Rank the Batman films!

[pturtle]

I'm not familiar with that thread but you can't deny the obvious plot holes that TDR suffers from?

Off the top of my head, I can’t really think of any major plot holes. The only complaints I heard that I have no answers for are the cops being held prisoner for months and never had to shave, yet came out beard free and the fire bat symbol being lit up.

 

[Rotfish]

Batman '89
The Dark Knight
Batman Returns / Batman Begins
The Dark Knight Rises
Batman Forever
Batman and Robin

I'll comment on Returns and say that while it was an odd entry in the series, I like odd. Usually Tim Burton's brand of odd gets stale rather quickly for me, but BR didn't quite cross the line into that territory. Penguin was gross, Schreck was delightfully campy, and Catwoman was... well, Catwoman. Plain and simple, my favorite interpretation of her. Great art direction in general. I'd really like HT to hurry up with their figures because everyone looked so damn cool.

 

[a-dev]

Hmmm, I like those ratings. I think mine might be that.

 

[Sidious-66]

Off the top of my head, I can’t really think of any major plot holes. The only complaints I heard that I have no answers for are the cops being held prisoner for months and never had to shave, yet came out beard free and the fire bat symbol being lit up.

From the top of my head -

The C.I.A lets people on the plane without checking their faces and also what if Bane had been shot first?

Broken back miracle.

Bruce returning to Gotham easily.

No-one recognises Wayne in Italy.

Coleman Reese?

 

[Sidious-66]

Batman '89
The Dark Knight
Batman Returns / Batman Begins
The Dark Knight Rises
Batman Forever
Batman and Robin

I'll comment on Returns and say that while it was an odd entry in the series, I like odd. Usually Tim Burton's brand of odd gets stale rather quickly for me, but BR didn't quite cross the line into that territory. Penguin was gross, Schreck was delightfully campy, and Catwoman was... well, Catwoman. Plain and simple, my favorite interpretation of her. Great art direction in general. I'd really like HT to hurry up with their figures because everyone looked so damn cool.

My main gripe is that Burton should have fussed his Batman movies tighter together. Barring some dialogue and Batman, Alfred Commissioner Gordon and the Batmobile you would think they were worlds apart.

 

[crows]

Yeah Forever was a blast and I liked Kilmer as Wayne and Batman and I really enjoyed the movie.

Man Kilmer had some 1995 did he not? Being the new Batman and starring in Heat with De Niro and Pacino, where did it all go wrong?

you really don't know? really??? Val is a nightmare to work with apparently. one of those actors that no one wants to deal with.

The production of Batman Forever was such a mess I am surprised they were able to make the movie at all Tommy Lee Jones hated Jim Carrey and didn't consider him a good actor, they kept trying to out do each other, at the same time you had the director dealing with Val Kilmer and his mood swings

 

[Sidious-66]

you really don't know? really??? Val is a nightmare to work with apparently. one of those actors that no one wants to deal with.

The production of Batman Forever was such a mess I am surprised they were able to make the movie at all Tommy Lee Jones hated Jim Carrey and didn't consider him a good actor, they kept trying to out do each other, at the same time you had the director dealing with Val Kilmer and his mood swings

Oh I knew buddy. I have read the stories and actually seen a thing on TV were some people were calling him the biggest jerk in Hollywood. But Hollywood is full of jerks and he seemed to be black balled for something I'm sure there is plenty of in Hollywood.

Pacino and De Niro never said anything bad about him from what I remember?

Yeah I knew about the Carrey/TLJ one-upmanship but to be honest Carrey's Riddler was a hell of a lot better than TLJ 2-face.

 

[Burning Saber]

Batman Begins
Batman Returns
The Dark Knight
Mask of the Phantasm
Batman '66
Batman '89
The Dark Knight Rises
Batman Forever
Batman & Robin

Truthfully though, I love each and every Batman film in some way (Yes. even Batman & Robin in all of its awfulness). I love the character so much that I can appreciate each and every interpretation of the Batman; whether it be Nolan`s vision, or Burton`s or the camp of the 60`s. Each film has things that I like about them and each film had things I loathed about them. And while I do have my preferred version for how I envision what Batman `should` be, I`m never going to sit here and say one version is better than the other.

 

[Rotfish]

My main gripe is that Burton should have fussed his Batman movies tighter together. Barring some dialogue and Batman, Alfred Commissioner Gordon and the Batmobile you would think they were worlds apart.

Eh, Bats '89 was a bit of an oddball flick too. Maybe it was because I wasn't born until two years after Returns, but I never saw them as being too different from each other. Even though Burton took more risks with the sequel, it's not like he didn't with the first.

 

[pturtle]

From the top of my head -

The C.I.A lets people on the plane without checking their faces and also what if Bane had been shot first?

Broken back miracle.

Bruce returning to Gotham easily.

No-one recognises Wayne in Italy.

Coleman Reese?

The C.I.A lets people on the plane without checking their faces and also what if Bane had been shot first?

How is this a plot hole? Maybe some convenient writing, which every superhero movie suffers from, but I wouldn’t call this a plot hole.

Broken back miracle.

His back was broken, and while he might have recovered a bit quickly, I don’t see how this is a plot hole. Again it probably could have been written a bit better

Bruce returning to Gotham easily.

In Batman Begins shows he knows how to get around, he’s Batman for god sakes, I don’t how him finding away back into Gotham is that unbelievable

No-one recognizes Wayne in Italy.

Again, I wouldn’t call this a plot hole, everyone believes he’s dead, and I don’t think these films ever made him out to be Tony Stark level of famous. Most people that actually would have stopped to notice him would probably think he looks just like Bruce Wayne

Coleman Reese?

Not sure what you mean by this. What does he have to do with TDKR’s plot?

I really don’t see any of these complaints actually hindering the overall all film. These come off as nitpicking complaints, which your entitled to of course but I hope you nitpick all superhero movies like this, and judge them accordingly. You can find bigger plot holes in other superhero movies that people love to ignore, such as Spider-Man 2, how the hell is Doc Ock able to sustain so much punishment from Spider-Man when he’s just a regular overweight human being that has some tentacles attached to his spine. How is it physically possible for Spiderman to lose his powers because he lost his responsibility? How convenient is it that Doc Ock decides to rob the same bank as the one Peter and Aunt May are at, at the exact same time they’re there. I know Difabio love Spider-man 2, but he seems okay with ignoring these plot holes, and bad writing.

For some reason Nolan’s Batman films get judged harsher than any other superhero movie out there.

 

[Burning Saber]

My main gripe is that Burton should have fussed his Batman movies tighter together. Barring some dialogue and Batman, Alfred Commissioner Gordon and the Batmobile you would think they were worlds apart.

I remember reading that Burton didn't like the idea of doing sequels and would only do it by conceiving it as a completely separate entity.

 

[Sidious-66]

Eh, Bats '89 was a bit of an oddball flick too. Maybe it was because I wasn't born until two years after Returns, but I never saw them as being too different from each other. Even though Burton took more risks with the sequel, it's not like he didn't with the first.

Nah to me Gotham looked different for a start it looked like it had been totally revamped in the space of the two films. Burton should have kept the look and feel of the '89 Gotham. Baring a few bit's of dialogue and the character that I have already mentioned you could be thinking that they are in different Batman worlds.

Yeah '89 was oddball material but Returns I feel went in another oddball direction.

 

[DiFabio]

Eh, Bats '89 was a bit of an oddball flick too. Maybe it was because I wasn't born until two years after Returns, but I never saw them as being too different from each other. Even though Burton took more risks with the sequel, it's not like he didn't with the first.

There's nothing in '89 that's as crazy as Batman Returns. Nothing.

Joker didn't start coughing up thick bile from his ****ing liver in his death scene. There wasn't a sexual innuendo every 5 minutes. Penguin and his gang of triangle circus terrorists make the Joker from the first film look normal. Oh, and it never snowed! Batman 1989 was grounded in some 30s/40s crime reality, Batman Returns? It's a Gothic fairy tale land with Ice princesses and rocket penguins. They couldn't be further apart. The shift in "universe" was just as jarring as the jump from Dark Knight to TDKR.

I think the only risk Burton took in the first film was moving away from the 60s since that show was so engrained pop culture. Taking on a "dark Batman" was the only risk, and it could have backfired. Well, that and the casting of Keaton along with things like the black Batman armor (instead of a grey and black leotard).

 

[Adolfo]

Ddick Tracy woulda fit right in Burton's Gotham

 

[Jameson Rook]

So we're ranking theatrical releases only? Well:

1. Mask of the Phantasm
2. Batman
3. The Dark Knight
4. Batman Begins
5. Batman Returns
7. Batman Forever
8. Batman & Robin (hey, it's a comedy!)
9. The Dark Knight Rises. (I'm so sorry, it just didn't worked for me).

 

[Sidious-66]

@pturtle -

How is this a plot hole? Maybe some convenient writing, which every superhero movie suffers from, but I wouldn’t call this a plot hole.

Yeah but the plot here was written in that we were to believe that the CIA would just take a gamble on picking up this international terrorist and not do that simplest of tasks and remove his mask first.

His back was broken, and while he might have recovered a bit quickly, I don’t see how this is a plot hole. Again it probably could have been written a bit better

They should not have done the broken bat (physical) here in the movie and should have went with the 'Bane had destroyed Gotham thus breaking what Batman vowed would never happen' angle and also the movie is not long enough to tell the story of a man recovering from this horrific injury unless Nolan wrote that he was in the Pit for as long as he was in his house between the TDK and this movie which he did not. How the hell does he recover from that in a Pit anyways?

In Batman Begins shows he knows how to get around, he’s Batman for god sakes, I don’t how him finding away back into Gotham is that unbelievable



He is Batman not Houdini. Why did Nolan not show him arriving back in Gotham or have him telling the Cat how he did it? Because Nolan knew that he couldn't. Perhaps he used the Tube like Kilmer in Forever to get around.

Again, I wouldn’t call this a plot hole, everyone believes he’s dead, and I don’t think these films ever made him out to be Tony Stark level of famous. Most people that actually would have stopped to notice him would probably think he looks just like Bruce Wayne

Gotham's most rich and famous son hoarding around Italy and no-one recognises him? Especially all that had happened to Gotham?

Not sure what you mean by this. What does he have to do with TDKR’s plot?

He knew Bruce was Batman in the previous movie (and not by his smile) and went into hiding because Joker put a hit on him so why did he not come forward here and demand that Batman/Bruce come forward? After all 8 years had passed and the Joker wasn't around no more. Nolan simply dropped the character to suit his plot.

Hey I really enjoyed TDKR but there are some glaring plot holes that Nolan should have addressed or tackled and yes all movies are subject to debates but here we are talking about TDKR.

 

[Jameson Rook]

Regarding TDKR, I really don't want to add fuel to the fire (pun intended), but:





And DON"T EVEN START with Ralph Garman's legendary rant on Kevin Smith's Fatman on Batman. Dude must have slit his own wrists after that.

 

[pturtle]

@pturtle -

How is this a plot hole? Maybe some convenient writing, which every superhero movie suffers from, but I wouldn’t call this a plot hole.

Yeah but the plot here was written in that we were to believe that the CIA would just take a gamble on picking up this international terrorist and not do that simplest of tasks and remove his mask first.

His back was broken, and while he might have recovered a bit quickly, I don’t see how this is a plot hole. Again it probably could have been written a bit better

They should not have done the broken bat (physical) here in the movie and should have went with the 'Bane had destroyed Gotham thus breaking what Batman vowed would never happen' angle and also the movie is not long enough to tell the story of a man recovering from this horrific injury unless Nolan wrote that he was in the Pit for as long as he was in his house between the TDK and this movie which he did not. How the hell does he recover from that in a Pit anyways?

In Batman Begins shows he knows how to get around, he’s Batman for god sakes, I don’t how him finding away back into Gotham is that unbelievable



He is Btamn not Houdini. Why did Nolan not show him arriving back in Gotham or have him telling the Cat how he did it? Because Nolan knew that he couldn't. Perhaps he used the Tube like Kilmer in Forever to get around.

Again, I wouldn’t call this a plot hole, everyone believes he’s dead, and I don’t think these films ever made him out to be Tony Stark level of famous. Most people that actually would have stopped to notice him would probably think he looks just like Bruce Wayne

Gotham's most rich and famous son hoarding around Italy and no-one recognises him? Especially all that had happened to Gotham?

Not sure what you mean by this. What does he have to do with TDKR’s plot?

He knew Bruce was Batman in the previous movie (and not by his smile) and went into hiding because Joker put a hit on him so why did he not come forward here and demand that Batman/Bruce come forward? After all 8 years had passed and the Joker wasn't around no more. Nolan simply dropped the character to suit his plot.

Hey I really enjoyed TDKR but here are some glaring plot holes that Nolan should have addressed or tackled and yes all movies are subject to debates but here we are talking about TDKR.

Well, I’ll have to agree to disagree with you on most of that, none of those complaints seem like a big problem (for me at least), other superhero movies have much worse. I don’t see how the viewer knowing how Batman got back into Gotham strengthens the plot, and about Reese, maybe he was grateful that Bruce/Batman saved him, what would he get out of exposing Bruce later on?

I think the movie does have a few problems, most of it coming from John Blake’s character, these complaints I wouldn’t really call problems. Thats just my opinion though, on here most people treat this movie as if it was Spiderman 3 and X-Men 3 bad.

 

[Collectorcol]

Batman Begins is the only one I really enjoyed.
Heath Ledger was awsome as the Joker but didn't like that movie.

 

[Sidious-66]

I remember reading that Burton didn't like the idea of doing sequels and would only do it by conceiving it as a completely separate entity.

I see.

There could be some truth to that.

Well, I’ll have to agree to disagree with you on most of that, none of those complaints seem like a big problem (for me at least), other superhero movies have much worse. I don’t see how the viewer knowing how Batman got back into Gotham strengthens the plot, and about Reese, maybe he was grateful that Bruce/Batman saved him, what would he get out of exposing Bruce later on?

I think the movie does have a few problems, most of it coming from John Blake’s character, these complaints I wouldn’t really call problems. Thats just my opinion though, on here most people treat this movie as if it was Spiderman 3 and X-Men 3 bad.

It is all good pal. Like I say I really enjoyed the movie and we can rip and shred apart every movie that has ever been made to make a claim or disagree but at the end of the day they are just movies and made for our entertainment.

It is just that the context of the conversation was regarding TDKR plot holes.