Patriotism.

[karamazov80]

Since you started the thread, it might help if you start by providing your own opinion here. I think nationalism is a modern manifestation of a survival instinct developed over the course of human evolution. We establish a group identity as a means of better protecting ourselves and our families from external danger. I'm curious about how the nature of nationality will change with the erosion of the importance of state borders in the modern world. Power is a function of your economic strength, not necessarily how much land you acquire or how many tanks you have. Wal-Mart has a greater income than most states in the world.

 

[GeneralZodLives]

I'm glad I live in America. That being said, I find myself constantly irritated with the "We're #1" mentality, especially when it comes from people that don't contribute anything other than judgement towards those (like myself) that wish we were doing things better.

 

[azurepred]

Power is a function of your economic strength

then we are one the weakest countries out there. How many millions on food stamps? unemployed? In dept up to their eye balls? The govt allowed this to happen, so they could print money out of thin air to pad their wallets. At some point, everything will break and who knows what will happen. I hate the people that run this country and hate is a strong word.

I'm glad I live in America. That being said, I find myself constantly irritated with the "We're #1" mentality, especially when it comes from people that don't contribute anything other than judgement towards those (like myself) that wish we were doing things better.

China is number one. Who is it that almost every country owes money to? China. If that isn't power, I don't know what is. The govt seems to think that if they spend billions of dollars to put troops in every country in the world, that they are doing something special. Countries don't want us there. America tries to control too many countries when they should focus on their own.

 

[The Ween]

I may not like everything that our government does, but at least I'm free to ***** about it.

 

[Uncanny Web-Slinger]

Proud of the good qualities of my country and ashamed of the bad. I'll stand up for my country but wouldn't be blind or arrogant to suggest it's the best

 

[Lejuan]

I'm happy to be living where I live, and appreciate my good fortune in being born in a country that has high standards of education, political, social and creative freedoms, health care, access to technology and a clean environment. I do what I can to sustain and develop it.

I'd say I was "humbly patriotic". I'm not a flag waver.

 

[Darth Snoopy]

'Merica!



​

 

[karamazov80]

then we are one the weakest countries out there. How many millions on food stamps? unemployed? In dept up to their eye balls? The govt allowed this to happen, so they could print money out of thin air to pad their wallets. At some point, everything will break and who knows what will happen. I hate the people that run this country and hate is a strong word.

My point earlier is that states aren't the only ones wielding power in the modern political context, and at some point I think that's going to change the nature of nationalism. Of course, this has been the case for hundreds of years, but now with the globally interdependent nature of trade, it's a whole new ballgame. Having said that, the U.S. still has, by far, the largest GDP in the world. China isn't really very close, but it's much closer than anyone else. And the issue of debt is a noteworthy one. For that reason, and the fact that the U.S. relies so heavily on imports from China, China has had a lot of free reign to manipulate their currency, impose various barriers to free trade like tariffs and dumping, and has been able to engage in crackdowns over freedom of expression domestically without anyone doing much about it.

 

[Lejuan]

God help us if China becomes the world's most powerful country.

 

[karamazov80]

I'm happy to be living where I live, and appreciate my good fortune in being born in a country that has high standards of education, political, social and creative freedoms, health care, access to technology and a clean environment. I do what I can to sustain and develop it.

Several of these are issues that the United States, by and large, hasn't prioritized. And that's too bad, but then, there are tradeoffs between overall economic wellbeing and catering to the domestic social wellbeing. I think one of the biggest potential issues for the U.S. moving forward is the lack of serious attention being paid to high quality public education. As usual, politics trumps everything else, and as a result we have a kind of stagnation where everyone loses. The quality of public education in my state, particularly, is pathetic, and only gets worse when a grandstanding governor acts against the interests of public education in his effort to self-promote in the hopes of achieving higher office one day. That's one area where China is much more forward thinking, and it could pay huge dividends for them down the road. In China, with obvious exceptions you will see everywhere, you succeed or fail scholastically based on merit. In the U.S., the deck is hugely stacked against you if you aren't born into a family that either lives in a good public school district, or has the knowledge and resources to put you into a good school that will provide you with sufficient opportunities. And the basis of economic wellbeing ultimately is a skilled, well educated workforce.

 

[azurepred]

Proud of the good qualities of my country and ashamed of the bad. I'll stand up for my country but wouldn't be blind or arrogant to suggest it's the best

this is prolly more on the lines how I feel. 3 things I hope happen with the next President is the banning of cigarettes (more emphasis on a cleaner environment) , making the school systems a priority and putting people to work instead of paying them to sit on their ass all day. If we are going to continue food stamps, the minimum wage needs to rise.

My point earlier is that states aren't the only ones wielding power in the modern political context, and at some point I think that's going to change the nature of nationalism.

how do you think nationalism will change?

 

[azurepred]

Several of these are issues that the United States, by and large, hasn't prioritized. And that's too bad, but then, there are tradeoffs between overall economic wellbeing and catering to the domestic social wellbeing. I think one of the biggest potential issues for the U.S. moving forward is the lack of serious attention being paid to high quality public education. As usual, politics trumps everything else, and as a result we have a kind of stagnation where everyone loses. The quality of public education in my state, particularly, is pathetic, and only gets worse when a grandstanding governor acts against the interests of public education in his effort to self-promote in the hopes of achieving higher office one day. That's one area where China is much more forward thinking, and it could pay huge dividends for them down the road. In China, with obvious exceptions you will see everywhere, you succeed or fail scholastically based on merit. In the U.S., the deck is hugely stacked against you if you aren't born into a family that either lives in a good public school district, or has the knowledge and resources to put you into a good school that will provide you with sufficient opportunities. And the basis of economic wellbeing ultimately is a skilled, well educated workforce.

agreed. California is horrendous as well. Good to know we aren't the only state being black balled with education. If we are going to continue to make education difficult, meaning not meeting the demand for professions in creating programs and just making everything a damn lottery, more help should be given to struggling students.

 

[karamazov80]

how do you think nationalism will change?

I'm not sure, but it's had to evolve in the past. We haven't always had an interstate system like we do now. We had ancient city-states, and tribalism before that. But I don't think we've reached the logical end of political organization by a long shot.

 

[Lejuan]

Several of these are issues that the United States, by and large, hasn't prioritized. And that's too bad, but then, there are tradeoffs between overall economic wellbeing and catering to the domestic social wellbeing. I think one of the biggest potential issues for the U.S. moving forward is the lack of serious attention being paid to high quality public education. As usual, politics trumps everything else, and as a result we have a kind of stagnation where everyone loses. The quality of public education in my state, particularly, is pathetic, and only gets worse when a grandstanding governor acts against the interests of public education in his effort to self-promote in the hopes of achieving higher office one day. That's one area where China is much more forward thinking, and it could pay huge dividends for them down the road. In China, with obvious exceptions you will see everywhere, you succeed or fail scholastically based on merit. In the U.S., the deck is hugely stacked against you if you aren't born into a family that either lives in a good public school district, or has the knowledge and resources to put you into a good school that will provide you with sufficient opportunities. And the basis of economic wellbeing ultimately is a skilled, well educated workforce.

The trade-offs are significant - China's education system may be built on the principle of merit, but socially it is a basket-case. Learning is largely by rote and students generally don't develop the capacity for individual, creative thinking and problem-solving that democratic systems promote. And on graduating from formal education, access to the most desirable positions is highly politicised.

Seems to me that as much as Americans observe and focus on the social and political divisions that have developed and accelerated in recent years, it is still the world's most optimistic nation. It is a hustler society bent on identifying and exploiting opportunity. But as you say, not everyone has the access they should be afforded by merit.

Personally, as much as I love America's entrepreneurial spirit, I'm very happy to be living in laid-back Australia. But that has its downsides too, namely a tendency to be overly satisfied with the way things are and not strive for our potential in many areas.

 

[karamazov80]

I agree with you. U.S. optimism is definitely one of its defining traits, which is in part a function of its history and geographic location (Europeans have good reason to be much more cynical and "realistic" about their place in the world, how much they can truly accomplish, etc.). And that certainly places a higher ceiling on potential innovations. But tied into that is the popular belief that the "free" market should be allowed free reign so that the U.S. citizenry can properly take advantage of these opportunities. And that means lower taxes than other places in the world, and fewer social supports. Which leads to less of a focus on public education and public health, and in turn, to fewer macroeconomic prospects. Many don't seem to realize this dilemma, unfortunately.

As for China, I do agree that more "in the box" thinking takes place there, which has pros and cons. If you look at graduate enrollment in U.S. universities (globally recognized as among the very best in the world), there are extremely high rates of Chinese (and Indian) enrollment in the sciences and engineering. This is a result of what you're talking about, because the government and families are pushing kids into STEM (science, tech., engineering, math) fields of study. But most of these students don't have ambitions of being the next Bill Gates. They just want a comfortable living, and they can get that by devoting their professional lives to this kind of work. In the U.S., there's much less of that kind of push, but on the other hand, we have ambitious kids who want to run large businesses, who want to change government in fundamental ways, and who want to not only live well, but to become wealthy and powerful.

 

[The Ween]

The trade-offs are significant - China's education system may be built on the principle of merit, but socially it is a basket-case. Learning is largely by rote and students generally don't develop the capacity for individual, creative thinking and problem-solving that democratic systems promote. And on graduating from formal education, access to the most desirable positions is highly politicised.

Seems to me that as much as Americans observe and focus on the social and political divisions that have developed and accelerated in recent years, it is still the world's most optimistic nation. It is a hustler society bent on identifying and exploiting opportunity. But as you say, not everyone has the access they should be afforded by merit.

Personally, as much as I love America's entrepreneurial spirit, I'm very happy to be living in laid-back Australia. But that has its downsides too, namely a tendency to be overly satisfied with the way things are and not strive for our potential in many areas.

I worry about Australia is many ways. From what I've picked up, a lot of their paths are leading to the same problems that we're having now. I hope that isn't the case.

 

[cilantropants]

I think you'll find that, in every nation, the most patriotic are usually the most ignorant. At the same time, a person who feels absolute disconnection from the place they're born just has no soul or much of a mind.

 

[fosing]

 

[GalaxySupreme]

I agree with you. U.S. optimism is definitely one of its defining traits, which is in part a function of its history and geographic location (Europeans have good reason to be much more cynical and "realistic" about their place in the world, how much they can truly accomplish, etc.). And that certainly places a higher ceiling on potential innovations. But tied into that is the popular belief that the "free" market should be allowed free reign so that the U.S. citizenry can properly take advantage of these opportunities. And that means lower taxes than other places in the world, and fewer social supports. Which leads to less of a focus on public education and public health, and in turn, to fewer macroeconomic prospects. Many don't seem to realize this dilemma, unfortunately.

As for China, I do agree that more "in the box" thinking takes place there, which has pros and cons. If you look at graduate enrollment in U.S. universities (globally recognized as among the very best in the world), there are extremely high rates of Chinese (and Indian) enrollment in the sciences and engineering. This is a result of what you're talking about, because the government and families are pushing kids into STEM (science, tech., engineering, math) fields of study. But most of these students don't have ambitions of being the next Bill Gates. They just want a comfortable living, and they can get that by devoting their professional lives to this kind of work. In the U.S., there's much less of that kind of push, but on the other hand, we have ambitious kids who want to run large businesses, who want to change government in fundamental ways, and who want to not only live well, but to become wealthy and powerful.

My ethnicity is Chinese but I grew up here in America. Spent my entire life here, and I was born here. I lived in a apartment project/government subsidized housing for ten years. Then my father's business evolved and improved and now we are living comfortably in middle class. I definitely don't claim to know all aspects of American culture, but I believe I have seen a good amount. I grew up on American movies and television. I am in my twenties and I definitely agree with you, ALOT of American students are in business schools but they are forgoing math and sciences. For a long time, I had the same mindset as many of my peers, that getting a office job and working in a suit and briefcase was the American dream. And that meant going to business school was the goal. So here I am, in my mid twenties, just graduated from a competitive business school. And you know what? I find myself that I couldn't give a damn about that degree I just got. I'm actually prepping myself to go back for a math/hard science degree, because growing up I loved Sci-Fi fantasy.

Oddly enough, many students native to China and India would agree with you absolutely. That math and science (as admirable as those pursuits may be) are definitely cookie cutter. But as an American Chinese I consider that following my dreams.

 

[hoodonit00]

I think you'll find that, in every nation, the most patriotic are usually the most ignorant. At the same time, a person who feels absolute disconnection from the place they're born just has no soul or much of a mind.

So it doesn't matter if you love or hate your country, people are idiots?