Peter Pan Syndrome

[djklambake]

Won't grow up and the girlfriend is actually counting on this as she said I'm gonna be good with kids. I will probably be buying toys until the day I kick it, and she is surprisingly OK with this.

Just make sure she means it... She'll hate herself later on if she tries to change you and finds out that dog don't hunt.

/and it's hard to get your rocks off with someone who hates herself. WINK!

 

[Captain Faramir]

I sat down and felt the need to protect our hobby, to think about why we do what we do. I've explained this to my family a million times, but who has actually tried to understand why we collect like we do? I hope maybe this essay will help one of you explain your hobby to your wife, friends, parents, whatever. I've put a lot into this, and I hope that somebody will have an easier time at home because of it. Use it as you like. It's long, but sometimes things need to be long to be right. Here's something that might help you.

Raising Peter Pan--The Hope at the Heart of Collecting

"People have incredibly distorted understandings of what it means to "Grow up." They perceive maturity as a relentless need to be serious and self-indulgent, obsessed with wealth, power, and pleasure. But do those things matter? What do we put in front of everything else? Can we learn to let go of the our problems and think of simpler joys and purer things? Or are we so tied to the trappings of the world that we can't enjoy our lives while we still have them? Is collecting a material obsession, or does it allow us an escape, a chance to see the world through eyes that are cleaner, purer, and more full of hope?

People have often accused me of being "sheltered," or have warned me about what trauma will happen when I go into the "real world." But do I not live in it already? And why can't we take some of our optimism and innocence with us? Why can't we learn to take the simplicity of childhood into our everyday lives? Isn't that what our hobbies do? For me, it makes me a little kinder, a little happier, and a lot more compassionate towards others. Now, does that mean we never grow up? No, for as Tolkien wrote:

'Children are meant to grow up, and not to become Peter Pans. Not to lose innocence and wonder, but to proceed on the appointed journey: that journey upon which it is certainly not better to travel hopefully than to arrive, though we must travel hopefully if we are to arrive.'

Thinking about "make-believe" people makes me want to be a better person--my morals are higher, my resolve is stronger, and my understanding is deeper. Fantasy heroes--Aragorn, Frodo, Luke Skywalker, Superman--give us examples. They show us a better way to live, a nobler way to persevere. My most beloved character, Faramir, is an example of compassion, a model of avoiding temptation and choosing a better path. Fantasy can make people better. Growing up does not mean abandoning fantasy--it means emulating it. When we can see the world with childlike eyes yet make mature decisions within it, we make it a better place, and we become better people. Who is happier, a child full of optimism and excitement, or an old man embittered by a life of meaningless pursuits, which only leave him with a fat bank account and nobody to share it with?

W. B. Yeats wrote:

The Realists

Hope that you may understand!
What can books of men that wive
In a dragon-guarded land,
Paintings of the dolphin-drawn
Sea-nymphs in their pearly wagons
Do, but awake a hope to live
That had gone
With the dragons?

(Responsibilies, 1914)

I think that at the heart of all collectors is a love for fantasy, not just cool action movies and nifty toys, but the wish that such things were real, that our own world could have its own "happy endings." Collecting our figures, filling our homes with memorabilia, etc., simply reflect that hope that such things could happen--that we could find adventure, excitement, and a happy ending. Is the world so cold that it can't accept that any more? In collecting our "trinkets," we show support for a better world, a more epic future, and a happier life. Before we condemn collectors, let us remember the real value of make-believe, the fantasy which makes collectors who they are. Because ultimately, our habits bring a little joy into our lives, and a hope for a better one to come. I think in our hearts, all we want is a better world, a place where we can find ourselves in a world where greed, violence, and lust are celebrated. Fantasy is a release, and a place where we can remember what really matters. As Tolkien wrote, our play and collecting shows a hope for something far greater.

'The consolation of fairy-stories, the joy of the happy ending: or more correctly of the good catastrophe, the sudden joyous “turn” (for there is no true end to any fairy-tale): this joy, which is one of the things which fairy-stories can produce supremely well, is not essentially “escapist,” nor “fugitive.” In its fairy-tale . . . setting, it is a sudden and miraculous grace: never to be counted on to recur. It does not deny the existence of dyscatastrophe, of sorrow and failure: the possibility of these is necessary to the joy of deliverance; it denies (in the face of much evidence, if you will) universal final defeat . . . giving a fleeting glimpse of Joy, Joy beyond the walls of the world, poignant as grief.'

J. R. R. Tolkien, On Fairy Stories"

 

[nash]

seems like youre trying to make good on the past threads where you pissed your friends off with. I want the old badmoon back.

 

[Memnoch]

Just make sure she means it... She'll hate herself later on if she tries to change you and finds out that dog don't hunt.

/and it's hard to get your rocks off with someone who hates herself. WINK!

Oh she means it, she goes on toy runs with me, for me, picks up packages when I'm away and so on. She actually helps me pick between toys when I can't make my mind up. She also had the same reaction to the HT Tumbler which was "You ARE getting it." She also can't wait to hit up SDCC (hopefully next year) soo I think we've got a keeper. Probably time to throw up a picture of us in the what do you look like thread.

 

[carbo-fation]

I sat down and felt the need to protect our hobby, to think about why we do what we do. I've explained this to my family a million times, but who has actually tried to understand why we collect like we do? I hope maybe this essay will help one of you explain your hobby to your wife, friends, parents, whatever. I've put a lot into this, and I hope that somebody will have an easier time at home because of it. Use it as you like. It's long, but sometimes things need to be long to be right. Here's something that might help you.

Raising Peter Pan--The Hope at the Heart of Collecting

"People have incredibly distorted understandings of what it means to "Grow up." They perceive maturity as a relentless need to be serious and self-indulgent, obsessed with wealth, power, and pleasure. But do those things matter? What do we put in front of everything else? Can we learn to let go of the our problems and think of simpler joys and purer things? Or are we so tied to the trappings of the world that we can't enjoy our lives while we still have them? Is collecting a material obsession, or does it allow us an escape, a chance to see the world through eyes that are cleaner, purer, and more full of hope?

People have often accused me of being "sheltered," or have warned me about what trauma will happen when I go into the "real world." But do I not live in it already? And why can't we take some of our optimism and innocence with us? Why can't we learn to take the simplicity of childhood into our everyday lives? Isn't that what our hobbies do? For me, it makes me a little kinder, a little happier, and a lot more compassionate towards others. Now, does that mean we never grow up? No, for as Tolkien wrote:

'Children are meant to grow up, and not to become Peter Pans. Not to lose innocence and wonder, but to proceed on the appointed journey: that journey upon which it is certainly not better to travel hopefully than to arrive, though we must travel hopefully if we are to arrive.'

Thinking about "make-believe" people makes me want to be a better person--my morals are higher, my resolve is stronger, and my understanding is deeper. Fantasy heroes--Aragorn, Frodo, Luke Skywalker, Superman--give us examples. They show us a better way to live, a nobler way to persevere. My most beloved character, Faramir, is an example of compassion, a model of avoiding temptation and choosing a better path. Fantasy can make people better. Growing up does not mean abandoning fantasy--it means emulating it. When we can see the world with childlike eyes yet make mature decisions within it, we make it a better place, and we become better people. Who is happier, a child full of optimism and excitement, or an old man embittered by a life of meaningless pursuits, which only leave him with a fat bank account and nobody to share it with?

W. B. Yeats wrote:

The Realists

Hope that you may understand!
What can books of men that wive
In a dragon-guarded land,
Paintings of the dolphin-drawn
Sea-nymphs in their pearly wagons
Do, but awake a hope to live
That had gone
With the dragons?

(Responsibilies, 1914)

I think that at the heart of all collectors is a love for fantasy, not just cool action movies and nifty toys, but the wish that such things were real, that our own world could have its own "happy endings." Collecting our figures, filling our homes with memorabilia, etc., simply reflect that hope that such things could happen--that we could find adventure, excitement, and a happy ending. Is the world so cold that it can't accept that any more? In collecting our "trinkets," we show support for a better world, a more epic future, and a happier life. Before we condemn collectors, let us remember the real value of make-believe, the fantasy which makes collectors who they are. Because ultimately, our habits bring a little joy into our lives, and a hope for a better one to come. I think in our hearts, all we want is a better world, a place where we can find ourselves in a world where greed, violence, and lust are celebrated. Fantasy is a release, and a place where we can remember what really matters. As Tolkien wrote, our play and collecting shows a hope for something far greater.

'The consolation of fairy-stories, the joy of the happy ending: or more correctly of the good catastrophe, the sudden joyous “turn” (for there is no true end to any fairy-tale): this joy, which is one of the things which fairy-stories can produce supremely well, is not essentially “escapist,” nor “fugitive.” In its fairy-tale . . . setting, it is a sudden and miraculous grace: never to be counted on to recur. It does not deny the existence of dyscatastrophe, of sorrow and failure: the possibility of these is necessary to the joy of deliverance; it denies (in the face of much evidence, if you will) universal final defeat . . . giving a fleeting glimpse of Joy, Joy beyond the walls of the world, poignant as grief.'

J. R. R. Tolkien, On Fairy Stories"

That's a very well written, well thought out essay, Cap. Great job!

 

[IronFingaz]

I just heard about Peter Pan Syndrom yesterday while watching 2 And A Half Men. Charlie was told he had PPS because he boned young stupid chicks but couldnt get it up in the serious, adult relationship he was in

But i'm wit ya, Keith. I've always been young at heart and never taken things seriously. I love all these "childish" things too much and will never give them up or change for no one. It annoys the hell out of my brother some times, too

And Syndromes are awsome I got one myself

 

[BadMoon]

I just heard about Peter Pan Syndrom yesterday while watching 2 And A Half Men. Charlie was told he had PPS because he boned young stupid chicks but couldnt get it up in the serious, adult relationship he was in

But i'm wit ya, Keith. I've always been young at heart and never taken things seriously. I love all these "childish" things too much and will never give them up or change for no one. It annoys the hell out of my brother some times, too

And Syndromes are awsome I got one myself

Damn and here I thought I came up with that all on my own.

 

[Captain Faramir]

That's a very well written, well thought out essay, Cap. Great job!

Thanks dude. I figured only a few people would take the time to read it, and having been here a long time I know most will likely mock or ignore it , but I thought it might be of worth to somebody who's been struggling with the issue with family or friends--or maybe even themselves. Sometimes it's nice to have a more profound answer for when people ask "why do you collect all this junk?"

Of course, my normal response is just "because I love it!"

 

[Darth Caedus]

How many of you actually remember that commercial and said that you would never grow up? You are lying if you didn't

GOD, I remembered all the words to that song too

I dissagree, the stuff that is made today ( a few exceptions aside) is just not nearly as good as the movies that were made in the past. I'm being nice when i say "not nearly as good".

I totally agree with that. I mentioned something similar to the spoilerage Indy thread. movies made today just focuses on box office, with special effects, etc; but doesn't focus on it being a good movie.

 

[Dusty]

If this is about the new "Indiana Jones" - well, many kids don't really like it that much either, at least the 20-30 I know (ranging in age from 5-18 - I know a lot of 'kids' - through friends/babysitting/my little sister who just turned 19, etc... BTW, they also almost all to a T prefer the original SW trilogy to the prequels... those that even give a hoot about Star Wars at all to begin with, that is).

Let me clarify 'not like it that much' - they may watch and be entertained by the film, but it doesn't inspire them to go out and buy the toys and pretend to whip things and recite the lines and hum the music, like the originals did when we were young... or like Pirates of the Caribbean did for them a few years ago, for instance. Basically, this one was just a cheap thrill for them, easily forgotten. Whether that has something to say about the film itself or simply about the youth these days, who knows. I'm by no means raining on your parade to love the film with reckless abandon - I'm just saying that perhaps your 'just be a kid again' argument doesn't quite hold up to the evidence, in this case

(I think most people who know me will admit that I'm the biggest 'old kid' they know, and I always go into movies with that pure joy and optimism I feel every time upon entering a theater for the first viewing of a movie. Whether I leave with that same feeling is a different matter, and doesn't have anything to do with age... just ask the 5-10 year olds who are bored to tears by 'A New Hope'... But thanks for the sermon )

Also, I would place bets that it's mostly us 'old kids' that are buying the Indy collectibles and playing the Burger King and Dr. Pepper games and NOT the youth - nostalgia is a crazy thing, which plays many mind games with your soul, and Lucas et al know it

 

[Kabukiman]

Leave it to Dusty to make this all about Indy

NOT EVERYTHING IS ABOUT INDY!!!

 

[Dusty]

Leave it to Dusty to make this all about Indy

NOT EVERYTHING IS ABOUT INDY!!!

I think BadMoon started it out that way, didn't he? All I was saying is the theory is a bit flawed if kids don't actually like it that much

And on other 'always be a kid' topics - it's simple: if someone has a problem with your hobbies or personality, then they are not the right person for you. (A 'problem' to a point where it's a MAJOR issue that comes up a lot... disagreeing about movies doesn't count ) Love isn't about changing someone, it's about loving them for who they are and accepting the parts that you don't agree with because they are part of the whole

Now, if your collecting and kid hobbies are getting in the way of paying mortgage and bills, perhaps there's some real need to step back and evaluate the situation, and that person is only trying to help, rather than simply being a nagging shrew - I'm sure you'll be able to tell the difference if that's the case!

 

[Kabukiman]

I think BadMoon started it out that way, didn't he?

*checks page one* Curses. So he did. Well, you still jumped at your opportunity to hate on the movie one more time!

Relating to the "always be a kid" topic and Indy, I took my five year old to see the new one on opening day (which also happened to be my b-day) and it was very surreal. I won't get all philosophical but, it was quite the experience to sit there with my son when 19 years prior, I was seeing Last Crusade with my dad (I think I was in the fourth grade).

When we got home that night, he grabbed his fedora, whip, and ninja turtle katana blade (which, for these purposes was a "machete") and he had me follow him to the wooded area near our apartments where we traveled the various paths in search of the crystal skull while fighting off hordes of the undead. Needless to say, he was Indy. I was Short Round. Short Round wasn't even in KOCS!

Best. B-Day. Ever.

 

[Agent0028]

That's awesome Kabukiman. That's one of the things that makes me want kids. I love playing that way with my little cousin, after I showed him TOD he sometimes calls me Dr. Jones.

 

[BadMoon]

Leave it to Dusty to make this all about Indy

NOT EVERYTHING IS ABOUT INDY!!!

Yeah I did mention Indy but this was not in relation to the movie. I just wanted an example at least for me anyways. It was merely my idea of why things may be taken so serious. IE the price of figures, the whine here, the I hate this and I hate thats. If that makes sense.

 

[Dusty]

*checks page one* Curses. So he did. Well, you still jumped at your opportunity to hate on the movie one more time!

Relating to the "always be a kid" topic and Indy, I took my five year old to see the new one on opening day (which also happened to be my b-day) and it was very surreal. I won't get all philosophical but, it was quite the experience to sit there with my son when 19 years prior, I was seeing Last Crusade with my dad (I think I was in the fourth grade).

When we got home that night, he grabbed his fedora, whip, and ninja turtle katana blade (which, for these purposes was a "machete") and he had me follow him to the wooded area near our apartments where we traveled the various paths in search of the crystal skull while fighting off hordes of the undead. Needless to say, he was Indy. I was Short Round. Short Round wasn't even in KOCS!

Best. B-Day. Ever.

Wow, that's really awesome!!! I must say I have not had that experience with Indy yet. Most kids I mention it to are like, 'Oh yeah, Indiana Jones, he's okay... But how about that Jack Sparrow, savvy? My bunk bed's the ship, and I'll make you walk the plank!" Either that they like the Pixar stuff. And Iron Man - and Super Friends - superheroes are really big in my 'little person' crowd. Even Star Wars to some extent, although not quite to the extent my friends and I used to play

Since this also started out as a 'science and psychology' thread... sometimes I wonder if it has to do with parental influence / nostalgia as well? Like if you hadn't bought him the toys before seeing the film, or shown him any of the other Indy movies... if he went in fresh? From a scientist's point of view, only that would be a true scientific experiment (not that I'm saying kids should be used as scientific experiments or anything... NEVER!! )

(Sorry, I'm an anthropologist / archaeologist at heart so I'm always really interested in how environment plays a role. Back in the day, no one knew who Indy was, so our generation - as kids - had NO prior conceptions before going in with our childlike curiosity.)

Anyhoo... you've noticed I'm now staying away from the Indy Crystal Skull discussions in the Indy forum But this is a much broader topic, that also takes into consideration many topics other than film, so it's worth a bit of a 'look from the other side'

Just HOW did we get to the point where we are today?

 

[BadMoon]

Since this also started out as a 'science and psychology' thread... sometimes I wonder if it has to do with parental influence / nostalgia as well? Just HOW did we get to the point where we are today?

For me it is interesting yet sad. My dad took me to see Return of the Jedi. I have since seen every SW movie with him. He introduced me to SciFi. I have loved all of that for years. Then something horrible happened. I was 18 and my parents decided to seperate. I was ok with that at first. After all I was an adult. Then my dad changed. We had an argument and it was really bad. He was with a new woman and decided to not pay as much attention to my sister or I. By that I mean he always expected us to call him and come to him versus sometimes call us and come to him. After a few years things just started to get better. I still had to be the one to reach out but I didn't care. We would go see our movies but I could tell he lost interest. So the day of my wedding comes and goes. My wife and I get back from our honeymoon. A day later I get a phone call. The caller ID shows my dads number. My wife said OMG it's your dad. I was so excited that he finally called me out of the blue. I reached for the phone and excitedly said hi dad. Well it wasn't him. It was his new wife telling me he was in the hospital. He died 3 months later. I know this is a really quick glimpse but I don't feel like getting into all of the details.

So I think for me why I grade stuff by that I mean figures, movies, life, and everything else is because I equate it to times I spent with my dad and the things we both enjoyed. Plus I things to make me feel young again. My dad really wasn't that into Indy. But that is not my point. I am talking about being a kid. At one point he lost it. That made me really sad. Again I don't know if I am making complete sense but I am trying. Life throws us curve balls. I just hope that I never lose the kid in me. I always think I am close. I just never want to lose it. So you ask how we get to points? It is either pain or success. Most likely a combination. One might call it life.

 

[Kabukiman]

...sometimes I wonder if it has to do with parental influence / nostalgia as well? Like if you hadn't bought him the toys before seeing the film, or shown him any of the other Indy movies... if he went in fresh? From a scientist's point of view, only that would be a true scientific experiment (not that I'm saying kids should be used as scientific experiments or anything... NEVER!! )

I've often wondered that. The wife seems to think that boys look up to their Dads and will share interests no matter what they may be. I think there are several factors that have a pretty strong influence on kids including, but not limited to parents, television, marketing tie-ins (happy meals, cereal, etc.), and school.

School seems to produce the most "misses." By "misses" I mean things kids will feign interest in to fit in to a particular group. I see it all the time with him; he'd tell me how he played "Dragonball Z" during recess, but shows no interest in it at home.

This is where I expect the "How can you tell if he's feigning interest around you?" question. To which I can only say, when you know somebody as well as a parent knows (or should know) a child, you can tell. For instance, I like baseball. My son will play along (not that I push him to) and go to the occasional game or watch half an inning on television with me, but I can tell he's just humoring me.

You mention Pirates, Pixar, and Iron Man. In our house, those seem to cycle with the advertising. The mainstays have been Star Wars, Indiana Jones, and comic book heros in general. I think there are two reasons for this, at least in my son's case, that cannot be tied to outside influence.

1) If you're going to run around the house beating up bad guys, you're going to do with while humming a John Williams score. The music really seems to stick more than the actual movie when it comes to re-enactment and action figure play time.

2) Curiosity. With Star Wars there are six movies, a cast of thousands, and an infinite expanded universe. That's enough to get any kid's imagination going for a very long time. With Indiana Jones, the movies are based in reality. I love being asked history questions, and making trips to the museum or library to expand the little person's understanding about a subject they are now passionate about because a movie sparked his imagination. This was true with Pirates as well (not Jack Sparrow, etc. but he became interested in learning about "real" pirates). Comic book heroes provide kind of the same amount of unlimited storytelling potential I described about Star Wars. (Though, you might count that as parental influence because I don't think many parents have such an extensive comic collection or enclyclopedic knowledge of all things Marvel and DC such as myself. )

Holy crap that was long. And upon reading, not totally coherent. Oh well, I'm not re-writing that. I hope some of it makes sense.

edit: Man, BM, that's some story. I had a falling out with my parents and sisters and really to talk to them much. You're making me want to pick up the phone, man...

 

[BadMoon]

I've often wondered that. The wife seems to think that boys look up to their Dads and will share interests no matter what they may be. I think there are several factors that have a pretty strong influence on kids including, but not limited to parents, television, marketing tie-ins (happy meals, cereal, etc.), and school.

School seems to produce the most "misses." By "misses" I mean things kids will feign interest in to fit in to a particular group. I see it all the time with him; he'd tell me how he played "Dragonball Z" during recess, but shows no interest in it at home.

This is where I expect the "How can you tell if he's feigning interest around you?" question. To which I can only say, when you know somebody as well as a parent knows (or should know) a child, you can tell. For instance, I like baseball. My son will play along (not that I push him to) and go to the occasional game or watch half an inning on television with me, but I can tell he's just humoring me.

You mention Pirates, Pixar, and Iron Man. In our house, those seem to cycle with the advertising. The mainstays have been Star Wars, Indiana Jones, and comic book heros in general. I think there are two reasons for this, at least in my son's case, that cannot be tied to outside influence.

1) If you're going to run around the house beating up bad guys, you're going to do with while humming a John Williams score. The music really seems to stick more than the actual movie when it comes to re-enactment and action figure play time.

2) Curiosity. With Star Wars there are six movies, a cast of thousands, and an infinite expanded universe. That's enough to get any kid's imagination going for a very long time. With Indiana Jones, the movies are based in reality. I love being asked history questions, and making trips to the museum or library to expand the little person's understanding about a subject they are now passionate about because a movie sparked his imagination. This was true with Pirates as well (not Jack Sparrow, etc. but he became interested in learning about "real" pirates). Comic book heroes provide kind of the same amount of unlimited storytelling potential I described about Star Wars. (Though, you might count that as parental influence because I don't think many parents have such an extensive comic collection or enclyclopedic knowledge of all things Marvel and DC such as myself. )

Holy crap that was long. And upon reading, not totally coherent. Oh well, I'm not re-writing that. I hope some of it makes sense.

Honestly what is great is to read your posts. They make sense perfectly to me. There is nothing better than that. NOTHING.

 

[Agent0028]

Made sense to me too.