble finding dishonor in the term.
"GI Joe, America's moveable fighting man" is the first action figure. Hasbro invented the term so I think it's kind of nuts to think 1/6th figures aren't action figures. I think it's way more reasonable to argue what those little statues Macfarlane Toys make should be called.
From my personal perspective I don't care what anyone calls them. I've been doing 1/6th since before the first time anyone thought of calling them "Battle Barbies". I joke about them being mandollies myself as do most of my friends. I doubt many really have any serious feelings about what people call the things they collect. If they did they'ed find another way to spend idle time. You know, hanging out at the candy store with the cool kids, smoking in the boys room, cool kid stuff, ya know?
I like Mr. Crawfords column and agree with it. Nice piece.

 

[Michael Crawford]

'portrait dolls' - you know, I've never heard the term! I looked it up and they appear to be largely what the title implies - custom dolls made to look like you, just like a portrait photo. I can certainly see the use of that term for a PF, although I'm betting if you said that to most people you'd get a pretty perplexed look from them

 

[Darth Caedus]

haven't read the entire thread, not sure if I want to, but my only problem with it is that people call them "DOLLS" as a way of degrading them and a way of degrading me collecting them. Case in Point: My buddy collects like I do. His brother's girlfriend came over and she walked by my buddy's room and looked on his shelf and said: "Uhhh...why does your brother collect DOLLS." At that point, I snapped and chewed her head off, but do you see my point? I have no problem with calling them "dolls" just don't use the word to put them or me down.

 

[FrankenFan]

A "statue" is a life-size sculpture meant to represent a particular person, historical event, etc, i.e., the Lou Costello Statue in Paterson, NJ. A statue can also be many times greater than life-size, i.e., the Statue of Liberty.

A small statue is commonly referred to as a "statuette."

A "figurine" is usually smaller than a statuette, i.e., Hummels.

A "figure," as defined by Dictionary.com," is "to represent by a pictorial or sculptured figure..."

Dictionary.com defines "doll" and "action figure," respectively, as "a small figure representing a baby or other human being, esp. for use as a child's toy," and, "a toy doll representing a person or fictional character known for heroic or superheroic feats."

Alternately, a "doll" can be a generous or helpful person.

I did not find any official definitions of the term "1:6-scale collectible figure," so that phase currently exists only in the pop culture lexicon of the (fill-in-the-blank) collector, rather than the official dictionary of society at large.

On their product pages, Sideshow describes their 1:6-scale offerings as "12-inch (fill-in-the-blank) figure(s)." Checking the source code of Sideshow's home page further reveals that they refer to their various product as "film, television and proprietary collectible figures, statues and high end pieces;" "movie television and proprietary collectible figures;" "articulated 12 inch figure body;" and "military 12 inch action figures."

You pays yer money and you takes yer choice.

 

[pixletwin]

Thanks FrankenFan. You are a doll.

 

[Morgan the Raider]

I think they are dolls and they are all toys. I don't mean it as a degrading term, it's just what these things are. It really doesn't matter what term a person uses. If they are being derogatory that's the problem, not the word they use.

Honestly, collecting this stuff is pretty silly when you really think about it. And I've got as much of this "silly" stuff as any of the people on this board.

I guess my point is not to let a particular word have too much power over you and what you do.

Who cares if someone says you collect dolls or toys. I could give a crap what other people think of how I get my enjoyment. Their degradation is showing a window to their soul. People that need to degrade others usually have a hole somewhere inside that they need to cover up by bashing others.

Course that's just my opinion.

 

[sunohc]

i love how statue and PF collectors sometimes try to make their collection look "hip" compared to 12" figure by saying they're dolls or toys.
in the eyes of a regular person who doens't collector, we're all weird
i rather call them figures though. high quality collectibles

 

[screamingmetal]

'portrait dolls' - you know, I've never heard the term! I looked it up and they appear to be largely what the title implies - custom dolls made to look like you, just like a portrait photo. I can certainly see the use of that term for a PF, although I'm betting if you said that to most people you'd get a pretty perplexed look from them

The first time I saw "Premium Format" figure was back in 1988 or so when my father bought my mom a 18" mostly pre-posed padded wire framed mixed media doll with cloth clothes from Hong Kong.
I never knew about Portrait dolls, but I do know Sideshow didn't invent the format.

 

[Masao]

I liken it to marbles. We used to just call them all marbles. Then as I grew older I found that the biggest ones we called Tom Bowlers and the little ones we called pee wee's. Then they brought out different sorts, various colours. We even started using ball bearings.

They are not Ball Bearings they are Steelies!

 

[Masao]

DOLLS = Action Figures

Action Figures = DOLLS

1/6th scaled figures = DOLLS

DOLLS = 1/6th scaled figures

12" figures = DOLLS

DOLLS = 12" figures

BARBIES = DOLLS

DOLLS = BARBIES

Cabage Patch = DOLLS

DOLLS = Cabage Patch

GI JOEs = DOLLS

DOLLS = GI JOEs


Some of you just need to face the facts. These are ultimately TOYS and DOLLS. Doll is a general term for something resembling a human, which these "1/6 scaled articulated highly detailed artist sculpted limited edition original licensed collectible figures" are. Spin it anyway you want, but the term DOLL is still relevant.

Ok, I have to disagree with part of your definitions and some of your definitions.

Mainly that sculptures are not necessarily dolls. It would be incorrect to call any of Mc Farlane's figures dolls since they do not function as dolls.

Dolls are derived from the concept of cloth/clothed figures. Puppets function differently from dolls as do sculptures (i.e. figurines, busts, statues) but primarily, dolls serve the function of wearing clothes or being made of cloth. While puppets do both, they are not dolls.

Originally, dolls were either training aides (baby dolls) or a transmission of fashion (manniquins)

The term "action figure" blurs the lines because it applies to both doll types and statue type figures.

Basically, if it has cloth clothes, it is a doll type figure. If it has sculpted clothes it is a statue type.

And BTW, action refers to combat. If it is intended to hold a weapon or be posed in a fighting pose, it is an action figure.

A note about Babs. By now most collectors have figured out that she is a confused figure for many reasons. She was a concept stolen from a sexy men's figure called Bild Lili. The Lili concept puts a a new spin on the definition of 'action' by implying that sex is also 'action'. There is also the fact that some Babs dolls are action figures and other Babs dolls are not! *

Babs has become even further confused by the fact that now she is both a villainess and a sexual character -she has been several villainesses as well as a Bond Girl, all of which violates the Babs teenage innocent-girl-next-door concept. (Not to mention that she has gotten pregnant by her own brother, but that is another issue. )

Not all 1/6 scale figures are dolls. I have several sculptures that cannot function as dolls nor are they toys.

Not all Gi Joes are dolls either. The small articulated toy soldiers cannot funtion as dolls. The non-articulated figures (toy soldiers) cannot as well.

It gets even more confusing when we consider that the old version of the manniquin dolls are not even toys and baby dolls are!

Function determines definition.



*(Ken is not an action figure and is too flacid ever to become one even with Max Steel's body.)

 

[customizerwannabe]

I've always affectionately referred to my 12" collection as dolls. It's said tongue in cheek of course. If you can't laugh at yourself in this hobby, there are plenty of people waiting in line to laugh at you. Enjoy the dolls and get over the semantics.

 

[amarcord]

I've always affectionately referred to my 12" collection as dolls. It's said tongue in cheek of course. If you can't laugh at yourself in this hobby, there are plenty of people waiting in line to laugh at you. Enjoy the dolls and get over the semantics.

Well said sir!

 

[KitFisto]

Some of you just need to face the facts

I don't see how anyone's opinion is a fact. It is to each person what it is. To many, price is a big factor. They have a hard time compairing a $400 Vader PF to a Cabbage Patch doll and I can see why. Others just see it as a much more expensive "doll".

To each his/her own is the bottom line here.

 

[PosterBoyKelly]

Action Figures = DOLLS

1/6th scaled figures = DOLLS

DOLLS = 1/6th scaled figures

12" figures = DOLLS

DOLLS = 12" figures

BARBIES = DOLLS

DOLLS = BARBIES

Cabage Patch = DOLLS

DOLLS = Cabage Patch

GI JOEs = DOLLS


DOLLS= TOYS




TOYS